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Innocence Lost
Preface: I'd like to hear mainly from some of the larger players here. Those that don't bat an eye at the pressure of say, a six figure job or delivering a bazillion pages of editorial to a publication that circulates 300,000. Not that I don't value everyones opinion; I'm just looking for a very far removed viewpoint. ~~~~~~ Recently there was a post that took a brief, but related, detour. https://www.modelmayhem.com/p.php?thread_id=206230 Two notable and established veterans. Mr. Randall and Mr. Eastwood had an info exchange on file archiving and management. It was scary shit and made Mr. Randall's penis shrivel. (his words.) At one point, Mr. Eastwood remarked "And all I want to do is get back to the days where I just took a camera and ran out with a girl and shot some stuff at the park or local college campus and did not know what I was doing or that I was not suppose to be doing it there let alone without 14 lights and 3 people to hold them." This made me pause for a long time. I think that most of us got into photography because we were attracted to the magic, this amazing thing that records what and how we see, and then we can show it to others. Hopefully that phase lasts forever where we jump up and down showing someone a new image screaming like a little kid in a sandbox. Like the little kid in a sandbox, everything is perfect; nothing was ever done "the wrong way. It was ALWAYS perfectly the way it should be. I don't think any of us thought "Yeah! I can't wait for the day that I burn through 5 TB's a month and struggle to stay on top of copyright law!" There's no doubt that the successful photographers that have managed to grow their business to several employees and dollar numbers I can't imagine must feel the grind sometimes. But how has all that growth changed how they shoot? Are the same subjects still fascinating? Is the simple magic of fresh vision jaded by time, business pressures and keeping up with the Joneses? Is what was once interesting no longer so, not through the natural evolution of life experience but through the unnatural production of vision, like the way a musician might stand too close to the amps for too long and become a touch hard of hearing? Let fly. Nov 07 07 09:57 pm Link I remember the moment I got into photography initially. I was attending community college, getting a bachelor or arts in journalism, after attending university. I was required to take a short semester in photojournalism for journalism. It was basic: here's your camera; here's your film; here's how you develop said film; and here's how you make a print. And, voila ! I was hooked. I knew in that instant coming from the darkroom for the first time, that I had been given a gift: a natural inclination for taking a good photograph. Good angles. Good in-camera cropping. In black and white, nonetheless. Like my mother before me. With her brownie camera, which she still has. I'd like to think I inherited her 'vision' in black and white. Ironically, I dream in black and white. I've only ever dreamed in color once in my life that I recall. Perhaps even, I inherited some of her creativity and ability to technically master the little black box, without any 'formal' training. I'd like to think even more then that, that I inherited her 'passion' for photography. I'm very passionate about it. And yet even in the digital age, I love a great black and white image taken in broad daylight or under a semi-cloudy or overcast sky. One light will do. I don't require 14 lights, in fact, I prefer just one, 90% of the time. Afterall, there is only one sun. So, to reflect back on the OP's original statement: I still love to run outside in light of day, camera in hand, model in tow, and shoot. No lights. No reflectors. Digital or film. It doesn't matter. Just to shoot. Cause that's the one thing in life I'm most passionate about. Gigabytes and terrabytes to hell. Let's make great art ! Even with your old polaroid...or Brownie.  ~ ward ~ Nov 07 07 10:16 pm Link I am busy so nothing of value to say tonight but a great topic and question. I know Chip to be humble so I think it is okay to post this, His avatar currently is interesting considering the topic. Almost fortelling like in some weird Greek Tragedy.  Not a critique, I am not making one nor should you on the photo. I do think it tells of what is happening to the industry. Me, I chose to hang out and not battle for the top unless elected in a brokered convention. (can most of you understand me, No. Do I care? No. Maybe that is part of my point.) Nov 07 07 10:58 pm Link I think in any profession it can be easy to lose sight of the original vision - the orignal excitement. A large percentage of the paid work is quite mundane and relatively unexciting. I enjoy shooting, no matter what I am shooting, but without a doubt the most fun I have is shooting when I am able to do exactly what Stephen said he wanted to do - run around and shoot with no cares. This thread ties in a bit with my previous thread on Vision & inspiration (https://modelmayhem.com/p.php?thread_id=155848) I think at some point we all go through stages where we miss the simplicity of not having to worry about corporate drama, licensing, and negotiating with clients. But all it takes to reignite the magic is some good old running around in fields with a camera & a model. Even though in my previous thread I wrote about finding your vision for each shoot and not relying on equipment, I find even myself letting my equipment do the shooting from time to time. It's so easy to get into a rhythm - we find a way that works, and we tend to stick with it, rather than experiment. When big money is on the line, experimentation may get put on the backburner. On a shoot I did yesterday, I had issues with my pack. Uh oh...no strobes. In retrospect, I am thrilled I didn't have any lighting - back to basics. Nothing but a camera (and 13gb of CF cards). (And model, stylist, and hair and makeup) I think the images below illustrate the point that it doesn't take a 14 light set up to create quality work. To answer your question "Is what was once interesting no longer not so, not through the natural evolution of life experience but through the unnatural production of vision"....I think that what was interesting is indeed still interesting - it is just often more difficult to find what is interesting when our lives become filled with a great deal of uninteresting elements. I think everyone shooting professionally would do themselves a great service to occasionally ditch the 100 pounds of equipment and just go out and shoot for the fun of it.   Nov 07 07 11:15 pm Link Thanks Ward, M.hana and Nick. Nov 07 07 11:25 pm Link Hey there Chip! I send you snuggles. May you have 6 figure jobs galore.  BRITT Nov 07 07 11:27 pm Link I'm retired. Have been for a while now. Even before I retired, I kind of did, because I would only take jobs that I wanted to do for their own sake. Now, with very limited shoot budgets, I do pretty much exactly what Stephen describes. I run around to wherever there is a pretty girl or an interesting location, or a fun event, and shoot whatever presents itself. I don't worry about meeting any particular style or criterion. I just have fun with a camera. That's the way it was for me 40 years ago, and the way it is again. All that other stuff is just details in between. Nov 07 07 11:43 pm Link Chip Morton wrote: I do not want to comment on this yet, I would rather see where it goes from others perspectives, but I would like to point out and clarify what was meant in from where those sentiments came. Nov 08 07 12:21 am Link i would not want to do this for money Nov 08 07 12:33 am Link that seems far more melancholy than it was actually meant, I am not depressed over this, its more like frustration with my own limits and an inablity or unwillingness to just "get over it" that frustrates me. Partially because I do not really consider myself an artist, more a commercial realist who happens to currently have a talent to produce images that enough people feel are valuable enough to pay enough for to make me very comfortable and busy. I see real artists and wish I had some of what they have, and I see real artists, and am thankful I don't have some of what they have, some are really tortured souls. I am a Capitalist! and if the business changed and said my style should with it, I would, for now its OK and I happen to be very lucky that I get to do something I typically enjoy and get paid well for it. Its hard to complain (well not for a New Yorker) but I know its hard to have sympathy for anyone who does what I do and gets paid! I sure wouldn't Stephen Eastwood http://www.StephenEastwood.com Nov 08 07 12:39 am Link michael george wrote: Then you have to raise your rates! Nov 08 07 12:41 am Link Awesome insight, Stephen. Thanks for that! Nov 08 07 12:42 am Link Chip Morton wrote: hey no problem I give rate advice on wednesdays! Nov 08 07 12:45 am Link I did a shoot recently in which I had 2 models, a MUA, a Gaffer and an Assistant Director, myself and the client. Its fun working with a great team and the quality of the photos are much higher. But I think I'll continue to preserve the rawness of my solo stuff. I don't think either route is better than the other. Its just different. Nov 08 07 12:46 am Link P.S. I'm not nearly as high-up the ladder as people seem to think I am. But I can see where the next level of photography would drive me, and so I've ben pondering a lot of the issues mentioned above. Nov 08 07 12:53 am Link M Sebastian wrote: At times it is possible to establish a style that allows for anything to go, usually it requires a rich someone who is related or a special someone who you have befriended that is in a position to make it be in VOGUE so to speak. I would probably envy those that can have a style that allows for them to do whatever without a care in the world. Nov 08 07 01:06 am Link Nov 08 07 01:08 am Link StephenEastwood wrote: Thanks for posting this, your words are going to touch a lot of people over the coming weeks Nov 08 07 01:47 am Link I am an obsessive art photographer. I like it that way. Nov 08 07 01:57 am Link Chip Morton wrote: Nov 08 07 02:12 am Link Good thread. Nov 08 07 02:50 am Link the more money that's only the line, the more control the money people have -- in any business, not just photography. but, professional photography isn't just business -- it's show business. and show business is a funny business. it's like the old joke: how many directors does it ake to change a light bulb? i don't know -- what do you think? in other words, there's no cookbook formula in show business. so, because no one is really an expert, everyone tries to be one. that can be a real headache for someone who has a personal vision. a delicate balance is required. if the money people have too much control, they'll never take a chance on something that doesn't fit the template that's worked before. eventually, the audience stops looking at what's showing. on the other hand, if a "creative genius" gets too much control over too big a project, what often results is a self-indulgent incomprehensible mess. and, the audience doesn't bother to look at all. so, yeah, a 6-figure campaign is not going to allow for the kind of spontaneity you enjoyed when you were still shooting your first hundred rolls of film. Nov 08 07 03:12 am Link *bump* Nov 08 07 08:43 am Link StephenEastwood wrote: Wonderful insights Stephen!! So concisely stated... Bravo!! Nov 08 07 09:09 am Link This thread should not disappear so quickly. G Nov 08 07 07:22 pm Link After many years in photography, most of it on the mundane commercial work that paid the rent and gave me a decent living, I was also able to do work that did excite. Because of that I have never really lost the original buzz I got from the subject. Now that I am semi-retired and now pick and choose the work I do for clients I can honestly say that the excitment is still there. I no longer have to consider the money side of the business as paramount. It was because of good business practice and sound financial planning that has left me free to work in the way I now do. No matter what level of photography one works in, if it is a passion rather than just a job, then the excitment should always remain in the forefront. Nov 08 07 07:39 pm Link Thanks, Malloch. Thanks, Sebastian. Nov 08 07 08:48 pm Link It really saddens me that this thread has so few responses from people in the industry even if only to say hey not me I still have zest for it, amazing how the only threads that get responses in the hundreds are BS crap! Explains why I generally avoid reading through, when you do find something that may have a real thought behind it, it gets nowhere. G Nov 09 07 08:22 pm Link payed works pay the bills,the personal work ,a lot of freetime even if the are usually the most frustrating in creativity they are also exciting challanges anyway i don't like to work and there is not so many job where it's so much fun in fact i feel like i never work so i enjoy both and one side feed the other tb Nov 09 07 08:30 pm Link H Newton mentioned in his Autobiography that during every project he dedicated some time to make pictures that werenât supposed to meet expectations. They got rejected and he could keep them for his personal portfolio. As he put it, this was his way to play the system and use best models and stylists for his personal experiments Nov 12 07 01:39 am Link well, i'm glad to read from seasoned professionals. i'm still climbing my ladder, so i don't have any advice about what it's like at the top. i can only look back at the few stones i've hopped thus far in my little pond and look at the ones who've made it & hope they post here. Dec 03 07 02:33 pm Link ward wrote: I agree. Dec 03 07 04:56 pm Link I still do it the easy way because I enjoy it. Some people are starting to make things difficult for me. I am staying away from those people. Dec 03 07 06:15 pm Link Outstanding thread. I'm still a student so I'll keep my Sophomore mouth shut and all but I understand it when you said you were hooked and had a gift for angles. I'm contemplating dropping out of school altogether. Dec 03 07 06:20 pm Link Mr Eastwood shares words of wisdom for sure, just as he did with me in a PM. It was a short paragraph and a definite eye-opener, objective and factual. I'm on the outer edge of magazines and mid-range business, just not there yet. I still have fun where I am. But I think I could have fun if I were up the proverbial ladder too. I just don't know if I'll ever get there. So I'll continue to walk downtown with my camera and flash, going to concerts to shoot and not being able to make the money I wish I could make. Maybe some day... Dec 03 07 06:31 pm Link Tiptoes in.... What do we do when it seems that we spend more time on paperwork taxes, bank trips, calling clients, planning trips, answering emails, booking clients, meetings, and all that shit than doing what we love... (being the nekked girl on campus) Dec 03 07 07:04 pm Link maybe this is why I am hesitant about going pro. I love wandering out in the middle of nowhere, with only a camera in a backpack, and maybe a "model/person", no plan, no expectations... just winging it. I don't want to let go of that. Dec 04 07 03:40 am Link BYS, Leo, Iona et. al. Thanks. Shiggily, I know what you mean. (Morton patiently waits for Pixel Fisher and B. Randall, among others.) Nick Zantop wrote: Excellent! OLJ studio wrote: Good to know! Dec 04 07 10:04 am Link Hey guys - First off. Chip is your Mom's name Jane? I think I know her from back in the prepress game. If it is I hope she is well. One of my favorite coworkers in that industry and a great lady! I've been banging away in this industry about 15 years or so. Came in with wide eyed excitement after being a serious amateur for years. Started in the prepress industry and eventually worked into doing commercial photography with the advent of high end digital capture in '95ish. All that being said, Not sure if I have any of that wide eyed excitement anymore. My career is different than most on MM I think. Most of my days are spend banging out product shots of shoes, clothes, glasses, medical parts, golf clubs.......from 6AM until 6PM many times 7 days a week for 6 to 8 week stretches. Once they are shot I have to figure out how to get shots press ready as well. I make great money but it is a bit of a grind. I don't think I know how to take a shot without at least 5 lights any more (7 - 9 lights feels more comfortable). My advocation has become a vocation. It has been a good run but much of the magic is gone. Which brings me to Model Mayhem. I enjoy making images of models, if nothing else for fun. I don't have to sell them, they can look like I want (not the art director or marketing person) and the models/MUAs/Hair people seem really appreciative of some decent quality images. I will continue to test a few times a year as a creative outlet. It has brought some spark back into my shooting and some fun. Looking forward to doing a couple more test the first part of next year. I still don't think I am ready to revert to "go grab a camera and a model and just head out and see what we get." (Who would carry my 9 lights?????) Have fun with it guys! Tim Dec 04 07 10:42 am Link man, am I a buzz kill - Was looking forward to keeping this going - BUMP. Dec 04 07 11:49 am Link |
