matthew turner images wrote:
What is the legal age for a model to pose nude, or better yet, what is the appropriate age that a photographer can ask a model to pose nude? I was thinking 18, but then I was thinking 21. Not sure which one is "legal". I have some ideas that I feel would work great with the model either nude, or semi nude, but feel like an old pervert asking an 18 year old to take their clothing off. Comments?

In general in the US anyone can legally pose nude at any age as long as it's "simple nudity" and there's no sexual content or "lascivious display of the genitals."
In some states (New York, for instance) there're even state laws allowing more leeway at younger ages to permit things like the common use in fashion of 16 & 17 year olds being topless.  Since "sexual content" and "lascivious display" are hard to define many people choose not to work with people under 18 to avoid risk, but there's no bright legal line at 18.

The issue with 18 vs. 21 is that (and there's a great thread going on this) the age of majority at which someone may legally enter in to a contract or sign a release is 18 in most states but up to 21 in a few (like 5) others.  In the states where the age of majority is >18 it's perfectly legal to photograph someone over 18 in any context including the aforementioned sexual.lascivious ones, but they also have the right to unilaterally void your release/contract to USE said images by withdrawing their consent.

So basically as long as you stick to 18+ (and follow applicable things like 256/2257 laws depending on your content) models you won't have any issues with the images THEMSELVES, you just have to be aware of "age of majority" issues depending on your state, the state where you shoot (if traveling), and the model's home state.

matthew turner images wrote:
What is the legal age for a model to pose nude, or better yet, what is the appropriate age that a photographer can ask a model to pose nude? I was thinking 18, but then I was thinking 21. Not sure which one is "legal". I have some ideas that I feel would work great with the model either nude, or semi nude, but feel like an old pervert asking an 18 year old to take their clothing off. Comments?

Man, you have opened a can of worms.
There is no "right" answer to this question.
As to what is "legal" that varies from state to state, and even then it is not clear cut.

Too many variables to give a proper answer to this.

ONE of the many aspects involved here is age of majority.
This thread might help you some with that:
https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=426259

ANOTHER of the many aspects has to do with the laws surrounding types of images. This thread might help you some with that:
https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=426114

matthew turner images wrote:
What is the legal age for a model to pose nude, or better yet, what is the appropriate age that a photographer can ask a model to pose nude? I was thinking 18, but then I was thinking 21. Not sure which one is "legal". I have some ideas that I feel would work great with the model either nude, or semi nude, but feel like an old pervert asking an 18 year old to take their clothing off. Comments?

In many states it is 18...but my advice is for you to seek legal advice about this from your attorney.

BlueDancer Digital wrote:
It's 18, and don't let anyone tell you that there are circumstances when it's okay to work with a nude model younger than that. As for how you'll feel asking her to undress for the shoot - that's something that should be discussed between the two of you long before she arrives on the set, so, when the time comes, it won't be any surprise.

  Right, because heaven forbid we should tell someone the FACTS.
What you said is NOT LEGALLY VALID.
I defy you to produce a law that says otherwise, federal or state.

It is RISKY, in many cases, to shoot a minor nude and might bring you really unwanted legal attention that could ruin you even if you're exonerated.

But it's NOT illegal and there're plenty of instances (such as my previous mention of fashion material with topless 16 & 17 year olds, or nudist publications with shots of families together in the nude) where it's perfectly legal & allowed.

Telling someone it's risky is one thing, telling someone there're NO circumstances where it's legal/ok is false.

Marcia Wood wrote:
In the US in some states you have to be 21 to sign a contract and have it be legally binding.Check the state laws.

Since I also mentioned age of majority I looked it up.  I knew it was only 5 places in the US where it wasn't 18, turns out it's 4 states & the District of Columbia.
However, I said >18 because it's 19 in some of those places, not 21:
19 in Nebraska and Alabama
21 in Mississippi, New York and the District of Columbia

SLE Photography wrote:
It is RISKY, in many cases, to shoot a minor nude ....
... Telling someone it's risky is one thing, telling someone there're NO circumstances where it's legal/ok is false.

Fair enough. Shame on me for attempted brevity and overcautiousness.
I won't be shooting anyone under 18. That's my advice to anyone else.

BlueDancer Digital wrote:
It's 18, and don't let anyone tell you that there are circumstances when it's okay to work with a nude model younger than that. As for how you'll feel asking her to undress for the shoot - that's something that should be discussed between the two of you long before she arrives on the set, so, when the time comes, it won't be any surprise.

Good luck!

- Dan

You are wrong.
My father took nude photos of me and my sister (in the same shot no less ) when we were under the age 3!

Mountain Image wrote:
Not to duck the issue, but recognize that there are more than enough 21+ ladies out there to preclude getting into a hornet's nest like this. I would just drop the idea until she turns 21 or find someone else. It is not worth the hassle.

The ONLY issue with her being 21 is if you live in, are shooting in, or the model is a legal resident of one of the 3 places in the US where she can withdraw consent to use the images if she's under 21.

You WILL NOT be in legal trouble for taking or displaying images, you simply may no longer be able to USE the images commercially.

matthew turner images wrote:
What is the legal age for a model to pose nude, or better yet, what is the appropriate age that a photographer can ask a model to pose nude? I was thinking 18, but then I was thinking 21. Not sure which one is "legal". I have some ideas that I feel would work great with the model either nude, or semi nude, but feel like an old pervert asking an 18 year old to take their clothing off. Comments?

36 - play it safe.

Christopher Hartman wrote:
36 - play it safe.

I knew I was getting old this past weekend when I shot nudes of a model (at her request, I might add) who wasn't born until after I graduated high school & I stopped to think "boy, this's a little weird."

SLE Photography wrote:
Telling someone it's risky is one thing, telling someone there're NO circumstances where it's legal/ok is false.

It is risky, and I for one, would not have any interest in shooting it.  The risk is a good enough reason to just say "no."

I agree with you though.  All too many here make up laws and statutes.  There is a great deal of risk to that as well.

BlueDancer Digital wrote:

Fair enough. Shame on me for attempted brevity and overcautiousness.
I won't be shooting anyone under 18. That's my advice to anyone else.

My advice is don't drive you could be killed in car wrecks.  Let's keep the probability of problems in perspective shall we?

In GENERAL most places I'm the US have no laws against images of non-sexual nudity at any age. I think there are a couple of jurisdictions this might be a grey area depending on the parents etc.

IF the images are NOT sexual in nature and are done I'm a professional manner the likelyhood of any problems is very very low.  I'd say about the same likelyhood of having issues with a 25yr old model accusing you of something.  Do you worry about that as well?

And who the hell started this topic while I was stuck ok my damned iPhone.  I see sore thumbs in my future.

CGI Images wrote:
IF the images are NOT sexual in nature and are done I'm a professional manner the likelyhood of any problems is very very low.  I'd say about the same likelyhood of having issues with a 25yr old model accusing you of something.  Do you worry about that as well?

I am remembered of a situation in Orange County, CA a few years ago where a thirteen year old girl had her picture taken topless with her mother, who was also topless.   The photo was shot by a woman. 

When the film got to the lab, the tech called the police, who then contacted the photographer, who then released the photos to the press, who then put the picture of the 13 year old on the news with a thumb covering up her breasts.

I wonder if the girl ever expected a private photo taken with her mother to make the evening news?  The following day was probably interesting at school.

Nobody was arrested, but it was an interesting story.

ei Total Productions wrote:
I am remembered of a situation in Orange County, CA a few years ago where a thirteen year old girl had her picture taken topless with her mother, who was also topless.   The photo was shot by a woman. 

When the film got to the lab, the tech called the police, who then contacted the photographer, who then released the photos to the press, who then put the picture of the 13 year old on the news with a thumb covering up her breasts.

I wonder if the girl ever expected a private photo taken with her mother to make the evening news?  The following day was probably interesting at school.

Nobody was arrested, but it was an interesting story.

Well that is one of the great hypocrasies of our society.  They jump all over any story involving young girls and sexuality because they know it's a huge instant ratings boost. Often, in my opinion exploiting the girls worse than what happened in the first place.

Southpark again comes to mind in the episode where they busted the scout leader for molesting the boys and it was on the evening news.

"And horrifically adding to his crime he took pictures of the young boys in sexual acts which we will now show you repeatedly.  Like this one here....here..Here and here...,, oh here's a good one here"

BlueDancer Digital wrote:
It's 18, and don't let anyone tell you that there are circumstances when it's okay to work with a nude model younger than that.

No circumstances at all?

BlueDancer Digital wrote:
It's 18, and don't let anyone tell you that there are circumstances when it's okay to work with a nude model younger than that. As for how you'll feel asking her to undress for the shoot - that's something that should be discussed between the two of you long before she arrives on the set, so, when the time comes, it won't be any surprise.

Good luck!

- Dan

LOL,  you might as well tell him red cars are illegal and don't let anyone tell you differently.

Seriously, next you will say simply possesing naked pictures of young girls is illegal.

Christopher Hartman wrote:
36 - play it safe.

dammit! beat me to it!

Himes Media wrote:
Cinncinatti even shut down a showing of his works because of the "homosexual" poses perseved by many "christian and/or conservative" citizens.

And the museum curator was acquitted when the matter went to trial.  What is your point?

CoyoteAl wrote:
You first need to think about these two questions:

1. You want some iced tea?

2. Will you please take a seat over here?

So you would equate the legal activity of say taking nude images of say a 13yr old with the illegal act of trying to pork said 13yr old?

CGI Images wrote:
So you would equate the legal activity of say taking nude images of say a 13yr old with the illegal act of trying to pork said 13yr old?

It always happens in these threads.

Over a year and a half ago, on a similar thread, I wrote the following, which remains true:

TXPhotog wrote:
This  has to be the 500th thread on this subject.  And it's just getting started.  Predictable things happen in each one of them:

1.  Someone will claim that it's illegal to shoot minors without a parent present, or without parental written permission.  When challenged to show us the law, they get aggressive about not needing no steekin' law, 'cause it's just obvious.

2.  Someone will opine that you should just wait until she is 18.

3.  Someone will claim that anyone who shoots minors for any reason is a perv.

4.  Someone will claim that if a parent signs a release, the shoot is legal, but it's not legal without a release.

5.  Someone will insist that the entire damned National Guard of their state has to be present to protect . . . uh . . . someone.

6.  Someone will invoke kiddie porn, even though the planned shoot is stated to be fully clothed and age-appropriate.

7.  Someone will simply say "Ewwwww!" as though that defined a law of nature.

And there will be much more.  All of the above are bullshit, all are passionately believed and brought forth as Obvious, Self-Evident Truth by the true believers, and the conversation will go to hell in a handbasket.

It simply is not possible to have a rational discussion of photography and minors on this forum.  There are too many strongly held views, too much paranoia, too much misinformation, and too many people determined to keep all of that in circulation.

Jenna Black wrote:
Nonsexual nude modeling is legal (in the US) at any age. Under 18 (in most states) requires a parent's presence and permission.

. . . .

Edit: given the above post, I will say that my use of "requires" above is that an adult is required to sign a release form, and anyone who wants to take naked pictures of someone else's kid without a release form is ASKING for trouble. Most states do not accept a ten-year-old's signature on a contract (such as a release) as legally binding.

Model releases are permission  for certain types of uses of pictures.  To suggest that a model release needs to be signed for all shoots, regardless of the age of the model, is a grave error.

The person authorized to sign a release, if one is required, is not required to be present for the shoot.

I know of no state in which a parent is required to be present for a shoot of a minor (although in places like California, for certain commercial shoots, they may be).

SLE Photography wrote:

  Right, because heaven forbid we should tell someone the FACTS.
What you said is NOT LEGALLY VALID.
I defy you to produce a law that says otherwise, federal or state.

It is RISKY, in many cases, to shoot a minor nude and might bring you really unwanted legal attention that could ruin you even if you're exonerated.

But it's NOT illegal and there're plenty of instances (such as my previous mention of fashion material with topless 16 & 17 year olds, or nudist publications with shots of families together in the nude) where it's perfectly legal & allowed.

Telling someone it's risky is one thing, telling someone there're NO circumstances where it's legal/ok is false.

I have to chime in to this, and SLE, I took up your challenge and you are correct (not that this surprises you, but it does surprise me)
I scrubbed every court session I could find on the internet.

But to continue to kick a dead horse... I shoot 18+. but to each his own.

Jenna Black wrote:
It is not advisable to employ a nude model under the age of 18 because legality depends on the content being nonsexual, and in cases of peripubescent and post-pubescent-but-still-underage models, you run a higher risk of someone thinking your art is meant as smut. Even if it's not, an FBI investigation means confiscation of ALL your computers for months or years. I have only worked with an underage nude model once. I had known her mother for several years, and when she turned 16 she wanted to do a blacklight nude shoot. We did the shoot, and she swiftly found herself being stalked, and decided not to continue modeling. I can't say I blame her.

I agree with the "not advisable" part, and here's why:
https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=133295

Lady had her life RUINED.

But legal, yeah.