Forums > Photography Talk > Usage Agreements, too restrictive?

Photographer

Stanley L Moore

Posts: 1681

Houston, Texas, US

I have a paid shoot set up for tomorrow and today the guys's agent or co=model as he calls himself sent me an "agreement" for me to sign. See below. It eve requires my date and place of birth and to me seems very restroctove. In addition I got a PDF showing all photos in my port he does not wan t to do.
FYI this uss NOT  a nude shoot.
Since I am paying I don't want him controlling the pics I make.. Naturally I would not do any they he feklt uncomnfortabek with. If HE were paying ME I might be inclined to sign this but not when I am oaying. The agreement forbids my posting them on MM or using them in any of my portfolios.

My query is, How common are these agreements which are all one sided in favor if the mdel. Do models expect ot get work with such restrictioins on the employer? Thoughts anyone?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
TEXT OF AGREEMENT
----------------------------------------------------------------------
PHOTO SHOOT AGREEMENT

For good and valuable consideration as detailed herein and below, I,     __XXXXXXX__________________, “stage” name _______________________ hereinafter referred to as the MODEL, and I, ____YYYYYYYY-______________________, “stage” name _________________________ hereinafter referred to as the CO-MODEL, and I, _____Stanley Moore__________________, “business” name _______________________, hereinafter referred to as the PHOTOGRAPHER, enter into this agreement regulating the ownership and use of photographs and derivative works based thereupon (collectively hereafter the "PHOTOS") taken by Photographer of Model on the date of ________May 12th, 2012_________________________ for all lawful purposes, subject to the terms and conditions described below.
This two-page agreement, is offered by the MODEL named hereinabove under the following terms:
FOR PARTIAL NUDE, FULL NUDE, ARTISTIC, IMPLIED and NON-NUDE IMAGES:
1.    The PHOTOGRAPHER will pay for any and all photographic (film and/or digital/electronic) supplies and/or (shooting time and film development) services and/or any other expenses in exchange for the PHOTOGRAPHER’S services.
2.    The PHOTOTGRAPHER will pay the MODEL $   $50       per hour/per day.
3.    All images of the MODEL shall be sent by U.S. Mail, or in hand, to the MODEL in the form of film slides, 4” x 6”, 5” x 7” or 8” x 10” prints, or digitized images on compact disc (CD) or Digital Versatile Disc (DVD) at a minimum of 1000 pixels high or wide, or any combination thereof, saved at the highest quality, at the MODEL’S expense within _2__ week(s) from said photo shoot listed in this release.
4.    Any PHOTO(s) of the MODEL, in whole or in part in its factual format, including, but not limited to digital format, MAY NOT be used in the advertising and/or publicity, including print, film/video, radio, or digital/electronic portfolios (internet/intranet), for the work of the PHOTOGRAPHER unless MODEL provides written consent.
5.    Any PHOTO(s) of the MODEL, in whole or in part, MAY be used and/or reproduced by the MODEL at will and/or by his/her modeling agencies/managers in the course of the MODEL’S self-promotion as a model.
6.    Any image(s) of the MODEL, in whole or in part, provided from the PHOTOGRAPHER’S work, as outlined in this agreement, SHALL NOT be made available for commercial or private use to any person or entity.  If the PHOTOGRAPHER and the MODEL mutually agree that certain images have potential commercial use, a separate agreement shall be signed by both parties to outline such use.
7.    Should the PHOTOGRAPHER intentionally, negligently, or otherwise release or be the source of the release or disclosure of the PHOTOS to any third party without prior written consent from MODEL, the PHOTOGRAPHER shall indemnify the Disclosing Party from any and all losses, claims, damages, attorney’s fees, court costs, response and recovery costs and other costs, of whatever kind or nature, resulting from such release or disclosure. 
8.    This Agreement shall be governed by the laws of the State of Texas
Photographer Initials ______ Model Initials ______ Co-Model Initials _______


PHOTO SHOOT AGREEMENT
(continued)
TO BE COMPLETED BY THE MODEL:
By signing this agreement, I certify that I am age ____, born on month, day and year of  ____________________ in the city and state of ______________________________.
Model’s Signature:                           __    ____ Date: ____/____/____

Printed Name:                                            _____

Stage Name:                                            _____

Address:                                            _____

Phone(s):                                            _____

Email:                                                 _____

TO BE COMPLETED BY THE PHOTOGRAPHER:
By signing this agreement, I certify that I am age ____, born on month, day and year of  ____________________ in the city and state of ______________________________.
Photographer’s Signature:                       __    ____ Date: ____/____/____
Printed Name:                                            _____
Company Name:                                        _____
Address:                                            _____
Phone(s):                                            _____
Email:                                                _____

TO BE COMPLETED BY THE WITNESS:
By signing this agreement, I certify that I am age ____, born on month, day and year of  ____________________ in the city and state of ______________________________.
Co-Model’s Signature:                           __    ____ Date: ____/____/____
Printed Name:                                            _____
Company Name:                                        _____
Address:                                            _____
Phone(s):                                            _____
Email:                                                _____
.........................................................

May 11 12 10:05 am Link

Photographer

ontherocks

Posts: 23575

Salem, Oregon, US

next

May 11 12 10:07 am Link

Photographer

S

Posts: 21678

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US

To sum up:

You're paying the model, providing printed photos, signing a usage license that allows the model to do whatever, but restricts what you can do?

hmm

May 11 12 10:09 am Link

Photographer

DeniseRegan Photography

Posts: 1265

Nashville, Tennessee, US

IMO, it looks like this was copied and pasted and he didn't bother to edit.

You should print this, bring it with you, and write amendments. Then he can initial the amendments and you can sign.

Is this person who sent you the agreement just starting out?

May 11 12 10:14 am Link

Photographer

DeniseRegan Photography

Posts: 1265

Nashville, Tennessee, US

It's not out of the question to consult a lawyer if you have one. This almost looks like a work-for-hire agreement, where you sign away all your rights to the images.

May 11 12 10:16 am Link

Model

Randal Scott

Posts: 449

Los Angeles, California, US

The advice so regularly offered on MM to models: If you don't agree to the terms, don't do the shoot.

Whats good for the goose...?

May 11 12 10:20 am Link

Photographer

Mike Adams Photos

Posts: 1217

Cleveland, Ohio, US

hartcons wrote:
next

+1

May 11 12 10:20 am Link

Photographer

American Glamour

Posts: 38813

Detroit, Michigan, US

Randal Scott wrote:
The advice so regularly offered on MM to models: If you don't agree to the terms, don't do the shoot.

Whats good for the goose...?

+1, I don't even know why the OP is still considering the shoot.

May 11 12 10:29 am Link

Photographer

Leonard Gee Photography

Posts: 18096

Sacramento, California, US

Stanley L Moore wrote:
1.    The PHOTOGRAPHER will pay for any and all photographic (film and/or digital/electronic) supplies and/or (shooting time and film development) services and/or any other expenses in exchange for the PHOTOGRAPHER’S services.

Why would you pay for expenses "in exchange" for your own services? Very funny stipulation that makes no sense.

Stanley L Moore wrote:
2.    The PHOTOTGRAPHER will pay the MODEL $   $50       per hour/per day.

$50 per day is a nice option

Stanley L Moore wrote:
7.    Should the PHOTOGRAPHER intentionally, negligently, or otherwise release or be the source of the release or disclosure of the PHOTOS to any third party without prior written consent from MODEL, the PHOTOGRAPHER shall indemnify the Disclosing Party from any and all losses, claims, damages, attorney’s fees, court costs, response and recovery costs and other costs, of whatever kind or nature, resulting from such release or disclosure.

This is rather interesting. Would love to see a court interpret the circular nonsense. They could, like the point 1, just say it makes no sense. Or they could say, well, it was a mistake and the contract should have said "model" instead of "Disclosing Party", which was the intent. I wouldn't bet on it.

Would a court try to correct the mistakes or simply invalidate the entire contract? Who knows.

Stanley L Moore wrote:
Usage Agreements, too restrictive?

It's not restrictive. It's improper contract with impossible demands written by someone who has no idea of what they are doing.

May 11 12 10:39 am Link

Photographer

DeniseRegan Photography

Posts: 1265

Nashville, Tennessee, US

ei Total Productions wrote:
+1, I don't even know why the OP is still considering the shoot.

EDIT:

May 11 12 10:41 am Link

Photographer

Looknsee Photography

Posts: 26342

Portland, Oregon, US

No -- that is not just restrictive, it is unreasonable.  If you are paying the model, you should have the option to recover your expenses through sales or licenses, which may include commercial purposes.

Being a "let the universe educate the people" kind of person, I would simply cut off communications immediately.  If asked, I would simply say, "no, thank you".  If asked why you are not interested, I would simply point out that the model's usage license doesn't interest me.

May 11 12 10:43 am Link

Photographer

studio36uk

Posts: 22898

Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna

Here you go. Just send this back to them

https://studio36.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sa.jpg

Simples

Studio36

May 11 12 10:45 am Link

Photographer

K E E L I N G

Posts: 39894

Peoria, Illinois, US

ei Total Productions wrote:
+1, I don't even know why the OP is still considering the shoot.

DeniseRegan Photography wrote:
Cause he may need the money?

The photographer is paying the model, not the other way around.

May 11 12 10:49 am Link

Photographer

Photographe

Posts: 2351

Bristol, England, United Kingdom

Reading that is a job itself.

Just explain politely that you are funding, producing and directing the shoot and not in a position to release your work and that if they wish to cancel to do so now, so you can organize the 2nd option model before tomorrow morning.

When they see it's not negotiable and they will lose the actual modelling work, I doubt you will hear a squeak again.

Also a second point.

If the shoot was already drawn up, agreed upon, then escort boyfriends, co-models and grandmothers can not start muscling in at a later stage. Deal directly with the model and continue to do so.

May 11 12 10:50 am Link

Photographer

DeniseRegan Photography

Posts: 1265

Nashville, Tennessee, US

K E E L I N G wrote:

ei Total Productions wrote:
+1, I don't even know why the OP is still considering the shoot.

The photographer is paying the model, not the other way around.

Yeah, I just went back and read the OP again...."/

To the OP: you're the boss here. Just bring your own agreement. Bring a printed copy of the model/agent agreement and make written revisions.

Good luck.

May 11 12 10:53 am Link

Photographer

studio36uk

Posts: 22898

Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna

Rollo David Snook wrote:
Just explain politely that you are funding, producing and directing the shoot and not in a position to release your work and that if they wish to cancel to do so now, so you can organize the 2nd option model before tomorrow morning.

Why bother with, and even waste your breath on, any explanation when a simple "FUCK OFF" will do?

https://studio36.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/adit.jpg

Studio36

May 11 12 10:54 am Link

Photographer

Epicos

Posts: 51

Memphis, Tennessee, US

studio36uk wrote:
Here you go. Just send this back to them

https://studio36.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sa.jpg

Simples

Studio36

+1

I am all about the simples

May 11 12 10:56 am Link

Photographer

DeniseRegan Photography

Posts: 1265

Nashville, Tennessee, US

studio36uk wrote:

Why bother with, and even waste your breath on, any explanation when a simple "FUCK OFF" will do?

https://studio36.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/adit.jpg

Studio36

HAHA! If only we could all get through life by telling people how we really feel....

May 11 12 10:57 am Link

Photographer

JM Dean

Posts: 8931

Cary, North Carolina, US

banghead

May 11 12 11:00 am Link

Photographer

Gaze at Photography

Posts: 4371

Hilton Head Island, South Carolina, US

Ummmm, No thank you

May 11 12 11:07 am Link

Photographer

Camerosity

Posts: 5805

Saint Louis, Missouri, US

hartcons wrote:
next

+1

May 11 12 11:10 am Link

Photographer

LilGunz Photography

Posts: 95

Prattville, Alabama, US

DeniseRegan Photography wrote:

Yeah, I just went back and read the OP again...."/

To the OP: you're the boss here. Just bring your own agreement. Bring a printed copy of the model/agent agreement and make written revisions.

Good luck.

+1 I Agree!!!

May 11 12 11:13 am Link

Photographer

studio36uk

Posts: 22898

Tavai, Sigave, Wallis and Futuna

DeniseRegan Photography wrote:
HAHA! If only we could all get through life by telling people how we really feel....

Believe it or not I get paid to do it.   LOL

Studio36

May 11 12 11:13 am Link

Photographer

Camerosity

Posts: 5805

Saint Louis, Missouri, US

Stanley L Moore wrote:
My query is, How common are these agreements which are all one sided in favor if the mdel. Do models expect ot get work with such restrictioins on the employer? Thoughts anyone?

Normally the photographer hands the model a release to sign.

If it's a TF shoot, I give the model the option of signing a promotional release or a full release. (Some models who want to be published sign the full release.)

If the model will or may be signing the full release, I send her this in advance:

>> I use the ASMP (American Society of Media Photographers, formerly American Society of Magazine Photographers) release. Although it has been updated from time to time, the ASMP release has pretty much been the industry standard model release for publication since at least the 1960's.

You can read the release here:

http://asmp.org/tutorials/adults-model-release.html

You'll have to scroll down to read the release. Mine is the same except it has my name in it, the two example sentences in red have been deleted, and his/her has been changed to his.

May 11 12 11:15 am Link

Photographer

Ken Marcus Studios

Posts: 9421

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

You do NOT need this aggravation . . . . . notify the llama directly and inform him as to why you are canceling the shoot.

It's important for him to know that the contract that his 'agent/representative/etc. sent you is the reason why and that you can find many other llamas to give your money to.

KM

May 11 12 11:18 am Link

Photographer

Digitoxin

Posts: 13456

Denver, Colorado, US

Email the llama directly and tell he llama that the form that the "agent" sent over is utterly, completely and totally unacceptable to you.  Period.  No more discusion.  The document looks to me like it was written by some hack, home-brew, jackass.....Seriously, just look at #1..... The Photograpgher is apparently exchanging services with himself.... Jackass stupid.

Then, cancel the shoot and DO NOT reschedule with this llama under ANY circumstance.  Personally blacklist the llama.  He will likely be as problematic as the "manager".....

Then, notify every single photographer you personally know in your area.  Tell them the story (not a single embellishment... Not one.... Not even a tiny one....just the absolute facts).  Send them this agreement as part of your totally factual discussion.... This "model" will soon disappear.

May 11 12 11:31 am Link

Photographer

Matt Schmidt Photo

Posts: 3709

Charlotte, North Carolina, US

^^^  This above  ^^^

Sita Mae wrote:
To sum up:

You're paying the model, providing printed photos, signing a usage license that allows the model to do whatever, but restricts what you can do?

hmm

+1

I wouldn't shoot with them . . . tell them your lawyer advises against it.

May 11 12 11:40 am Link

Photographer

American Glamour

Posts: 38813

Detroit, Michigan, US

Digitoxin wrote:
Then, notify every single photographer you personally know in your area.  Tell them the story (not a single embellishment... Not one.... Not even a tiny one....just the absolute facts).  Send them this agreement as part of your totally factual discussion.... This "model" will soon disappear.

I agree with you but I probably wouldn't do this.  That often makes the photographer look worse than the model.  Besides, you are opening yourself up if you do that.

Otherwise, you are right on point.

May 11 12 12:04 pm Link

Photographer

Orca Bay Images

Posts: 33877

Arcata, California, US

Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
You do NOT need this aggravation . . . . . notify the model directly and inform him as to why you are canceling the shoot.

It's important for him to know that the contract that his 'agent/representative/etc. sent you is the reason why and that you can find many other models to give your money to.

QFT.

The model may be quite enamoured with his manager's/"co-model's" negotiating skills and utterly oblivious to the damage that document is doing to his career. OP will be doing the young man a huge favor by explaining why he's being passed up.

May 11 12 12:13 pm Link

Photographer

Loki Studio

Posts: 3523

Royal Oak, Michigan, US

Just say "no fucking way". 

This agreement is completely non-standard, written by an amateur, and requires you to pay the llama, provide all images for use for free, and limits your use to non-commercial.  There is no point to paying a llama if you cannot use the images commercially to advertise your business or sell the images to recoup your investment.

You have a full portfolio, why are you paying llamas for any situation where you are not paid by a client? There have to be many more llamas available in your market at reasonable rates without any restrictions.

May 11 12 12:52 pm Link

Photographer

rfordphotos

Posts: 8866

Antioch, California, US

I dont know of anyone who would sign that agreement. No one.

OP- pardon me, but I went back and looked, you seem to run into a LOT of llamas who have extreme demands. Maybe you need to SERIOUSLY examine your approach methods, you MUST be sending these folks some sort of signal that you are a pushover.

Again, pardon me, I tend to be kinda outspoken, but damn man, grow a pair, you shouldnt even need to ask whether this is acceptable, you know damn well it isnt.

Quit being such a doormat. You are paying for a shoot, you should be the one in charge. Find a llama that suits your needs, willing to shoot YOUR concept. Quit fooling around with these wannabe's, hire someone who will work FOR you.

Good Lord.

May 11 12 01:50 pm Link

Photographer

Greg Putman

Posts: 33

Elizabethton, Tennessee, US

Ken Marcus said it best. "there are plenty of other models to give your money too"

May 11 12 01:58 pm Link

Photographer

Brian Scanlon

Posts: 838

Encino, California, US

A "No thank you" is in order.

May 11 12 02:03 pm Link

Photographer

Voy

Posts: 1594

Phoenix, Arizona, US

O.P. Stop working with amateurs.

May 11 12 03:25 pm Link

Photographer

AVD AlphaDuctions

Posts: 10747

Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

I'm going to head downstairs and bring back a can of Sapporo and just groove to this

"The PHOTOGRAPHER will pay for any and all photographic (film and/or digital/electronic) supplies and/or (shooting time and film development) services and/or any other expenses in exchange for the PHOTOGRAPHER’S services. "

gotta love circular logic.  except this ain't even logic. OP gets to pay for their own services. should insert a clause stipulating that AVD's beer (sapporo in a tall can or OB lager in any format) is paid for.

May 11 12 04:55 pm Link

Photographer

Fotografica Gregor

Posts: 4126

Alexandria, Virginia, US

Why would you bother?   The model has never been born that is worth all of that BS - and most of it is a$$-backwards anyway

I provide an image use license with my images (and retained a signed copy) that delineates what a model  or other team member may and may not do with my images - not the other way around....

May 11 12 05:04 pm Link

Photographer

Raven Photography

Posts: 2547

Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

I wouldn't even bother replying back to them. Just forget them smile

May 11 12 05:10 pm Link

Photographer

A M Johnson

Posts: 8024

Las Vegas, Nevada, US

After I got done laughing, I would tell him to go fuck himself. Too much wrong with this to even discuss.

May 11 12 05:19 pm Link

Photographer

Mike Kelcher

Posts: 13322

Minneapolis, Minnesota, US

You can't blame the model for wanting certain things....however....people in hell want ice water too.

May 11 12 08:14 pm Link

Photographer

Mark Salo

Posts: 11725

Olney, Maryland, US

agent = sluggo

The model should sign your model release, not the other way around.  That's why you are paying him.

May 11 12 08:21 pm Link