Photographer
Hamza
Posts: 7791
New York, New York, US
Virginia Savelle wrote:
DJH Photo wrote:
I am absolutely certain I am not the best photo editor out there, but I am the best photo editor for my own images  It's that kind of ego and refusal to explore that prevents even greater art from being created. A fresh eye very often sees things that you don't. Wow, such an arrogant statement!
It's not about ego, it's about the artist(photographer) making art the way HE/SHE chooses.
Would you tell Picaso that his pictures would look better if he just did a few little changes?
Jesus Christ woman!
Photographer
Hamza
Posts: 7791
New York, New York, US
Virginia Savelle wrote:
If she was smart and saw a flaw she would!
... E G O ... Time to find a different hobby... this one just got played out.
Photographer
Image K
Posts: 23400
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
PYPI FASHION wrote:
Quality over quantity. The successful models understand that. Yep.
The newer the model, the more they seem to think they are entitled to all of the images on a CD.
The more experienced the model, the more they seem to realize that you can only squeeze several shots from ONE shoot into your book. 5-10 quality shots from a shoot is a bonanza.
Photographer
Karl Yamashita
Posts: 3305
Temecula, California, US
Maybe it's just me but somebody approached someone, wither it was the photographer asked the model to shoot or the model asked the photographer to shoot. The model agreed to shoot because she liked his work. This is how the photographer's workflow goes. If he only gives you a certain amount of photos, then thats how it goes.
Photographer
Image K
Posts: 23400
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Kristina J wrote:
Virginia, no offense, but in every thread you moan so much about the photographers and the raw deal they all give you, it really does make me wonder why don't you just pick up a camera and start doing self-portraits.
You could be the best model in the world for all I know, but your terms are way too prohibitive.
Why on earth would you need 200odd pictures of yourself in the same outfit?
That's insane.
I give out up to 2 images per look and I have yet to meet a model that was unhappy with those terms. And that includes agency models. Quoted for absolute truth.
As much as I hate the expression "industry standard", 2 images per look is as close to industry standard that I have seen.
Photographer
LeTiciaF Photography
Posts: 505
Detroit, Michigan, US
I only give out 4-5 high res retouched images. I retouch many more in low-res " if its a killer model" I have been thinking I might even start only giving out prints to have more control of my images. But I will say over 70% of MM models are not real working models. " just girls that like to take pretty pictures" everyday I see one of these girls/guys posting ridiculous demands like only doing paid work lmao or I must get all of my images etc. Not knowing that real agency models don't care what they get. As long as they get good images or tear sheets. Most agency girls/agents will tell you,all she needs is a great B&W or a great body shot etc.... They never ask for 10-20 images " for what" myspace? Models test to get better & to get current images. " Not to rack up images " At my shoots ,l let models see all of the shots raw. But would I give that model all of the images. No way! Those are my images. I will only give out what I think is best. If your a model that must have control/ pick out your own images? Stop being cheap a pay for a shoot. Then you can make the calls. " Off topic " I think the problem here is we have non pro models giving out really bad advice. So many other models see this a run with it. You models must learn your craft & learn how things really go in the industry. I think for some strange reason models really think they should have say on what should happen at & after a tfcd shoot? Unless your a killer model that can come right in & nail everylook in 4-5 shots. How can you all complain about 10hour shoots? The reason we shoot for 10 hours is because it takes most Un pro or new models 300 shots to get maybe 3-5 good images lol :0 If you ever make it to a real shoot. You models will see that the model comes in,does what the Photog & creative director ask them to do & go home thats it. Paid or test. Some how I think MM models really think they can come on set and run things!!!! Unless your kate moss or somebody I say be happy that people are even shooting with you
Photographer
LeTiciaF Photography
Posts: 505
Detroit, Michigan, US
dreslin photography wrote:
Guess I'm just naive I give the model two or three images of each look, and let the model go through them at the end of the shoot and let them pick the images they want.
I guess a lot of the photographers are more selective than me, I guess if they got a photo of a celebrity like Brittany Spears they would only offer one photo only to the tabloids Its cool that you do that. But I see no point on giving out so many images.
I mean thats a lot of work. 2-3 images of each look lol....
5 looks ,Thats 15 images. What working pro model needs 15 images from the same shoot? If they are not tear sheets?
I find it the more images you give out, the more people do silly things with them.
Also If I take a image of a celebrity like Brittany Spears.
Chances are I am not doing that many test shoots anyway
Model
MelissaLynnette LaDiva
Posts: 50816
Leawood, Kansas, US
PYPI FASHION wrote:
Quality over quantity. The successful models understand that.
Model
MelissaLynnette LaDiva
Posts: 50816
Leawood, Kansas, US
PYPI FASHION wrote:
I have never had a model I've shot complain about not getting enough images. Not even once. That tells me I'm working with the right type of models. Orly?
Now I know what to do if we ever shoot. 
Photographer
Kristina J
Posts: 2328
London, England, United Kingdom
The way I look at it, models that are demanding all the images on the CD (or something equally silly) are pushing themselves out of the market.
They're either going to have to learn very fast and stop being so demanding or they can continue with demands and resign themselves to the fact that their portfolio will never progress to the better level.
Photographer
PYPI FASHION
Posts: 36332
San Francisco, California, US
MelissaLynnette LaDiva wrote:
Orly?
Now I know what to do if we ever shoot. If you want a CD, I will gladly give you a CD....
of Michael Bolton songs.
Photographer
Hamza
Posts: 7791
New York, New York, US
Unique Vision wrote:
There are a lot of models that don't know how much equipment costs. Who cares what your equipment costs? Jesus Christ!
Do you ever hear a plumber complain about what his tools cost?
Nobody gives a Fuck what you paid for your Tools!
Photographer
Angelize Photography
Posts: 327
Sacramento, California, US
I recently did my first photo shoot and I am learning from trial and error. I felt a bit uncomfortable when I found one of my images was edited after I gave it to the model. I asked her to at least note that it was edited by her. From now on, I'm going to discuss these things prior to a shoot. 
Photographer
Hamza
Posts: 7791
New York, New York, US
Angelize Photography wrote:
I recently did my first photo shoot and I am learning from trial and error. I felt a bit uncomfortable when I found one of my images was edited after I gave it to the model. I asked her to at least note that it was edited by her. From now on, I'm going to discuss these things prior to a shoot. Not a good feeling isn't it. Did you ask her to remove it?
Technically she Violated your Copyright and broke the law...
There are things you can do...
It's a pain in the ass, but you can have the image taken off the websites and servers as long as you can prove you own the copyright.
Model
Linzy M
Posts: 7
Arlington, Virginia, US
well coming from agency representation, and a newbie to MM it is crazy to me some of the requests that are supposedly being made to these photographers, and some of the demands people have on their pages. In the agency setting, the models don't usually see but maybe a few images from the shoot, nor do you even have a say whatsoever as to which images are chosen for your comp/portfolio - and that's all there is to it. And I'm not saying that you can't be successful unless you're with an agency...because what do i know? But the overall goal of a model's portfolio is to continue booking them jobs.....so when it comes to marketing materials etc, agency girls with experience that are actually booking jobs are the ones that should naturally be more demanding....but from what I've seen - it's quite the opposite on MM....
this is very strange to me...
Model
-Terrace-
Posts: 1322
Knoxville, Tennessee, US
PYPI FASHION wrote:
Quality over quantity. The successful models understand that. quoted for truth.
it only takes ONE good image to make the day worth it...or to make a magazine cover.
~T
Photographer
Hamza
Posts: 7791
New York, New York, US
-Terrace- wrote:
quoted for truth.
it only takes ONE good image to make the day worth it...or to make a magazine cover.
~T ![https://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg302/PhotosByHamza/Animated%20Smileys/SmileyWerenotworthy.gif]()
Photographer
Hamza
Posts: 7791
New York, New York, US
Linzy M wrote:
well coming from agency representation, and a newbie to MM it is crazy to me some of the requests that are supposedly being made to these photographers, and some of the demands people have on their pages. In the agency setting, the models don't usually see but maybe a few images from the shoot, nor do you even have a say whatsoever as to which images are chosen for your comp/portfolio - and that's all there is to it. And I'm not saying that you can't be successful unless you're with an agency...because what do i know? But the overall goal of a model's portfolio is to continue booking them jobs.....so when it comes to marketing materials etc, agency girls with experience that are actually booking jobs are the ones that should naturally be more demanding....but from what I've seen - it's quite the opposite on MM....
this is very strange to me... ![https://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg302/PhotosByHamza/Animated%20Smileys/SmileyWerenotworthy.gif]()
Photographer
B R U N E S C I
Posts: 25319
Bath, England, United Kingdom
Virginia Savelle wrote:
Where is the logic? The logic is that it can take me up to five hours (or more) to properly retouch a beauty shot. If I give out 20 retouched shots that's 100 hours work in addition to the shoot time. Do you really think that your 3, 5 or even 7 hours at the shoot is worth 103, 105 or 107 of mine?
FWIW I give a CD of very low res watermarked proofs of all shots from the session on the day so that the model has a record of what was shot. I then put a up a web gallery with my approved shots (the 'selects') from the session (usually about 10% of what was shot) and will retouch a minimum of 4 shots from those - two of the model's choosing and two of mine. If there are other shots I also wish to retouch then I will give the model copies of those as well. If he/she's still not satisfied after that, then further shots from the selects can be ordered and retouched at my normal retouching rate.
Just my $0.02
Ciao
Stefano
Photographer
GDS Photos
Posts: 3399
London, England, United Kingdom
PYPI FASHION wrote:
Here's a tip for models. You will see responses from photographers here. Some will say they give a cd of all images. Some will say they will only give a few selected images. Go look at the ports of those two groups and ask yourself who you would rather shoot with. Yaay PYPI
Photographer
Kelly Watkins
Posts: 4144
San Diego, California, US
GDS Photos wrote:
Yaay PYPI PYPI is my hero.
Photographer
PYPI FASHION
Posts: 36332
San Francisco, California, US
PYPI FASHION wrote:
Here's a tip for models. You will see responses from photographers here. Some will say they give a cd of all images. Some will say they will only give a few selected images. Go look at the ports of those two groups and ask yourself who you would rather shoot with. GDS Photos wrote:
Yaay PYPI Yeah. That didn't work so well. All the photographers who give out all their images on a CD saw that post and ran the other way.
Model
-Terrace-
Posts: 1322
Knoxville, Tennessee, US
PYPI FASHION wrote:
PYPI FASHION wrote:
Here's a tip for models. You will see responses from photographers here. Some will say they give a cd of all images. Some will say they will only give a few selected images. Go look at the ports of those two groups and ask yourself who you would rather shoot with. Yeah. That didn't work so well. All the photographers who give out all their images on a CD saw that post and ran the other way. better they run away now...
Photographer
Jay Farrell
Posts: 13408
Nashville, Tennessee, US
Of course the models in this thread who toot their horn the loudest about this, are the ones who have so-so (at best) ports. Go figure.
Photographer
Donal Gardner
Posts: 3099
Gloucester, England, United Kingdom
pullins photography wrote:
control yes...that's what copyright is all about
ego? perhaps. I'll take ownership of what I created, but not something someone altered of mine I don't like...why should the artist? Bingo...
Photographer
LeTiciaF Photography
Posts: 505
Detroit, Michigan, US
Linzy M wrote:
well coming from agency representation, and a newbie to MM it is crazy to me some of the requests that are supposedly being made to these photographers, and some of the demands people have on their pages. In the agency setting, the models don't usually see but maybe a few images from the shoot, nor do you even have a say whatsoever as to which images are chosen for your comp/portfolio - and that's all there is to it. And I'm not saying that you can't be successful unless you're with an agency...because what do i know? But the overall goal of a model's portfolio is to continue booking them jobs.....so when it comes to marketing materials etc, agency girls with experience that are actually booking jobs are the ones that should naturally be more demanding....but from what I've seen - it's quite the opposite on MM....
this is very strange to me... Not strange just Like I said before ,you have so many unpro models" more like girls that like to take pretty pictures" Giving out bad advice all the time on here.
So you have so many young lady's really thinking they know the game.
Lol when they have no clue, on how things go.
I can't blame it all on them. We also have many so called photogs that get so excited to shoot anything thats real. They allow some of these girls to make demands. Its just really sad for many people. Because so many girls are missing out on great shoots because of all of their demands That they are not even close to being ready to have.
Unless you huge,you cant really make demands. Your agency can, but not the model. & even then you must still learn to pick your battles.
Photographer
studio36uk
Posts: 22898
Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna
Hamza wrote:
Do you ever hear a plumber complain about what his tools cost? No, but have you ever gotten a bill from one of them? [hint: Plumbers don't do TF* anything]
ROTFLMAO
Studio36
Photographer
AUTONOMY
Posts: 3674
MeganElizabeth wrote:
I never said I wanted ALL. I said if I bother to shoot in 10 outfits and you give me only a choice of four, well beauty is in the eye of the beholder as they say, and honestly half the time, the ones you need are different than the ones I need, different than the ones the stylist needs, different than the ones the makeup artist needs.
As for picking out the favorites, that was one of the parts I use to love as well--so that you didn't waste time, as I realize your editing time is precious too...but if I get NO pictures from a shoot I wasted all of this time on, how is that fair? not to even a choice in looking at them and picking MY favorites. Hire the photog for the day and you can have all of the images you wish, even the shitty ones.
Photographer
SLE Photography
Posts: 68937
Orlando, Florida, US
-Terrace- wrote:
quoted for truth.
it only takes ONE good image to make the day worth it...or to make a magazine cover.
~T
Photographer
SLE Photography
Posts: 68937
Orlando, Florida, US
Virginia Savelle wrote:
Before you start with the start with "sweet baby jesus," are you certain that you are the very best photo editor out there? Is it so unreasonable for a photographer to negotiate with a model after he has seen the quality of her editing skills?
There has to be some middle ground, because the opinions I read at total polar opposites. Silly me, I thought photographers and models worked TOGETHER. DJH Photo wrote:
I am absolutely certain I am not the best photo editor out there, but I am the best photo editor for my own images SLE Photography wrote:
Absolutely. I can never understand this reasoning from models. Part of my "look" and "style" is my selection process & editing.
Given that, in theory, a model decides to work with me based on those things WHY would she want to turn around & make something else out of my images? Still waiting for a good answer to this from someone.
Photographer
studio36uk
Posts: 22898
Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna
SLE Photography wrote:
SLE Photography wrote:
Absolutely. I can never understand this reasoning from models. Part of my "look" and "style" is my selection process & editing.
Given that, in theory, a model decides to work with me based on those things WHY would she want to turn around & make something else out of my images? Still waiting for a good answer to this from someone. Because her b/f has a ripped copy of PS... and she can.
Studio36
Photographer
Digital Plus Photo
Posts: 685
Washington, Illinois, US
MeganElizabeth wrote:
Wow is it me, or have things started to change lately with this whole TF*(specifically CD) deal. There use to be a time where you actually got the prints and I was fine with only getting a few since they were already printed for me. But then Photographers started giving out the CD(instead of bothering to make prints) of MOST of the images from the shoot. Not necessary raw, but pretty close and it gave you that option of more of choices to use which was nice. It also didn't make you mind working hard for every shot, and doing 10 changes, and driving off to some crazy location.
But as of late, I'm finding that even after discussing the "what is your policy for images" photographers are saying one thing and then post-shoot doing another. Alot are thinking that 4 pics on a CD is worth a half day-full(to more)day for you.
I dont get it.
What happened to the creativity?
What happen to the fairness?
What happened to being valued as a model?
I thought it might be one or two douchebag photographers out there, but from what I'm gathering its alot more than that. What gives? Ok so I need to ask "What is a "douchebag photographer". Is this what you have come to expect when you work with a photographer that he will be of that personality and work ethic. Just wondering.
Model
jnkl
Posts: 121
Čaġčarān, Ġawr, Afghanistan
I would MUCH rather have 3-5 awesome photos from a day's work than have a cd with 400 nearly identical, half-assed edited pictures. But surely, you need to have this straight before you work together.
I assume that both model and photographer only work together if they trust the other part to deliver something you're happy with. I would never expect say, Lithium Picnic (just to mention someone most of us know) to give me a whole CD, cause I trust him to make a few really ace pictures.
Photographer
SLE Photography
Posts: 68937
Orlando, Florida, US
studio36uk wrote:
Because her b/f has a ripped copy of PS... and she can.
Studio36 That would be funnier if a model hadn't really used it as a response once.
I said a GOOD answer.
Photographer
SLE Photography
Posts: 68937
Orlando, Florida, US
Sankta Cecilia wrote:
I would MUCH rather have 3-5 awesome photos from a day's work than have a cd with 400 nearly identical, half-assed edited pictures. But surely, you need to have this straight before you work together.
I assume that both model and photographer only work together if they trust the other part to deliver something you're happy with. I would never expect say, Lithium Picnic (just to mention someone most of us know) to give me a whole CD, cause I trust him to make a few really ace pictures.
Photographer
Night Light Images
Posts: 933
Tulsa, Oklahoma, US
PYPI FASHION wrote:
PYPI FASHION wrote:
Here's a tip for models. You will see responses from photographers here. Some will say they give a cd of all images. Some will say they will only give a few selected images. Go look at the ports of those two groups and ask yourself who you would rather shoot with. Yeah. That didn't work so well. All the photographers who give out all their images on a CD saw that post and ran the other way. Or..... they are sitting on the sidelines laughing their collective asses off.
Photographer
Northwest FL Images
Posts: 281
ROSEMARY BEACH, Florida, US
PYPI FASHION wrote:
Here's a tip for models. You will see responses from photographers here. Some will say they give a cd of all images. Some will say they will only give a few selected images. Go look at the ports of those two groups and ask yourself who you would rather shoot with. Easily the best piece of advice given on this thread... and done so early on the first page.
Photographer
ArtisticVisions
Posts: 1012
Nashville, Tennessee, US
MeganElizabeth wrote:
Wow is it me, or have things started to change lately with this whole TF*(specifically CD) deal. There use to be a time where you actually got the prints and I was fine with only getting a few since they were already printed for me. But then Photographers started giving out the CD(instead of bothering to make prints) of MOST of the images from the shoot. Not necessary raw, but pretty close and it gave you that option of more of choices to use which was nice. It also didn't make you mind working hard for every shot, and doing 10 changes, and driving off to some crazy location.
But as of late, I'm finding that even after discussing the "what is your policy for images" photographers are saying one thing and then post-shoot doing another. Alot are thinking that 4 pics on a CD is worth a half day-full(to more)day for you.
I dont get it.
What happened to the creativity?
What happen to the fairness?
What happened to being valued as a model?
I thought it might be one or two douchebag photographers out there, but from what I'm gathering its alot more than that. What gives? Do you think if you were on a movie,even if you did it for free the editor would give you the raw footage from the entire video shoot?
signed ,a douchebag photographer who only gives 5 edited images and strangely enuf most models seem to be happy with it,if you ever had a model try to edit one of your photos in some crappy program it might make more sense
Photographer
pullins photography
Posts: 5884
Troy, Michigan, US
ArtisticVisions wrote:
Do you think if you were on a movie,even if you did it for free the editor would give you the raw footage from the entire video shoot?
signed ,a douchebag photographer who only gives 5 edited images and strangely enuf most models seem to be happy with it yeah! next time I'm an extra a movie set, I'm going to the director and ask for the director's cut because I was in the movie!
|
Then you can make the calls. 
