Justin wrote:
America has always been great based on its founding principles...

The principals that you can build a very wealthy society by using stolen labour to build on stolen land ... and when you’ve run out of things to steal locally, start a war and steal from somewhere else?

aPeaceOfAdam wrote:
The principals that you can build a very wealthy society by using stolen labour to build on stolen land ... and when you’ve run out of things to steal locally, start a war and steal from somewhere else?

Yes, it is the British model.  It has been replicated all over the world by British people, including in their homeland.  It has been copied by other European powers and warlords around the world.  The British and Spanish imported genocide to other lands, more than others.  The British introduced slavery to these shores and profited immensely.  The US is the one to change the arrangement by freeing themselves of the shackles the British used on their inferior classes such as colonist, sent to new shores to build the royal treasury.  The US has obviously enjoyed a great deal of success and lead other nations to enjoy freedom.  The US still needs to make improvements, and shackling groups into the British model of lower classes is one of those problems, but the arrogance of a person from another British colony, which has succeeded through the use of all of the ills for which he criticizes the US, and who enjoys his own freedom from the shedding of American blood, is laughable.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:

Yes, it is the British model.  It has been replicated all over the world by British people, including in their homeland.  It has been copied by other European powers and warlords around the world.  The British and Spanish imported genocide to other lands, more than others.  The British introduced slavery to these shores and profited immensely.  The US is the one to change the arrangement by freeing themselves of the shackles the British used on their inferior classes such as colonist, sent to new shores to build the royal treasury.  The US has obviously enjoyed a great deal of success and lead other nations to enjoy freedom.  The US still needs to make improvements, and shackling groups into the British model of lower classes is one of those problems, but the arrogance of a person from another British colony, which has succeeded through the use of all of the ills for which he criticizes the US, and who enjoys his own freedom from the shedding of American blood, is laughable.

Hunter, On this we can agree.

Lisa Everhart wrote:

Hunter, On this we can agree.

We don't disagree on the basics, only some nuances.

billy badfinger wrote:
Of the 3 primary "Superpowers"...China IS the best candidate:)
The most progressive...Infrastucture projects that put the US and Russia to shame!
The least aggressive...Don't really seem interested in forcing regime changes like the US and Russia!
Best understanding of Economics as a tool for power...less interested in blowing shit up than the US or Russia!
By 2030 China will essentially control the economic destiny of EVERYTHING between the Eastern Atlantic and Western Pacific....
And they prob won't kill/murder that many people in the process...
Please don't be nationalistic to the point where U become blind...that's just sad to me:((

crx studios wrote:
Well it is amazing how efficient a government can be when they don’t have to worry about petty details like free speech, free elections, free press, free thought, free association, unrestricted access to the internet, public dissent, basic democratic institutions, women’s rights, minority rights, due process, religious freedom, intellectual property rights, pollution, environmental issues, the rights of Tibetans, etc.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor … 70717.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_evictions_in_China
https://www.hrw.org/news/2008/08/22/chi … hts-abuses

considering the news censorship and government control of what can be seen and reported most of the abuses are under-reported. the internal corruption problem is huge. the government is amassing huge amounts of money and the influence in south america, africa and other countries are being bought out. while some of the people are being "bought out" but the economic boom, others are being sidelined, displaced and trampled over. considering how many were killed by mao's rule, a few millions killed is hardly considered to be "many".

Hunter  GWPB wrote:

Yes, it is the British model.  It has been replicated all over the world by British people, including in their homeland.  It has been copied by other European powers and warlords around the world.  The British and Spanish imported genocide to other lands, more than others.  The British introduced slavery to these shores and profited immensely.  The US is the one to change the arrangement by freeing themselves of the shackles the British used on their inferior classes such as colonist, sent to new shores to build the royal treasury.  The US has obviously enjoyed a great deal of success and lead other nations to enjoy freedom.  The US still needs to make improvements, and shackling groups into the British model of lower classes is one of those problems, but the arrogance of a person from another British colony, which has succeeded through the use of all of the ills for which he criticizes the US, and who enjoys his own freedom from the shedding of American blood, is laughable.

Yeah. Tell that to the Sioux, Cherokee or Apache.

Leonard Gee Photography wrote:
"least aggressive" is a relative term. tibet, the coastal islands are now, eyes are on taiwan and parts of india. like russia, china has a long term expansionist and world wide domination view. it is by no means a non-aggressor. you only need to look at the history to see what the true intentions are.

if you look at the treatment of prisoners both criminal, economic and political, it is in humane. the children problems caused by the one-child rule are still causing cultural and population issues.

the cost of outsiders doing business is that china wants the technology, tools and the expertise to dominate the world markets. the rest of the world is being bought out to gain access to china's markets.

You think the USA is going to give Texas and California back?

Virtual Studio wrote:
You think the USA is going to give Texas and California back?

don't forget the black hills.

but then we could be all british too. but mostly the chest pounding is silly. for the most part, some parts of america have been improved and it's ideas have been a good thing; when the precepts were actually followed. you gain more by doing than empty boasting and trying to convince with meaningless words.

Virtual Studio wrote:
Yeah. Tell that to the Sioux, Cherokee or Apache.

How about the Iroquois, Delaware, and other members of the seven nations?  The Shawnee and Powhatan and other tribes of Virginia and the southern coastal plain and Appalachia?  You conveniently forget about the extermination and enslavement of the Beothuk (the last known of whom died as an English slave) and other peoples of Newfoundland, New Brunswick and other lands stolen from Native people and now part of Canada.  It doesn't change what I said.  The process started with the Europeans that came to these continents, long before the political ideals of what is now known as The United States of America.  The English started the Indian wars.  Did the English and French, somehow, manage to pry the lands of Canada away from the native people without blood shed or through contamination with small pox and other diseases?  Are you going to sit there and claim that the English of the Northern Colonies were somehow more righteous than the English across the Saint Lawrence?  Wait, no, Canada is on both sides of that divide, so the line of moral superiority coincides with a line on a map?  The Spanish took Florida, South America and Central America without firing a shot?

A change in the political affiliation of the colonies didn't bring a change in the morals.  The people were who they were.  You came from people that subjected the Scots, Welsh, and Irish to genocide.  Do Canadians think they are blameless because the genocide of natives in Canada was on a different scale?  Some of you are descendants from the Americans that remained loyal to the crown and fled to the safety of the North.  The genocide from the original 13 and the associated territories continues to represent blood on their children's hands.  Do you think that Canadians have no responsibility for the scorched earth tactics that the Hudson Bay Company employed?  Is there no responsibility for the English and French governments and people when they brought the indigenous tribes into wars against the colonists and then left them hanging?  What would the Canadian history be if the far interiors and frozen reaches of your country had been hospitable enough for white immigration? 

I could absolve myself of these things by claiming that my father's grandparents came here from another nation, before the first world war and after the Indian wars, and, therefore, I do not have that blood on my hands.  Unfortunately, I cannot know if some despicable English man had sullied my blood line somewhere along the way.  However, there are branches of my family roots that extend to our time as subjects of the King, in this land, even though we were fortunate enough to not be English.  Also, as an American, I have to accept the good and the bad of our history.  I also need to have some perspective.  I may view things that happened in history as a disgrace per our current perspective, but times were different.  When my great grand children get old enough to vote, they may view the current times as a disgrace.  What matters to me, is how we move forward.  I cannot set right the wrongs of the past, I can only modify my actions to not replicate them.  You on the other hand, who has made his anti-American feelings well known, want to stand in judgement, anchored upon the ground made bloody by our common ancestors, and as we continue to stand beside each other and fight foreign wars, spilling more blood.  You have no righteousness that is greater than that of any other nation.  The English brought the Opium wars to China because they couldn't provide the Chinese with any trade goods they wanted.  What did the English do to India, the middle east, Africa?  What inhabited lands did the English enter where there were no atrocities against the native people?  Look at you!  You want to berate us into giving land back to the Spanish?  What about the people the Spanish took it from? And this political realignment is to happen without regards to the will of the people who live there?  For millennium, the land belonged to the people who occupied it.  If they were not strong enough to keep it, someone else replaced them or assimilated with them.  Every where in the world this was (is) true, including in the Americas where Native people fought Native people for land, possessions and resources, and you want us to have a guilt complex because of the actions of your ancestors, while you stand in false pride?

Hunter  GWPB wrote:

How about the Iroquois, Delaware, and other members of the seven nations?  The Shawnee and Powhatan and other tribes of Virginia and the southern coastal plain and Appalachia?  You conveniently forget about the extermination and enslavement of the Beothuk (the last known of whom died as an English slave) and other peoples of Newfoundland, New Brunswick and other lands stolen from Native people and now part of Canada.  It doesn't change what I said.  The process started with the Europeans that came to these continents, long before the political ideals of what is now known as The United States of America.  The English started the Indian wars.  Did the English and French, somehow, manage to pry the lands of Canada away from the native people without blood shed or through contamination with small pox and other diseases?  Are you going to sit there and claim that the English of the Northern Colonies were somehow more righteous than the English across the Saint Lawrence?  Wait, no, Canada is on both sides of that divide, so the line of moral superiority coincides with a line on a map?  The Spanish took Florida, South America and Central America without firing a shot?

A change in the political affiliation of the colonies didn't bring a change in the morals.  The people were who they were.  You came from people that subjected the Scots, Welsh, and Irish to genocide.  Do Canadians think they are blameless because the genocide of natives in Canada was on a different scale?  Some of you are descendants from the Americans that remained loyal to the crown and fled to the safety of the North.  The genocide from the original 13 and the associated territories continues to represent blood on their children's hands.  Do you think that Canadians have no responsibility for the scorched earth tactics that the Hudson Bay Company employed?  Is there no responsibility for the English and French governments and people when they brought the indigenous tribes into wars against the colonists and then left them hanging?  What would the Canadian history be if the far interiors and frozen reaches of your country had been hospitable enough for white immigration? 

I could absolve myself of these things by claiming that my father's grandparents came here from another nation, before the first world war and after the Indian wars, and, therefore, I do not have that blood on my hands.  Unfortunately, I cannot know if some despicable English man had sullied my blood line somewhere along the way.  However, there are branches of my family roots that extend to our time as subjects of the King, in this land, even though we were fortunate enough to not be English.  Also, as an American, I have to accept the good and the bad of our history.  I also need to have some perspective.  I may view things that happened in history as a disgrace per our current perspective, but times were different.  When my great grand children get old enough to vote, they may view the current times as a disgrace.  What matters to me, is how we move forward.  I cannot set right the wrongs of the past, I can only modify my actions to not replicate them.  You on the other hand, who has made his anti-American feelings well known, want to stand in judgement, anchored upon the ground made bloody by our common ancestors, and as we continue to stand beside each other and fight foreign wars, spilling more blood.  You have no righteousness that is greater than that of any other nation.  The English brought the Opium wars to China because they couldn't provide the Chinese with any trade goods they wanted.  What did the English do to India, the middle east, Africa?  What inhabited lands did the English enter where there were no atrocities against the native people?  Look at you!  You want to berate us into giving land back to the Spanish?  What about the people the Spanish took it from? And this political realignment is to happen without regards to the will of the people who live there?  For millennium, the land belonged to the people who occupied it.  If they were not strong enough to keep it, someone else replaced them or assimilated with them.  Every where in the world this was (is) true, including in the Americas where Native people fought Native people for land, possessions and resources, and you want us to have a guilt complex because of the actions of your ancestors, while you stand in false pride?

Yes. But we don't keep on and on and on and on and on and on telling people how great we are.. big difference.

Justin wrote:
America has always been great based on its founding principles...

aPeaceOfAdam wrote:
The principals that you can build a very wealthy society by using stolen labour to build on stolen land ... and when you’ve run out of things to steal locally, start a war and steal from somewhere else?

Please name when and where the US has started a war and stolen from another country.

Virtual Studio wrote:
You think the USA is going to give Texas and California back?

Mexico gave land in Texas to settlers, then decided to change the rules.  The Texans decided to defend themselves and keep what was already theirs.

ernst tischler wrote:
Please name when and where the US has started a war and stolen from another country.

So, do you want wars they’ve actually started like Iraq (oil) or are you happy with the list of authoritarian regimes they’be propped up that then went on to commit atrocities?  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of … ted_States

Hunter  GWPB wrote:
The US is the one to change the arrangement by freeing themselves of the shackles etc etc

You forgot the word “white” from that whole freedom rant.  They freed the white citizens from British oppression while continuing to oppress how many different races over the years?

And, since when did you save Australia?  You sat on the sidelines of ww2 until your fleets were directly threatened (typical American - show up late and claim they did all the work) and as for the other wars you conscripted our citizens into well, we could have done just fine without OUR blood spilled in service of your Vietnam shambles.

ernst tischler wrote:

Mexico gave land in Texas to settlers, then decided to change the rules.  The Texans decided to defend themselves and keep what was already theirs.

Wow that is some revisionist views right there.

Mexico allowed settlement, but that’s a lot different to GIVING away the territory!

Can you imagine if a bunch of American immigrants banded together and said “oh, this area is a new country now by the way”

ernst tischler wrote:
Please name when and where the US has started a war and stolen from another country.

aPeaceOfAdam wrote:
So, do you want wars they’ve actually started like Iraq (oil) or are you happy with the list of authoritarian regimes they’be propped up that then went on to commit atrocities?  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of … ted_States

Please name a "nation" with any history at all who hasnt "started a war and stolen from another country".

Again, context is everything. It is easy to pick ANY point in history, and point out how barbaric it was. No people, no nation can withstand that kind of "no context" criticism.  The real history of a nation cant be boiled down to single events or actions.

We all agree the Nazi regime was deplorable, but I imagine its defenders could find some isolated, out of context, seemingly positive aspect. That out of context event cant give an accurate view-- that takes a longer view, of many events, in both the context of the times and the context of a modern perspective.

The US is far from perfect. We have made huge mistakes, even repeating some. But, we are trying.

ernst tischler wrote:
Please name when and where the US has started a war and stolen from another country.

The wars with Mexico where California, Arizona, New Mexco were taken.

The hostile conquest of Hawaii.

Conquest and occupation of the Philippines.

Virtual Studio wrote:
The wars with Mexico where California, Arizona, New Mexco were taken.

The hostile conquest of Hawaii.

Conquest and occupation of the Philippines.

How did you guys get Canada? Did you win it in a friendly poker game?

Virtual Studio wrote:
Yes. But we don't keep on and on and on and on and on and on telling people how great we are.. big difference.

Arrogance is arrogance.  You may think you do not spout off about how great your country is (you do from time to time), and you certainly let us know how we have failed.  You personally, anyway.  Your comments, which I quoted for the previous post, is not the first time you have used that ploy.  It is funny how you want to remind us of your perception of our shortcomings of our country, but you never mention the horrors committed by your people, and the extermination and abuses of the Natives in your country.  That makes your posts rather dishonest and disingenuous.  You are no better than we are, and one can argue you are far worse.  I have seen you say that the English have a clear conscience except for the matter of the Australian Aborigines.  What a crock.  Not only are there many others, but how do you have a clear conscience because you committed just one genocide?   Continent wide, wasn’t it? 

If you note, there are varying degrees of nationalism being displayed in this thread.  I hardly think it appropriate for you to lump us all together as a people of a common mind.  However, this is just one more example of your anti-American bias and your method of elevating yourself by belittling others.  For some of us, our “greatness” is dependent on us being the best we can be.  That does not mean we will abandon our principles or our love for our country, because we haven’t obtained the highest standard.

Lightcraft Studio wrote:

How did you guys get Canada? Did you win it in a friendly poker game?

See above:

"Yes. But we don't keep on and on and on and on and on and on telling people how great we are.. big difference."

Hunter  GWPB wrote:

Arrogance is arrogance.  You may think you do not spout off about how great your country is (you do from time to time), and you certainly let us know how we have failed.  You personally, anyway.  Your comments, which I quoted for the previous post, is not the first time you have used that ploy.  It is funny how you want to remind us of your perception of our shortcomings of our country, but you never mention the horrors committed by your people, and the extermination and abuses of the Natives in your country.  That makes your posts rather dishonest and disingenuous.  You are no better than we are, and one can argue you are far worse.  I have seen you say that the English have a clear conscience except for the matter of the Australian Aborigines.  What a crock.  Not only are there many others, but how do you have a clear conscience because you committed just one genocide?   Continent wide, wasn’t it? 

If you note, there are varying degrees of nationalism being displayed in this thread.  I hardly think it appropriate for you to lump us all together as a people of a common mind.  However, this is just one more example of your anti-American bias and your method of elevating yourself by belittling others.  For some of us, our “greatness” is dependent on us being the best we can be.  That does not mean we will abandon our principles or our love for our country, because we haven’t obtained the highest standard.

One can indeed argue.... one would of course fail.

aPeaceOfAdam wrote:
The principals that you can build a very wealthy society by using stolen labour to build on stolen land ... and when you’ve run out of things to steal locally, start a war and steal from somewhere else?

You sound like me in college. The United States is a racist, imperialistic country and here’s a list of all our fuck-ups to prove what we already decided was true.

We actually used to think “When we get in power we’ll end greed and prejudice (along with everything else dark about human nature) and replace it with peace and love.” Simple.

All I can tell you is that life is way more complicated than that.

And btw - it goes without saying that at some point we made a moral decision that we wanted to be better as a country and we fought an incredibly bloody war to outlaw slavery. And 144 years later the majority of our country elected a black man to be their leader. Twice.

Bottom line, if you’re going make lists with the purpose of judging others, make sure you have more than one column.

rfordphotos wrote:
Again, context is everything. It is easy to pick ANY point in history, and point out how barbaric it was. No people, no nation can withstand that kind of "no context" criticism.  The real history of a nation cant be boiled down to single events or actions.

Exactly.

Simplistic and one-sided data in, simplistic and one-sided conclusions out.

Virtual Studio wrote:
One can indeed argue.... one would of course fail.

Actually he made a very good case for his position. Certainly far better than your defense.

Virtual Studio wrote:
The wars with Mexico where California, Arizona, New Mexco were taken.

The hostile conquest of Hawaii.

Conquest and occupation of the Philippines.

The Mexican American War.  1846-48 The first American war on foreign soil.  How many did the British fight.  Oh my, let’s not even look at them from 1700-1776- but just for reference, I will note the Anglo-Cherokee War 1758-1761 since you are so dogmatic about our relationship with the Native people.   How many did the British have between 1776 and 1848? Us (twice), France, Spain, even armed resurrection in Canada. 

Anglo-Maratha War 1774-1783
American Independence 76-83
Anglo-French 78-83
Anglo-Spanish 79-63
the 4th Anglo-Dutch War,  tsk tsk 80-83
2nd Anglo-Mysore War 1780-84
Northwest Indian War 85-95
3rd Anglo-Mysore War 89-1792
War of the French Revolution 1793-1802  cost you Egypt, hmm
Ibn Ufaisan’s Invasion 1793
2nd Maroon War 1795-1796
Hawkesbury and Nepean 95-1816
Kandyan Wars 1796-1818
Irish Rebellion 1798
4th Anglo-Mysore War 1798-99


Next century- 48 years to go
Temnw War 1801-1807
Tunisian-Sicilian War 1801-1804
2nd AngloMaratha War 1802-1805
First Kandyan War 1803-1805
Emmet’s Insurrection 1803
Ceylon invasion 1803
3rd Coalition 1803-1805
4th Coalition 1806-1807
Rio de la Plata invasion 1806-1807
Anglo-Turkish War 1807-1809
Ashanti Fante 1806-1807
Gunboat War 1807-1814
Angleo Russian War 1807-1812
Pennisular War 1807-1814
Persian Gulf Invasion 1809
5th Coalition 1809
Merina of Madagascar 1810-1817
Punjab War 1810-1820
4th Xhosa War 1811-1812
Ga-Fante War 1811
War of 1812 1812-15
6ht Coalition 1812-1814
2nd Jandyan War 1815
Hundred Days 1815
3rd Anglo-Maratha War 1817-1818
5th Xhosa War 1818-1819
Greek War of Independence 1820-1830
1st Ashanti War 1823-1831
1st Anglo-Burmese War 1824-1826
Mercenaries Revolt 1828
Portuguese Cicil War1828-1834
Baptist War 1831-1832   You were fighting a church? 
1st Carlist War 1833-1840
6th Xhosa War 1834-1836
Rebellions of 1837 37-38
1st Anglo-Afgan War 1839-1842
1st Opium War 1839-1842
2nd Egyptian Ottoman War 1839-1841
Uruguayan Civil War 1839-1851
1st anglo Sikh War 1845-1846
Flagstaff War 1845-1846
Hutt Valley 1846
7th Xhosa War 1846-1847   Seventh?  Jesus, could you leave those people alone?
Wanganui Campaign (is that nice for invasion- I think it is) 1847
2nd Anglo Sikh War 1848-1849
Tysami 1848

I am not even going to bother to count them.

Just curious, how many of those wars did you grab land in?  How many did you abuse the rights of the people?  How many did you take slaves?

Regarding the Mexican American War:
Not only did we get the land that became the states you mentioned,  we got Utah and Nevada.  Yes, that was a war of American expansionism.  Why was that wrong?  As I said before, for millennium, the land belonged to the people who occupied it.  If they were not strong enough to keep it, someone else replaced them or assimilated with them. Did the Spanish have greater rights to that land than the Native people?  Are you outraged the Spanish took it from them, or only that we took it from the Mexicans?  We also bought the Louisiana Purchase from France.  How the hell did they get all of that?  What European power showed any respect for the Rights of the Native people?  Certainly not England!
********************
Yes, American business men with implicit cooperation from some US officials, overthrew the Hawaiian monarch.  They declared Hawaii a republic,  It was annexed as a territory of the US after the Spanish-American War and became a state in 59, 66 years after the overthrow.  What are some of the places the British might have been controlling in 1893?  Damn, this is going to be a lot of typing, and when you look down this list, note how many places that were under British rule are, or have been, trouble spots in the world.
Afghanistan
Antigua& Barbuda
Australia
Bahamas
Bahrain
Barbados
Belize
Bermuda
Botswana
Brunei
Canada
Cyprus
Dominica
Egypt
Faklands
Fiji
Gambia
Ghana
Gibraltar
Grenada
Guyana
Hong Kong
India
Israel
Iraq
Ireland
Jamaica
Jorden
Kenya
Kiribati
Kuwait
Lesotho
Malawi
Malaysia
Maldives
Malta
Mauritius
Myanmar
Nauru
New Zealand
Nigeria
Pakistan
Qatar
Saint Lucia
Saint Vincent & the Grenadines
Scotland
Seychelles
Sierra Leone
Singapore
Solomon Islands
South Africa
Sri Lanka
Sudan
Swaziland
Tanzania
Tonga
Trinidad and Tobago
Tuvalu
Uganda
United Arab Emerites
Vanuatu
Yemen
Zambia
Zimbabwe
*************************
You are okay with what the Spanish were doing in the Philippines?  You are okay with what they were doing in Cuba? http://www.loc.gov/rr/hispanic/1898/rec … ation.html You are okay with the British attack on the Philippines?   You do realize that a deal was sealed between the US and the Spaniards to sell the Philippines to the Americans?  The show of force was supposedly a farce.
*************************
You are just throwing shit into the air and hoping some of it will stick to further your agenda of anti-American rhetoric.  The United States was no worse than any other country.  If you are upset and obsessed with how we turned out, your ancestors should have done a better job and been better role models.

************************
I think I succeeded.  I don't expect you to believe it.  Hmpft.

crx studios wrote:
Actually he made a very good case for his position*. Certainly far better than your defense.

*And that was before I saw what he wrote above - LOL

Happy New Year everybody!

Hunter  GWPB wrote:

The Mexican American War.  1846-48 The first American war on foreign soil.  How many did the British fight.  Oh my, let’s not even look at them from 1700-1776- but just for reference, I will note the Anglo-Cherokee War 1758-1761 since you are so dogmatic about our relationship with the Native people.   How many did the British have between 1776 and 1848? Us (twice), France, Spain, even armed resurrection in Canada. 

Just curious, how many of those wars did you grab land in?  How many did you abuse the rights of the people?  How many did you take slaves?

Regarding the Mexican American War:
Not only did we get the land that became the states you mentioned,  we got Utah and Nevada.  Yes, that was a war of American expansionism.  Why was that wrong?  As I said before, for millennium, the land belonged to the people who occupied it.  If they were not strong enough to keep it, someone else replaced them or assimilated with them. Did the Spanish have greater rights to that land than the Native people?  Are you outraged the Spanish took it from them, or only that we took it from the Mexicans?  We also bought the Louisiana Purchase from France.  How the hell did they get all of that?  What European power showed any respect for the Rights of the Native people.  Certainly not England!
********************
Yes, American business men with implicit cooperation from some US officials, overthrew the Hawaiian monarch.  They declared Hawaii a republic,  It was annexed as a territory of the US after the Spanish-American War and became a state in 59, 66 years after the overthrow.  What are some of the places the British might have been controlling in 1893?  Damn, this is going to be a lot of typing, and when you look down this list, note how many places that were under British rule are, or have been, trouble spots in the world.
Afghanistan
Antigua& Barbuda
Australia
Bahamas
Bahrain
Barbados
Belize
Bermuda
Botswana
Brunei
Canada
Cyprus
Dominica
Egypt
Faklands
Fiji
Gambia
Ghana
Gibraltar
Grenada
Guyana
Hong Kong
India
Israel
Iraq
Ireland
Jamaica
Jorden
Kenya
Kiribati
Kuwait
Lesotho
Malawi
Malaysia
Maldives
Malta
Mauritius
Myanmar
Nauru
New Zealand
Nigeria
Pakistan
Qatar
Saint Lucia
Saint Vincent & the Grenadines
Scotland
Seychelles
Sierra Leone
Singapore
Solomon Islands
South Africa
Sri Lanka
Sudan
Swaziland
Tanzania
Tonga
Trinidad and Tobago
Tuvalu
Uganda
United Arab Emerites
Vanuatu
Yemen
Zambia
Zimbabwe
*************************
You are okay with what the Spanish were doing in the Philippines?  You are okay with what they were doing in Cuba? http://www.loc.gov/rr/hispanic/1898/rec … ation.html You are okay with the British attack on the Philippines?   You do realize that a deal was sealed between the US and the Spaniards to sell the Philippines to the Americans?  The show of force was supposedly a farce.
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You are just throwing shit into the air and hoping some of it will stick to further your agenda of anti-American rhetoric.  The United States was no worse than any other country.  If you are upset and obsessed with how we turned out, your ancestors should have done a better job and been better role models.

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I think I succeeded.  I don't expect you to believe it.  Hmpft.

And yet.... the winning political slogan for our times is "Make America Great Again"..

The UK is used to being a waned empire. The USA won't admit it yet. That is the difference.

crx studios wrote:

Actually he made a very good case for his position. Certainly far better than your defense.

Wrong.

Virtual Studio wrote:
"Yes. But we don't keep on and on and on and on and on and on telling people how great we are.. big difference."

Cheer up, participation trophies can be great too!

aPeaceOfAdam wrote:
Wow that is some revisionist views right there.

Mexico allowed settlement, but that’s a lot different to GIVING away the territory!

Can you imagine if a bunch of American immigrants banded together and said “oh, this area is a new country now by the way”

Please do not confuse the fight for Texas with the Mexican American War they were two different things...
In fact the Americans who went to Texas became Mexican citizens, in order to receive their land grants. America had little to do with the entire  Texas matter.  This was an insurrection that Santa Anna sought to stamp out in the most dramatic way by killing the entire male inhabitants of towns ( Mexican citizens in fact) like in Goliad.

It was not until the Texans created an independent government with their own constitution. (not the US at all) and  a standing army under Sam Houston and finally the capture of Santa Anna  who in turn ceded the land from Mexico to the Texans did Texas become an independent state.

Lisa Everhart wrote:
For those of you who are able to view it, this is what makes America great. It applies to the rest of the people in the world as well who desire to live their lives free and responsibly.

https://www.facebook.com/lisa.everhart. … nref=story

Absolutely Lisa! Happy New Years to you.

Hunter  GWPB wrote:

Arrogance is arrogance.  You may think you do not spout off about how great your country is (you do from time to time), and you certainly let us know how we have failed.  You personally, anyway.  Your comments, which I quoted for the previous post, is not the first time you have used that ploy.  It is funny how you want to remind us of your perception of our shortcomings of our country, but you never mention the horrors committed by your people, and the extermination and abuses of the Natives in your country.  That makes your posts rather dishonest and disingenuous.  You are no better than we are, and one can argue you are far worse.  I have seen you say that the English have a clear conscience except for the matter of the Australian Aborigines.  What a crock.  Not only are there many others, but how do you have a clear conscience because you committed just one genocide?   Continent wide, wasn’t it? 

If you note, there are varying degrees of nationalism being displayed in this thread.  I hardly think it appropriate for you to lump us all together as a people of a common mind.  However, this is just one more example of your anti-American bias and your method of elevating yourself by belittling others.  For some of us, our “greatness” is dependent on us being the best we can be.  That does not mean we will abandon our principles or our love for our country, because we haven’t obtained the highest standard.

Let's not forget that the British did in fact create the "concentration camp" by forcing women and children and old men into confined areas during the Boer War. And when that still did not deter the Boers ( Who were defending their country from the Imperialistic English) they cut off all food to the camps Starving  those they put into the camps until it became untenable for the Boers to continue.  There is plenty of horror and shame to go around for each country in the world.

America is a great country and can be greater still.

ernst tischler wrote:
Mexico gave land in Texas to settlers, then decided to change the rules.  The Texans decided to defend themselves and keep what was already theirs.

aPeaceOfAdam wrote:
Wow that is some revisionist views right there.

Mexico allowed settlement, but that’s a lot different to GIVING away the territory!

Can you imagine if a bunch of American immigrants banded together and said “oh, this area is a new country now by the way”

Mexico gave away the land to settlers as grants.  The deed to the land I own traces back to one of those grants.  The grants were given subject to certain conditions for the settler and certain promises from the Mexican government.  Later, the Mexican government decided to not honor those promises and attempted to subject the settlers to new rules.  The trigger was when the Mexican government attempted to take back some cannons they had given the settlers for protection.  The new heavy handed tactics by the Mexican government caused the revolution, and Mexico lost.  if the Mexican government had honored the promises they made, the revolution would not have happened.

ernst tischler wrote:
Please name when and where the US has started a war and stolen from another country.

aPeaceOfAdam wrote:
So, do you want wars they’ve actually started like Iraq (oil) or are you happy with the list of authoritarian regimes they’be propped up that then went on to commit atrocities?  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of … ted_States

The Iraq war would have not happened if Saddam had not invaded Kuwait.  The US has spent billions over there and no oil was stolen.  That is nothing but propaganda, someone repeats BS enough times and people believe it.

I was against the Iraq war.  It was my opinion that Saddam was the type of guy you could cut a deal with a lot cheaper than you could go in and kill him.  The entire region destabilized as a result of his removal.

billy badfinger wrote:
Of the 3 primary "Superpowers"...China IS the best candidate:)
The most progressive...Infrastucture projects that put the US and Russia to shame!
The least aggressive...Don't really seem interested in forcing regime changes like the US and Russia!
Best understanding of Economics as a tool for power...less interested in blowing shit up than the US or Russia!
By 2030 China will essentially control the economic destiny of EVERYTHING between the Eastern Atlantic and Western Pacific....
And they prob won't kill/murder that many people in the process...
Please don't be nationalistic to the point where U become blind...that's just sad to me:((

NYTimes Is Hong Kong really part of China
NYTimes China's Trojan train into Hong Kong
NYTimes Hong Kong's Autonomy slipping away