This thread was locked on 2013-07-25 18:47:29
Forums > Off-Topic Discussion > racist comments from a photographer

Photographer

John Alan Photography

Posts: 56

Garwood, New Jersey, US

IMHO what is considered racist or offensive in general is a personal thing. The OP thought it was racist or took offense to the comment. Now maybe it's a matter of semantics in this case. Agencies, photographers, clients and everyone in between ask for specific features in models all the time. So here, I don't think it makes this guy racist if he wanted a more or "full asian" looking model.

Being black has taught me not everyone who opens their mouths is smart. It just means they know how to speak. I hear things that I find offensive that other blacks do not. The same applies for the three races, ethnic and religious groups too I'd imagine. I find humor in things about "my people" and other groups too. I try to be respectful and sensitive to others boundaries. The few times I have offended people I apologized, explain myself and tried to move on from that point.

Race is still an issue in the U.S., and always will be, due to the fact 'we' don't have enough open and honest discussions about it.

Jul 25 13 06:36 pm Link

Photographer

Kincaid Blackwood

Posts: 23492

Los Angeles, California, US

Images by MR wrote:
By who?

By her, obviously.


I mean, while you can moderate the way in which you respond to some things, you can't always control what gets under your skin. Sometimes the connotations that those on the receiving end get out of a term run significantly deeper than those using the term. In which case, one party unwittingly offends another. Which seems to be the case here but I won't begrudge her her reaction.

Jul 25 13 06:36 pm Link

Model

JessiKaos

Posts: 20

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

being from the UK i've never heard the term 'fresh off the boat'. and yes i was shocked when i read that someone referred to you as such; the term implies that you are an immigrant or an asylum seeker etc, as opposed to born here. its a derogatory term. What otherwise does 'FOB' mean? that you've been travelling for long hours? that you don't have many clothes? im sorry if i am being ignorant for having not heard the term, but having never heard it before thats exactly what it sounded like. It may be being sensitive to take offense to racial slurs, if someone had used the term 'fresh out of the cotton fields' to a black person, im pretty sure that would raise some eyebrows. How about 'fresh out of the kitchen' to describe a woman?
That said, i wouldnt let it affect a shoot; having worked with a lot of different people of all ages, you can't expect every single person you come across to describe things gracefully; a very good friend of mine in this industry likes to describe arabs as Turbans. Whilst I dislike the terminology, I put it down to our differences as people, which give us a lot more interesting things to talk about when we shoot. If it genuinely make you feel uncomfortable, say something, and if it doesn't stop, move on. It may well be offensive to you but at the end of the day you have to decide whether your dignity or your wallet should suffer more.

Jul 25 13 06:38 pm Link

Model

90s sub pop records

Posts: 609

Livermore, California, US

Jules NYC wrote:

Are you serious?

What about Italians?

My grandmother came to America fresh off the boat from Milan. I think it's cool. They used to do that in the day.

Yes, I'm serious. I've only heard the term FOB to describe people of Asian descent.

Jul 25 13 06:38 pm Link

Photographer

Instinct Images

Posts: 23162

San Diego, California, US

Call Me Caitlin wrote:
a FOB is considered a racist term, though.

It's funny how some Filipinos consider FOB to be racist while others don't. One of my friends is from the Philippines and she calls herself a FOB. She doesn't understand why some are so offended by it. I rarely, if ever, hear the term from anyone other than Filipinos.

I grew up in a neighborhood with a lot of Filipinos and they called other Filipinos FOBs all the time. It just meant a new immigrant, someone that still wasn't fully familiar with life in the US and/or didn't speak English that well.

Unlike most racist terms it applied to only some Filipinos not all because it was a reference to how long they had been in the US.

All that said I can understand how some feel it's insulting or demeaning.

Urban Dictionary definition:

Fresh off boat - refer to foreign born Asians who do not speak English well or speak English with accent. A popular derogatory term most commonly used by US-born Asians who look down on Asians who weren't born in the US.

The opposite is a "white-washed" Asian. Someone that doesn't speak with an accent and, to some, have abandoned their heritage.

Jul 25 13 06:38 pm Link

Photographer

Cosplay Creatives

Posts: 10714

Syowa - permanent station of Japan, Sector claimed by Norway, Antarctica

Being asian myself, I'd feel somewhat offended by it, but by no means something I would just turn down as a result.

Sometimes it's something I'd just blow off.

Jul 25 13 06:39 pm Link

Photographer

Vindictive Images

Posts: 584

Houston, Texas, US

Jules NYC wrote:
Are you serious?

What about Italians?

My grandmother came to America fresh off the boat from Milan. I think it's cool. They used to do that in the day.

To be fair though, she's in the bay area where the Italy-US immigration pipeline is not as strong as to say NYC and too young to see that pipeline flowing.

Jul 25 13 06:39 pm Link

Model

Fifi

Posts: 58134

Gainesville, Florida, US

You gotta love White people telling ethnic minorities what they should and shouldn't find offensive/racist.

I just... I can't anymore... you guys are too much. lol

Jul 25 13 06:40 pm Link

Photographer

Arizona Shoots

Posts: 28701

Phoenix, Arizona, US

Gryph wrote:
Being asian myself, I'd feel somewhat offended by it, but by no means something I would just turn down as a result.

Sometimes it's something I'd just blow off.

You're Guatemalan.

Jul 25 13 06:40 pm Link

Photographer

Cosplay Creatives

Posts: 10714

Syowa - permanent station of Japan, Sector claimed by Norway, Antarctica

Instinct Images wrote:

It's funny some consider FOB to be racist while others don't. One of my friends is from the Philippines and she calls herself a FOB. She doesn't understand why some are so offended by it. I grew up in a neighborhood with a lot of Filipinos and they called other Filipinos FOBs all the time. It just meant a new immigrant, someone that still wasn't fully familiar with life in the US and/or didn't speak English that well.

Unlike most racist terms it applied to only some Filipinos not all because it was a reference to how long they had been in the US.

All that said I can understand how some feel it's insulting or demeaning.

It is dependent upon the person who identifies as being one and having such definitions, but for others that are mixed, it is not a nice thing to say.

Jul 25 13 06:40 pm Link

Photographer

Paolo D Photography

Posts: 11502

San Francisco, California, US

https://www.omgsoysauce.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/fob-asian-lady-mother-funny.jpg

Jul 25 13 06:41 pm Link

Photographer

Cosplay Creatives

Posts: 10714

Syowa - permanent station of Japan, Sector claimed by Norway, Antarctica

John Jebbia wrote:

You're Guatemalan.

Jerkface!  I'm gonna spray my Kimchi juices in your eyes when you go to bed.

Jul 25 13 06:41 pm Link

Photographer

MerrillMedia

Posts: 8736

New Orleans, Louisiana, US

I am a white photographer who has shot black models almost exclusively. My port is all black women. I don't seem to generate much interest from caucasian models.

Maybe they think I'm black. Maybe they have a problem with white guys shooting women of color. Maybe its because my profile is pretty hard nosed in some ways.

I don't know and most of the time, I really don't care. I haven't been shooting for a while, but when I get back to it, brown women will do very well, TYVM.

Jul 25 13 06:41 pm Link

Artist/Painter

Augustine

Posts: 1153

Los Angeles, California, US

Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
If you want to get technical about it . . .

"Oriental" is NOT "Asian"

The Orient is Turkey . . . and Turkey is NOT in Asia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orient

JESUS Photography wrote:
Turkey is in Asia...

big_smile

Jul 25 13 06:43 pm Link

Model

Jules NYC

Posts: 21617

New York, New York, US

Vindictive Images wrote:

To be fair though, she's in the bay area where the Italy-US immigration pipeline is not strong as to say NYC and too young to see that pipeline flowing.

There are history books.

I lived in San Francisco and got my BA from there.

Jul 25 13 06:43 pm Link

Photographer

Chuckarelei

Posts: 11271

Seattle, Washington, US

This has become an interesting discussion between real life intended racism and/or real life honest intention that marked as racism.

This character has been millions of boys and men around the world drooling over. A Chinese spy Ada Wong in the Resident Evil 4 video game:
https://www.technobuffalo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/tumblr_m81xvpeQNr1roezlpo1_500.jpg

Look at the physical features, nothing resembles an average Chinese female. Everything looks and feels like a caucasian female with a chinese name stuck to her. Some took it as racism toward the Asians. But go figure, it was by Capcom, a Japanese company.

Then when Hollywood made the Resident Evil movies, I guess they went against Capcom's philosophy. They cast Li as the character:
https://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2013/05/ada-wong-li-bingbing-resident-evil-retribution-gun.jpg

https://www.critiques4geeks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Resident-Evil-5-Milla-Jovovich-Ada-Wong-Bingbing-Li.jpg

What do you know? Many also cried racism as a short and unattractive Asian women being portrayed.

Well, I bet neither the game nor the film makers had racism in mind. I think it's the people that read too much about racism.

Jul 25 13 06:44 pm Link

Model

Magic Forests

Posts: 530

New York, New York, US

Gryph wrote:

Jerkface!  I'm gonna spray my Kimchi juices in your eyes when you go to bed.

It's not legit unless you ferment the kimchi at home.

Jul 25 13 06:44 pm Link

Photographer

ChadAlan

Posts: 4254

Los Angeles, California, US

Paolo Diavolo wrote:
https://www.omgsoysauce.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/fob-asian-lady-mother-funny.jpg

Man, I was gonna get one of those things too.
Oh well.

Jul 25 13 06:45 pm Link

Model

Jules NYC

Posts: 21617

New York, New York, US

Call Me Caitlin wrote:
Yes, I'm serious. I've only heard the term FOB to describe people of Asian descent.

I've heard it quite a bit when I'm being ribbed...

and I laugh.

Jul 25 13 06:45 pm Link

Photographer

Cosplay Creatives

Posts: 10714

Syowa - permanent station of Japan, Sector claimed by Norway, Antarctica

Magic Forests wrote:
It's not legit unless you ferment the kimchi at home.

Oh it's been fermenting alright.  Just he waits.  big_smile lol

Fermented, yet fresh from the tap tongue

Jul 25 13 06:46 pm Link

Photographer

Kincaid Blackwood

Posts: 23492

Los Angeles, California, US

Babalon Salome wrote:
"Oriental" is a racial slur? Really? In German it isn't. It means "from the Orient". It's like saying "European" about people from Europe.

It's not like that, actually.

Saying European about people from Europe is like saying Asian for people from Asia. Or African for people from Africa. Referring to someone as "Oriental" is the equivalent of saying someone's a "Westerner."

Jul 25 13 06:46 pm Link

Photographer

Vindictive Images

Posts: 584

Houston, Texas, US

Jules NYC wrote:
There are history books.

She's expressing her experiences and her experiences do not include those history books. It does not invalidate her current experience of the term.

Jul 25 13 06:47 pm Link