Erin Holmes wrote:
I guess I'm a horrible model.

i have no problem with your horror.

C Mirene wrote:
Sounds to me that your photographer acquaintance has issues.

x2

I've had good and bad experiences with models who are also strippers. 

I've had good and bad experiences with models who are not also strippers.

And, just because a model is also a stripper is no guarantee that they will model nude, or be comfortable with the idea of nude photos being public.

paul hart wrote:
Another thing that may have made that other photographer put down strippers is that strippers have a knowlege that being nude is a valuable commodity that other people pay for and they would likewise be unlikey to pose nude for a photographer for TFP.

I've done TF shoots with several strippers.

7imaging wrote:
Generally,I wont work with them. In my experiences, they are the most likely type of model to 'flake'.  Very unreliable. Im sure there are some out there that are on top of their game, and come to a shoot to work - maybe even on time. But I haven't met any...

I've had very good experiences with some, frustrating experiences with one stripper who is also a fantastic model (not that I got to actually shoot with her), and in one case, a good shoot but bizarre things afterward.

rdallasPhotography wrote:
This is directed mainly to the models.

I was attending a workshop and during a side conversation with the photographer running the workshop, when we talked about who make good models, he commented that “strippers” make terrible models. Now his term includes anyone who dances, including bikini dances.

What he said really surprised me…the reason they make terrible models is because that clearly do not like themselves because “any woman who would willing be in that business must have issues. No ‘normal’ woman would do anything like that.”

Obviously I don’t know how many part time models belong to this site but aside from being dead wrong, it was an incredibly narrow minded and insulting to people who for their own personal and financial reasons choose this perfectly legal line of work. He went further and said that it says a lot about the photographer in that the stripper doesn’t like herself and knows that ‘you’ the photographer is desperate enough to stuff money in her pants.”

This photographer is very popular and is good but his presumptions are, in my mind, nonsense and grossly judgmental. Using absolutes to describe a entire group of people without knowing their situation is overly simplistic. I won’t mention his name but he is located in Pennsylvania. Ironically he shoots nudes yet seems to have issues with someone who dances, whether it's stripping, topless or staying covered to a greater degree than many people on the beach.

I’d like to hear serious views to his opinions, particularly from models, regardless of what other work some part time models might do.

As someone that dances, I can say that your photographer friend is a judgemental idiot.

rdallasPhotography wrote:
I won’t mention his name but he is located in Pennsylvania.

Maybe he is henpecked and his wife won't let him
go to those places.

Dark Shadows wrote:
I want to work with a stripper. How do I find one outside of a 'club environment' in order to proposition her?  Pretty difficult.

model mayhem

Liteguy wrote:
Even though you wanted responses from models, it seems only photographers have responded. So, I will add to the list.

Dancers ROCK! Dancers of any genre from erotic to ballet. They not only know where their bodies are, they, more often than not, have a confidence level not found in a lot of non dancers. That confidence comes through in the shot.

I can shoot a erotic dancer who is fully dressed and still get a great shot just because of she knows how to work the camera.

I have also found this to be true with models who have a dance background but haven't danced in some time.

Whoever told you otherwise might need to deal with his own issues and perceptions.

this has been my experience. Body awareness goes a long way in terms of better poses in general. My best shoots seem to be with 'artists' and 'performers'....

Dark Shadows wrote:
I want to work with a stripper. How do I find one outside of a 'club environment' in order to proposition her?  Pretty difficult.

Good luck with that.

It took me a LONG time before they trusted me enough to shoot them. The clients that go to clubs and say they are photogs are GWCs.

I don't shoot dancers or models nude unless they request it or the shot calls for it. I treat them with repect. I never touch any one sitting for me. I have a very good rep. It took a long time to get and and a second to loose it.

The best part of shooting dancers is that you can get a list shot list from when they are on stage.

Tip: Wanna find the best dancers go to the best clubs. The dancers were beautiful and the shoots were great from the lower class clubs. But some of the best were from high end places.

Once again Pole Dancers are not strippers.
A pole dancer will hang on a spinning pole by one knee take off her top and flip off in one motion and land on 8 inch heals ... while drunk ... try that some time. They have an act the will amaze you. Also a HUGE wardrobe and makeup kit. They usualy have 2 - 4 bags of dance stuff they bring to the club.

Strippers just take off their cloths and shake their stuff. I never shot any of this type.

I would love to shoot Gaga and the Dolls. Those are artists..

Courtny and Nicole in the later days. Umm .... no thanks.

Tim Hammond wrote:

Moral 1 of the story: being a good photographer and being a bigoted prick are not mutually exclusive.

Moral 2 of the story: being talented and successful and being a decent human being are not inherently linked.

LOL! I like that!

LaViolette wrote:

As someone that dances, I can say that your photographer friend is a judgemental idiot.

Please don't say that! He is definitely not my friend. In fact he said I am no longer welcome to any of his workshops, anywhere. Not that I'd even go again knowing his bigotry. He shoots nudes but has issues with strippers and photographers who shoot them.

ENRIGHTOGRAPHY wrote:
his opinions are his business not yours or ours.

your opinion of his opinion is your business not ours.

his photographic skills, now that is worth discussing.

the rest is just opinion, it's not real.

the truth is some strippers make great models, some don't, but everybody with half a brain knows that.

Really? Let me share something he wrote to me in an email after I mentioned that I was setting up a second shoot with a pole dancer/stripper and wanted to discuss some ideas and get advice...i.e. discuss photography. Instead he writes this:

His email:
I don't respect what you are trying to do.  By your own admission you are still trying to shoot the stripper.  She is NOT and NEVER will be a model.  You will NOT be able to get good images of this woman because she doesn't like who she is and she knows you as someone desperate enough to put money in her pants.  It is what it is.

Dubz Photography wrote:
what kind of modeling are we talking about?

I was setting up outdoor shoots. Fully clothed. Nothing remotely sexual. His area is glamor photography and he mostly is hired by models for their ports. And that includes glamor, nudes, whatever the session calls for.

Dark Shadows wrote:
I want to work with a stripper. How do I find one outside of a 'club environment' in order to proposition her?  Pretty difficult.

Go to a club with a business card for your photography activities and hand them out. 90% of the cards will end up on the floor while the girl tries to hustle you for a lap dance or a couple of dances in the VIP, but one or two might call you.

There are also more dancers right here at MM than you probably know. In fact, I am aware of several who do quite a bit more than dance.

paul hart wrote:
Another thing that may have made that other photographer put down strippers is that strippers have a knowlege that being nude is a valuable commodity that other people pay for and they would likewise be unlikey to pose nude for a photographer for TFP.

Except that we weren't talking about nudity...just getting a good set of shots.

MerrillMedia wrote:
Go to a club with a business card for your photography activities and hand them out. 90% of the cards will end up on the floor while the girl tries to hustle you for a lap dance or a couple of dances in the VIP, but one or two might call you.

Well the reason I specifically mentioned 'outside of a club environment', is that I am not willing to go inside a strip club for exactly the reasons you alluded to. The girls are like 'grifters' and the people that go into the clubs are their 'marks'.

So I would have to find some way to connect outside of the club.

Dark Shadows wrote:

Well the reason I specifically mentioned 'outside of a club environment', is that I am not willing to go inside a strip club for exactly the reasons you alluded to. The girls are like 'grifters' and the people that go into the clubs are their 'marks'.

So I would have to find some way to connect outside of the club.

Go find the "stripper wear" shops in your area and offer to do a few photos for the owner in exchange for putting you business cards on the counter.

Jay Anthony wrote:
Sounds like he got dumped by a stripper.

Bing Bing Bing..~~>We have a winner!

Yay for stripper wear! I just won a contest that got me $150 to fascinations I can't wait...think I can afford something latex?

rdallasPhotography wrote:
I was attending a workshop and during a side conversation with the photographer running the workshop, when we talked about who make good models, he commented that “strippers” make terrible models. Now his term includes anyone who dances, including bikini dances.

As a demographic, I tend to agree, but it depends on the person, and the city we are talking about.

For what reasons? I don't know or care. It's just the demographic.

---

Around here in San Diego, strip clubs are low quality rip-off dives. The women get hammered by low life's who hang out in dives. Lots are neurotic or screwed up with other emotional issues. Drugs are rampant. They are often sick or unhealthy. Exploitative thugs run the joints. It's a shallow game populated by shallow people.

Not a good pond to fish.

---

I know models or even porn models who have ventured into this milieu because they are desperate for a job or money, but hate it for reasons that make sense.

In my humble experience in San Diego, MODELS who strip or explore life in that direction are as good as any other models. I welcome models who are adventurous and free spirited. Part-timers are like anyone else.

Hard core strippers, escorts, hookers who venture into modeling tend to be irresponsible and flaky, and often have issues. Out of control tweekers are among the worst. People who need weed to cope or cocaine to find their personality are usually more trouble than they are worth. I don't want them near my house or studio. It's not worth the risk. It's not worth the headache.

---

I'm not casting any moral judgment here.

It's just a matter of fact, by my own experience.

Anywhere we go in life, we can find good people and bad people.

Neil Snape wrote:
Yet the look in the faces was always a long way off from what a good model can give. OR more natural poses,etc.

love this
so true except 

Whisky a GoGo in woodbridge.
gives good face.

DA PHOTO wrote:
Whisky a GoGo in woodbridge.
gives good face.

They have Rita Hayworth?

Greg Scott wrote:
i'll share an observation I have had with this, strippers as models.

you generally have 2 types of women in that industry... (this isnt an absolute, but its close and actually its not limited to that industry, this is kind of a universal truism so to speak)

group 1, the predominant group in the stripper/dancer industry, are women with low self esteem, and low self worth. they are generally the women that attach themselves to a guy thats just about the lowest form of human out there, and they thrive to be with him until he kicks them to the curb. When he does, if they meet someone that treats them right, they treat him the same as they were treated by their ex, right up until the ex says ok ill take you back just this once, in which she will poo all over a guy that treats her like a decent human and run like they are on fire to the guy that shits all over and uses them..... after they take the nice guy for all they can. this group is typically pharmaceutically dependent also. 

group 2, is a smaller group but these are business women. they are self reliant, have high self esteem, have high ethical oppinions, are reliable, trustworthy, I dare say normal in terms of relationship standards. its just a job, for them a fun job, where they make ALOT of money, retire comfortably early, and have a great life full of friends, travel, adventure, and substancial monetary gains because what they make, it doesnt go "up their nose" or to support some lowlife pos sitting on the couch with no job (what group 1 supports)

none of the above is an absolute, but its not too far off.

group 1, makes completely horrid models, if you can get them to do it at all. If they choose to do it on here, they are the flakiest of the flakes. If they dont choose to do it here and you approach them, good luck. I have literally experienced something that blows my mind about them also... they will run around for hours ass naked in front of 200 people, but absolutely will not give you the time of the day if you mention nude modeling. And relying on them to be some where at time X? Good luck, flake doesnt begin to cover it, just like models on here that arent strippers/dancers but has couch boy in their life. So its not exclusive to strippers, just the mentality.

group 2, makes the best models around. they are on time, they have a personality, they have fun with the shoot, and you dont have to worry about half your things disappearing while they are there. Its a business to them. A fun business, but its a job and they treat it as such.

now a small piece of advice, escorts on the other hand, predominantly make the best models in terms of reliability. They love TF*, they show up on time, take care of themselves, are very comfortable and secure... in that industry, group 2 is the larger type. the ones that are a group 1 type, you would think, would be dominant as a group in that industry, but reality is, they get ran out of there fast. If they work for an "agency" they get ran out quick because of drama and reliability, along with word of mouth, if they are an independent, word of mouth spreads fast on the "client" side and they get blackballed (no pun intended) pdq.

This person possesses wisdom. I can validate it from my personal experience.

Martin Philippo wrote:
Strippers are just like  people: some are great models, others are not.

Hmmm I think this is my opinion

EDIT:  bbcode is not my friend, I tried to strike through "like"

Strippers are just people: some are great models, others are not.

rdallasPhotography wrote:
I’d like to hear serious views to his opinions, particularly from models, regardless of what other work some part time models might do.

Photographer here (definitely no model!).

The instructor definitely sounds butthurt. I'm guessing he got shot down by a stripper he propositioned. He refuses to deal with strippers or even with photographers who work with them? I'd challenge the guy to identify the stripper from a collection of photos.

Prestons Perceptions wrote:

Hmmm I think this is my opinion

EDIT:  bbcode is not my friend, I tried to strike through "like"

Strippers are just people: some are great models, others are not.

I realize I should have written: strippers are like all other people.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. In Dutch it sounded much better.