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Why so few models participate in the forums?
Even in the model's forum it seems to mostly photographers got involved... Maybe I should have place this topic in the model forum, but then mostly photographers would still give their input!! Aug 23 15 01:45 pm Link IMAGINERIES wrote: I think the models are just smart - they don't want to get involved in a pissing match with anyone, and it happens often, in the forums. Aug 23 15 01:49 pm Link Not many people from any of the professional groups participate. I suspect that the people that participate have some personality traits which make the forums interesting to themselves and unpleasant to others. Aug 23 15 01:50 pm Link They're to busy trying to book work! (not that I blame them either) Aug 23 15 01:59 pm Link Don Garrett wrote: +1 Aug 23 15 02:01 pm Link Don Garrett wrote: +1 Aug 23 15 02:04 pm Link Too many others with bullshit opinions (in many instances pulled out of arseholes) that will browbeat, belittle or otherwise bully down any model, who might have a viewpoint other than the ones being touted.  Aug 23 15 02:10 pm Link Perhaps the answer to your question might be right under your nose? https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post/949196 Aug 23 15 02:15 pm Link IMAGINERIES wrote: I call it 'the Photographers Other Forum". IMAGINERIES wrote: I've seen models post messages in the models forum requesting input from other model only, and the photographers still overran the message theads. Your assumption is 100% correct. Aug 23 15 02:24 pm Link Several possibilities above but for my part, I think it is a combination of factors: 1- Models tend to be young and therefore busier than most photographers (who tend to be older) generally with all the scholastic, social and work demands that youth inevitably entails. 2- However lifelong their stated commitment to the art of modeling, most models see modeling (not at all unreasonably) as a short-term proposition. Certainly they tend to have a much shorter shelf-life than photographers. Whether they're in it for the money or the thrill of it all, they very reasonably don't tend to view modeling as a matter for in-depth study. 3- Photographers on the other hand tend to be older and with more freedom to dash off a forum comment or two while sitting at the computer, perhaps to take a break from editing or bookkeeping, both activities that are very much a part of being a photographer, whether a pro or a hobbyist. Then, too, photography is an activity more conducive to in-depth study and learned (or sometimes remarkably un-learned) discussion than is modeling. 4- Models, on the other hand, do most of their prep and follow-up work away from the computer. Things like manicures, hairdresser visits, visits to the gym, etc. are just as legitimately a part of the model's work regimen as are museum and gallery visits, Photoshopping, studying technical manuals are part of the photographer's necessary regimen. Speaking just for myself, I agree that there is nowhere near the participation in the forums that I would like to see on the part of the models. I see the forums as a place to exchange information, sure, but more than that, a place to exchange feelings, attitudes, experiences, ideas and even the occasional bitch or two. Except for the occasional curmudgeon that still pops up from time to time, the forums, in my opinion, (and I spend a lot of time just looking, lurking and learning) have become a more pleasant and more useful place to spend a little time, for both models and photographers, as well as everyone else. I think this is so because of the efforts of the membership as a whole to make it a better place. I'm not overlooking the loudmouths that for so long considered the forums as a private playground where they were free to vent their spleen, nor the harm that they managed to do. Lots of people were turned off and a number left the community. It will take a while to restore civility, but it is happening. It will take time to restore comfort and trust in the community, but each one of us can speed that process by being more welcoming, more accepting and more supportive. With that, I'm sure that we'll see more participation by models, All IMHO as always, of course. ETA an important point: It's called "The Model Colloquy". not "The Model's Forum" . It's intended for "Conversations on...well...modeling", just as "Photography Talk" is intended as a place to "Ask questions, help others, talk shop." We are all welcome and invited to participate in any and all the forums. It's not at all unusual for models to respond from their photography portfolios or for individuals who do both to have only one portfolio on MM. It's important that we not find ourselves following rules that exist only in the misconceptions of a few. Again, IMHO Aug 23 15 02:56 pm Link They all went Fishing. Aug 23 15 03:08 pm Link A year or two ago, the forums had sort of inadvertantly become a pretty hostile environment toward models. Photographers were still "allowed" to discuss things like building their businesses and marketing, but models were getting bullied for addressing these same subjects. Things have improved. I actually feel like I can speak about modeling like a business again and not fear having to deal with taking flack that came from sexism, reverse ageism being subtly expressed through disdain toward models. It's not fixed, and MM will never be the community it was back 5+ years ago. The travel circuit at that time was close-knit, with both models and photographers opening their homes to each other and building what was a pretty strong community vibe. Nor will the forums ever have that culture to represent again. But, it's definitely less hostile than it was, and there seems to be MORE models active on the forums than there was this time last year. That's a good sign at least. Aug 23 15 03:40 pm Link Forum participation is down across the board. Significantly. Aug 23 15 04:18 pm Link Greg Kolack wrote: Greg has a talent for understatement. Aug 23 15 04:27 pm Link - Phil H - wrote: This Aug 23 15 05:34 pm Link Don Garrett wrote: The only way I get to empty my bladder. Aug 23 15 05:45 pm Link 99% of the male photographers are jerks & insult the models to the point where the left the forums. Aug 23 15 06:03 pm Link IMAGINERIES wrote: This is not a problem of the models, this is a problem of (mainly male) photographers jumping in and "mansplaining" to models what models know from first hand experience. It is egregious. I sort of keep an informal tally of questions in the "models' colloquy" that are specifically directed to models and have yet to find one in which the majority of answers do not come from male photographers. Here is just one recent example: Aug 23 15 06:04 pm Link Yeah. Recently learned my lesson. I am honestly surprised at how condescending the photographers are to models in the forums. Don't they sort of need us on their side? Aug 23 15 06:19 pm Link Ivan123 wrote: Good post except this: "a question about models that can only be addressed by models". Not true. There are threads that I stay out of based on who participates. No good can come out of posting in a thread in which (HE) is already active or on a subject in which he/she is likely to become active. Some people treat models poorly, but most that treat people with disrespect, do so without reservation in gender or profession. Intellectual dishonesty, trolling, baiting, outright nastiness: is not directed at just the models. Aug 23 15 06:29 pm Link Ivan123 wrote: Very close: https://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post/814671 Aug 23 15 09:00 pm Link Almost every model I asked was unaware MM had a forum Aug 23 15 09:01 pm Link IMAGINERIES wrote: This!! Aug 23 15 09:08 pm Link How can this be? There is 900,000 Active Members? Dean...Do you have a reason why no one is on MM? Brian..I thought you said there was a 37% Up swing in membership...since the new front page! Aug 23 15 09:11 pm Link How can this be? There is 900,000 Active Members? Dean...Do you have a reason why no one is on MM? Brian..I thought you said there was a 37% Up swing in membership...since the new front page! Aug 23 15 09:11 pm Link I did an experiment a few years ago where I posted one thing from my model account and a few responses later I posted the same thing from my photographer account and got treated very differently. It doesn't matter if I have a MENSA-level IQ (I don't fuck with that bullshit elitist organization but I digress), if I speak 3 languages, or have experience in the real world and give relevant (albeit at times long-winded) answers. If I post from this profile, it's an invitation to get talked down to. But that isn't just the forums, that's the entire world in general; the forums are a microcosm, a tiny sliver of humanity magnified through the lens of the Internet. Aug 23 15 09:14 pm Link Herman Surkis wrote: Yes, when I take a pee break, in the middle of the night, I just HAVE to stop at the computer, and see what is going on in the MM forums. It is a lot of fun, but, often keeps me awake for longer than I should let it. Aug 23 15 09:57 pm Link J-PhotoArt wrote: This is often where the pissing match starts; I just can't seem to resist telling one of them that they are full of shit ! Aug 23 15 10:13 pm Link Maybe models just got tired of the negative stuff that some of forum posters had in the past towards them? Many of the models I know are happily busy interacting with their "fans" and photographers who do like them on Facebook. When you've got 20,000 people who "Like" you on Facebook, what reason do you have to come here to get your ego beaten down? I'm not saying that it is a good thing to only have "yes" people around you, quite the contrary! Models on Facebook do still get haters and abuse there too. I just notice they like to be admired by more than just other models or photographers. One has to consider what the benefits are to participation in a limited forum such as this, verse a World Wide forum that can include so many more people. Aug 23 15 10:55 pm Link Carle Photography wrote: I would agree there is some truth to that, but I have also talked to numerous established, intelligent, and helpful models who used to regularly post here and tried to help new models, but left for one of 2 reasons - Aug 23 15 11:22 pm Link IMAGINERIES wrote: Why indeed? Aug 24 15 01:39 am Link - Phil H - wrote: I call bull on this one. Aug 24 15 03:42 am Link SayCheeZ! wrote: Chased out? What are we, 10 years old and without a brain or ability to communicate. I call bull on this one too. Aug 24 15 03:45 am Link Rik Williams wrote: Third person thinking models are not here because we are babies. I disagree. Aug 24 15 03:48 am Link retired light reflector wrote: I think Mensa is silly for being so elitist, they only have a 120 minimum requirement or something like that. Aug 24 15 03:53 am Link retired light reflector wrote: Class? Occupation? Gender? What do you think accounts for the difference in response? Aug 24 15 04:16 am Link Figures Jen B wrote: And you make this sweeping comment based on? Aug 24 15 04:16 am Link Rik Williams wrote: ...and if your choices or your perception of them were to take grief for free or to monatize your interactions? Hell, I know I blow off people who bulldoze me with their strong opinions and also make money where I can, just seems sensible. Aug 24 15 04:25 am Link I didn't participate in the forums early on when I joined. I really can't explain why except I wanted to get a feel for the site first. I find that the younger, newer models do get run off when they ask the same questions that have been asked over and over. Escorts, pay, etc. The models I see that are most active tend to be older. Maybe we have experience in life or just have thicker skins. Aug 24 15 04:27 am Link I think models get turned off by the pedantry and boorishness that us photographers tend to display. Aug 24 15 04:33 am Link |
