Call Me Caitlin wrote:

Is there any reason you need to be so snarky to me?

Sigh..
Why do you assume negative?
I recommend to dig a little inside of yourself, away from MM.
The sooner you do, the better you will feel.

Rick OBanion Photo wrote:
Here a fob is a keychain.

Same here.

Call Me Caitlin wrote:
Last week there was this photographer who wanted to work with me, and after learning that I'm half Asian half white, he wanted to make me look even more Asian, a "FOB" or "fresh off the boat".

Obviously, I'm not working with said photographer, but has anyone encountered anything similar?

FOB is a racist term.

Call Me Caitlin wrote:

I still thought it was pretty rude... there are other terms or adjectives to use rather then "FOB".

Rude is different.  Whenever I think someone has been rude to me I assume it's my fault and I'm just being too sensitive.

VikyL wrote:
telling a person of Asian descent that you want to portray them as an FOB is like telling a black model that you want to do a shoot of them with watermelon and fried chicken and grape drink.

Bingo! Precisely my thoughts. The photographer may not have set out to be racist but it sounds like the shoot he was planning was going to perpetuate racial stereotypes. Maybe that's the brief he was set by the client, but still, not something I would want to be involved with.

de0rbit wrote:

Ever try that?

I tried to do something like that with two models of Asian descent and in each case I got something like, "Oh, you want me to do something with an Asian theme because I'm Asian? Not very original."

An "Asian theme" is different from physically playing up ethnic features such as: highlighting a models eyes through make-up, or not having a stylist straighten a model's hair.  Any kind of ethnic theme can run the risk of becoming derogatory if not handled carefully.  Even if handled perfectly, a model still has a right to turn down any job for any reason.

Babalon Salome wrote:
"Oriental" is a racial slur? Really? In German it isn't. It means "from the Orient". It's like saying "European" about people from Europe.

Is it offensive to you if I ask whether Germans are the best judge of racial sensitivity?

Call Me Caitlin wrote:
Last week there was this photographer who wanted to work with me, and after learning that I'm half Asian half white, he wanted to make me look even more Asian, a "FOB" or "fresh off the boat".

Obviously, I'm not working with said photographer, but has anyone encountered anything similar?

Actually..I'm not surprised by some of the reply's so far. Typical of people who don't understand or care about the significance of language like that. Usually from people who aren't of an ethnic background. Minimize the language and tell you that you are being too sensitive.

That said, The idiot might have said that to you out of pure ignorance. My wife is Asian...my parents referred to her as an "oriental" when I introduced her at the house...you could have heard a pin drop. However, my parents are a few generations back where that was the descriptive term commonly used. They smartened up fast.

Art of the nude wrote:

Same here.

I guess we have different words for different things and they mean different things to different people.

Vindictive Images wrote:

Is it offensive to you if I ask whether Germans are the best judge of racial sensitivity?

I think it was a genuine question, and if so, the remark about Germans was uncalled for.

CHAD ALAN wrote:
I think it was a genuine question, and if so, the remark about Germans was uncalled for.

I called it and I wanted to make the irony intentional.

VikyL wrote:

An "Asian theme" is different from physically playing up ethnic features such as: highlighting a models eyes through make-up, or not having a stylist straighten a model's hair.  Any kind of ethnic theme can run the risk of becoming derogatory if not handled carefully.  Even if handled perfectly, a model still has a right to turn down any job for any reason.

I gave up on trying to make those points in this thread due to lack of interest on everyone else's part.

Maybe I'll start a new thread.

Or maybe not.

Call Me Caitlin wrote:
a FOB is considered a racist term, though.

no, its not.
its just a term although its not usually used in a nice way.
I hear it all the time, mostly used by Asian people.

That photographer could've used another descriptive word, or been more sensitive.

Is the photographer Asian?

Call Me Caitlin wrote:

I guess I don't really want to be portrayed as an Asian or a white person. I'd rather be ... me.

I'm just a lil offended that he used that term, when he could've used different adjectives and terms to describe how he wanted a specific look.

You are unique, and very beautiful.  I can understand your feelings of being somewhat offended.  My family looks like the United Nations, and I affectionately call myself a "mutt" ... but the Irish shows most in what people see of me.  However, I don't believe the photographer meant any offense. 

When photographers talk about "looks" ... in particular "ethnic looks" then they are likely going for a certain style in that image.  But remember that as a model, you are portraying characters.  No matter what "look" a photographer is shooting for, you will always be "You!"   Images are one dimensional.  Who you are inside is just that!  If your feelings are hurt by something someone said, you can choose not to work with that person, OR you can (as Ken put it) put on your big girl pants and deal with it.   

So many people are multi-ethnic in the Bay Area, and that is what I love about people!  We are all one people!  I love the diversity of the people and cultures in the Bay Area very much!  That photographer could have perhaps expressed himself better in explaining the look he desired.   I don't think he meant any offense by it.

Paolo Diavolo wrote:

no, its not.
its just a term although its not usually used in a nice way.
that photographer could've used another descriptive word, or been more sensitive.

Why is it your choice to decide if its racist or not?   I'm not Asian are you?   If you aren't then maybe it isn't for you.   The key is.   The person saying it might not understand or know how some people might see that term.   Several months ago a politician used the word wetback.   Some non Hispanic and Mexican people didn't get why it was a big deal.

John Jebbia wrote:
The girl in my avatar - yes... the one picking her nose had a statement to the effect of, "I will not pose for ethnic Asian themes". when I first met her. When we were shooting, I asked her why she had that on there. She said because she kept getting offers for that type of shoot. I said, use what your qualities to your advantage. She thought about it, and agreed. She changed the statement to, "I will model ethnic Asian themes for paid shoots only."... or something to that effect. And she started getting hired for that stuff!

The point is, if you have a unique quality that's somewhat a rarity, use it. Make that money..

Imagine if, if you will, if actors and actresses refused to take on controversial roles.. We'd have no Schindler's List, Mississippi Burning, American History X, etc, etc, etc..

I'm seeing Daniel Day-Lewis as Malcolm X
but without bronzer

Will_DB wrote:
One thing I really don't understand - fob is surely about how you behave, rather than how you look. How do you *look* fob?

I'm wondering that too.

Chuckarelei wrote:
The guy on the far right was specifically cast as a fob asian look:

Did anyone ever think that was racist?

Can you explain to me the difference between a FOB asian and a non-FOB asian and why you used Bruce Lee as an example of the FOB look when he first landed in America straight from his mother's womb?

LUNA_PHOTOGRAPHY  wrote:

Sounds like you might have "Racial Paranoia". It is in epidemic proportions since Obama took office and he along with the liberal media have been pumping a race war which is dividing this country.

Read this http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/col … orm-racism
And look up the term "white privilage" from an academic source.

Echo_ wrote:

Read this http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/col … orm-racism
And look up the term "white privilage" from an academic source.

Fotografica Gregor wrote:
political correctness will be the death of a civil society with individual liberty -

actual racist or sexist or homophobic behavior is one thing -  word policing is something else altogether...

Same as above, racism is not separate from the words we use, there are racial connotations in terms like the one listed that can not be ignored. The fact that people see it as word policing is a reflection of the two ideologies that I said above...

LUNA_PHOTOGRAPHY  wrote:
Sounds like you might have "Racial Paranoia". It is in epidemic proportions since Obama took office and he along with the liberal media have been pumping a race war which is dividing this country.

Sounds like you're citing pop psychology garbage mixed with some stupidity. Conservatives don't need your advocating for their political positions.

Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
If you want to get technical about it . . .

"Oriental" is NOT "Asian"

The Orient is Turkey . . . and Turkey is NOT in Asia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orient

Turkey is in Asia...

FootNote Fotography wrote:

Wait, no joke, calling someone oriental is racist?

Oriental is used to describe things (furniture, art, etc). It is frowned upon when used to describe people.

Call Me Caitlin wrote:
I've only heard it used to describe people of Asian descent.

Are you serious?

What about Italians?

My grandmother came to America fresh off the boat from Milan. I think it's cool. They used to do that in the day.

Magic Forests wrote:
I would never work with a photographer who wanted to shoot something "Oriental" because it is out of my comfort zone.

That implies that our culture is not beautiful, proud and worthy of being a conceptual idea...and that it's a silly thing to shoot a geisha with an umbrella, if the model is asian.

If the concept is good and the intention is pure, it's ok for an asian to be portrayed as an asian, in whatever sense right?

Jules NYC wrote:

Are you serious?

What about Italians?

My grandmother came to America fresh off the boat from Milian. I think it's cool. They used to do that in the day.

CHAD ALAN wrote: