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Why the Prequels are better than Force Awakens
I'm probably throwing a grenade when I say this but I think the new Star Wars movie was mediocre at best. I'd even say the Prequels were better than Force Awakens. Yes, you read that right. The much vilified Star Wars Prequels were better than the Force Awakens. For the purposes of this discussion, the original Star Wars trilogy will be left out because as the old saying goes, when a person wins a Nobel Prize in their 20's, there's no place to go BUT down. If you have not seen the movie, I recommend you stop here. There are likely mild spoilers. Issue #1, the casting. No, I'm not talking about the new trio Finn, Poe, & Rey. I like their promise. I'm talking about getting these big name actors & then regulate them to cameos. Take Lupita Nyong'o (you may remember her from her Oscar-winning performance "12 Years a Slave") for instance. Why go through the effort of getting a talented up & comer like her if all you're going to do is hide her behind a CGI character. The same could be said for Daniel Craig of 007 fame or Gwendoline Christie of Game of Thrones fame if all you're going to do is hide them behind a mask. Issue #2, major buried story points. I'm referring to the multi-planet destroying sun beam weapon thing. Why is its threat & efforts to destroy it not THE thing that drives the entire story? How it was introduced & then later used was akin to an "Oh, by the way-" moment. In sports reporting, this would be the equivalent of going through how 2 baseball teams played each other in Game 7 of the World Series but neglecting to mention until 7 paragraphs in that the winning pitcher didn't have any batter reach 1st base. Issue 3, new movie trying to look retro. Ok, I get Director Abrams wants an emphasis on using real-world environments over CGI but what exactly is the point if they don't enhance the story or the viewer's experience. Maybe it did for others but I really didn't think any of it added. For a world that mixes the new with the old, how come both sides are still using technology that's 25+ years old as their latest & greatest. This would be akin to the US still using the old P-38 Lightnings as 1st strikers during the Cuban Missile Crisis. & its not like that universe doesn't already have that fancy new technology, just take a look at the space fight scenes in the Battle of Endor in "Return of the Jedi". With the "stellar" results Abrams did with the rebooted Star Trek franchise, this shouldn't have surprised me. Issue #4, the new technology or lack thereof. I've always admire how Lucas has constantly tried to push the creative envelope in what technology would allow in movie-making & then go try to go beyond it and then figure out how it'd knit into whatever story he was trying to tell. I can't speak for anyone else but when I saw the Podrace scene in Ep 1 & the opening flight sequence in Ep 3, the camera work + the surround sound gave me a little bit of motion sickness. Maybe I have a weak stomach but I have NEVER experienced something like that before or since. This is also a reason why I'm a fan of James Cameron's work. He's constantly trying to push the medium with HOW he tells his stories. I saw little to no effort with any of that in "Force Awakens". Issue #5, "Force Awakens" is emotionally bankrupt. Other than in a few places. The lead up really wasn't worth the payoff. Seeing Han & Chewie again felt like it was thrown in there. Despite "where's Luke" being the entire thrust of the movie, his intro may just as well have been cut & used for the next movie. Finding out Poe was alive was thrown in there with little impact. Same goes for randomly killing off Han. Issue #6, timeless themes or lack thereof. Everyone bitches that Jar Jar is annoying & they'd be right. But that was ENTIRELY the point. Everyone discounts him, everyone insults him, everyone is simple-minded. But he's also the one of the most fearless characters in Ep 1 (remembering there's more to being brave than battlefield prowess). He's a guide to the Jedi. He's the first to initiate contact with other beings. First to explore the local surroundings & environs (which did get him a couple of close shaves). & he was quick to make friends with others. In a lot of ways the Droids in Ep 4 & the Ewoks in Ep 6 served the same purpose. I saw no real attempt at that in "the Force Awakens" unless you count Finn's defection (which I really don't). 7. Where "FA" was better than the Prequels. The dialogue was significantly better. However considering Lucas himself admitted on several occasions that his strength was always in the visuals & giving nods to classical Hollywood ("Dr Zhivago", "Ben Hur", countless WWII war movies, Flash Gordon, to name a few) - this is to be expected. I also think the Finn, Rey, Poe dynamic has a lot potential. Its to soon to tell. This is why I think "Force Awakens" is mediocre at best AND the Prequels are better. My detractors will point out that "FA" keeps breaking box office records but let's face it, did anyone doubt that the WASN'T going to make a shit-ton of profit especially with the franchise-loving theatre going Chinese demographic? I doubt it. I won't say that I regret the $12 I spent on my ticket but Disney isn't getting the money I would have spent seeing it to 2 & 3 times. Maybe Marvel movie universe has made me weary of franchising in general. By trying to maximize profits 100x & pushing it in our faces 24-7, it dilutes the overall product & fatigues the customer. Jan 04 16 05:55 am Link You make many valid points. FA was not a great movie, it had many plot holes. But don't say it lacked emotion. I cried more during FA than I care to admit. And, I felt joy and happiness during the movie, and at the end of the movie I wanted to see it again. At the end of each of the prequels I felt loathing and disappointment. Galactic trade and pod racing do not make epic films. There have only been 4 real Star Wars movies - A New Hope, Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, and, The Force Awakens. Jan 04 16 06:19 am Link Robb Mann wrote: Loathing & disappointment at the story? Or loathing & diappointment at the viewing experience? Jan 04 16 06:45 am Link Jan 04 16 06:47 am Link I outright reject the argument that Lucas is a classic storyteller or that his movies follow in the traditions of the great filmmakers of the 20th century. If anything, Lucas was a magpie, picking a scene up from here, or a look from over there. I think he used classic films as a crutch to get over his own inadaquices as a story teller. I had a friend who's understanding of cinema I would equate to Lucas. My friend knows nothing about classic movies, but he had just started to date a girl who loved Kurosawa films. Over a couple of beers I ran my friend through a crash course in a few Kurosawa films. It was enough knowledge to get him a few more dates before she finally, inevitably, dumped his ass. To me, this is exactly the same problem Lucas had. He stole enough ideas/material for a really good movie and two not bad ones, but when it came time for Phantom, his well was dry yet he had convinced himself he was among the worlds great storytellers. That's why we ended up with Jar Jar, 60 minutes of pod racing, and the galactic trade federation. Have you ever watched the deleted scenes from the prequels? Most of them are dialogue, scenes about character development and backstory. How dare we cut even 10 seconds of a giant battle between armies or flashing blasters or swinging sabers to show character development! Jan 04 16 07:09 am Link Farenell Photography wrote: I liked a lot of the prequels... but I did enjoy this "FA" a tad more, because it didn't give me the feel that I had to wipe off baby-puke off my sleeves. Jan 04 16 08:28 am Link I've seen plenty of arguments that TFA isn't the greatest movie ever made, but I haven't seen any argument that the prequels were remotely good. Jan 04 16 08:33 am Link Well thought out and argued. I loved it but I'll add Leia is the new Jar Jar. Jan 04 16 08:58 am Link Well, unfortunately, you're wrong. It can be argued that The Force Awakens is a decent remake of A New Hope, but your argument that it's worse than the prequels is just misguided. Unless you really LIKE 50% of your action adventure movies scenes of people sitting and talking, then by all means, great. But I prefer action in my action films. The CGI wasn't overdone or cartoony. The scriptwriters recognized that I'm not a child and wrote some of it for me. The character development was really accelerated, but made a little sense. The reintroduction of old characters (both living and mechanical) was welcomed, but not overly cheesy. I found Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones to be really boring, silly and at times totally stupid. Revenge of the Sith was ok, but still only better than the first two terrible prequels. There is a fan made re-edit of The Phantom Menace on YouTube that looks and plays much better where all the silly stuff is removed and several characters, most importantly Jar Jar, are dubbed with gibberish and subtitles provide much better dialog. My argument is that George Lucas is a megalomaniac who had a very detailed and specific vision of what he wanted to create in the prequels, to the films' detriment. While I applaud his drive to make exactly what he wanted, they weren't good films. Poor casting and even worse direction is to blame. But the scripts didn't exactly make it easy. The Force Awakens is a good film. I'm actually calling it the best of the 7 Star Wars films so far. Best casting, best dialog, best acting, best direction. Great action, very good effects (except for those beast things that Solo was transporting), and even some good humor. From best to worst: 7, 5, 4, 3, 6, 2, 1. But 2 and 1 are pretty much interchangeable as worst. But your opinion is your own. At least your arguments are well thought out and bring up interesting ideas. Jan 04 16 10:54 am Link I just turned on Phantom Menace. It's the first time I've seen it since the day it opened (I saw it twice that day). It's fucking terrible. Midi-chlorians?!? That's possibly worse than Jar-Jar, which is stressful to watch because the mediocre animation, racist voicing, and stupid, physics-defying slapstick is just so bad. Jan 04 16 11:57 am Link No grenades here for me. It's entertainment. Tastes will vary. No harm in that. I have not watched Episodes I, II, or III a second time, have not bought the videos, nor do I care to. I'm looking forward to seeing Force Awakens again on the big screen. Then I'll undoubtedly get it when it comes out. That's my case. Since there are spoilers in the thread, I guess I can't wreck it any more for those who haven't seen it. Yes, I'm a little weary of the use of the Death Star in some iteration (Episodes I, IV, VI, and now VII) being brought up as the same plot device. Yes, the surprise death scene was actually no great surprise to me because it followed the template (Darth, Obiwan) of the original - but doggone it, I still felt sad on this one. And yeah, the explanation of the physics of the weapon was an eyeroller. But I can MST3K the original one, too, and yet I wallowed in watching it despite the flaws. Same with this one. Loved the new lead character far more than I would've expected, looking forward to the pilot character being developed more - and yes, his reappearance was anticlimactic - and the developing friendship of the new pilots of the hunk of junk. And the ending - well, when Darth Vader is "born" in Episode III, I nodded, yeah, saw that coming. At the end of Force Awakens, I knew what was going to happen, and still it was a thrill. A movie thrill, but a thrill nonetheless. There were three major things I liked in the prequels: The young Obiwan, Darth Maul, and Yoda. Oh, sure, Sam Jackson and Boba Fett were cool too. The rest, I was waiting till the trio of movies had run out of steam. Jan 04 16 04:11 pm Link I'll disagree - I've been there since 1977 - I've seen all of them in the theater - I have never felt the slightest need to see 1-2-3 again - I'll watch 4-5-6 again when they may come on. I'll make the case that in years to come - movie binge nites will be episodes 4-5-6-7 Nobody would have the will to live - after seeing 1-2-3 in order. I'll also say that the grim failure of the prequels began on "Return" - when Ewoks master what is essentially a armored cavalry unit - armed mostly with sticks.... John Scalzi was right -you can kill stormtroopers with one shot - or, drop a rock on them - Or, hit them with a stick - their armor and helmets are effective against???? What again? They would be just as effective, naked and running around in flip-flops - when fighting cute ewoks. I in no way, found the Ewoks storyline believable or interesting and they were the last we heard from Lucas until the *shudder* prequels. The ending of "Return" was mostly satisfying - but marred by a contrived and hackneyed 3rd act. Seven was flawed - true enough - but, fun again. I can forgive a lot of flaws - as long as the sense of fun and high spirits remains.. Jan 04 16 05:46 pm Link Is the new Star Wars a movie for children, or does it have broader appeal than that? Jan 04 16 05:59 pm Link I can appreciate your views and thought out arguments, but for me it's not even close (and I even bought all of the prequels on DVD and watched them a handful of times). I enjoyed TFA so much more than the prequels. The overall experience of TFA definitely met my expectations of what I imagine Star Wars to be and hopefully will become with the next two films. Jan 04 16 06:12 pm Link Click Hamilton wrote: In my circles, it's being enjoyed by three generations. Jan 04 16 07:26 pm Link I, for one, REALLY liked Force Awakens. There were some issues I had with the film and there were certainly lots of retread elements, but I feel that the fans really needed this movie badly and I think it delivered magnificently. I'm seeing it for the 3rd time on Wednesday and I'm already looking forward to it. The prequels were, IMO, some of the worst films ever made. Phantom Menace had some cool elements to it and I really liked the light-saber fight with Darth Maul, but every single positive thing I can say about that movie was derailed by Jar Jar and midichlorians. Then there were the other two movies, complete with astoundingly bad acting, regressive character development, terrible green-screen effects, an inept droid army, and other Darth Whatevers who simply were thrown into the mix to fill content. Compound that with some of the worst script writing I've seen since Plan 9 From Outer space, the only good the prequels did was serve for what will hopefully be fodder for a Mystery Science Theater 3000 mini-series. As far as I'm concerned, the conversation about the prequels even having any inkling of quality ended when they had to resort to ripping off jokes from the movie Airplane. These guys really nailed it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeXDrvPB5rI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8ea7OiaLWo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln7HQCbonho https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Iw_CZtq4LI https://youtu.be/m0TGcvtzjUs https://youtu.be/hD7xZFLhTq8 Jan 04 16 07:50 pm Link Click Hamilton wrote: Well the legion of fans would prove that otherwise. Jan 04 16 07:52 pm Link Farenell Photography wrote: As a Star Wars fan, I agree with you that this espisode was mediocre. I think they need to move away from the "death star" plot and move on to something else. Jan 04 16 08:00 pm Link do or do not. there is no try. with 1-3, lucas tried but he did not do. there are some things to like about those movies but overall there was just too much horribly/excruciatingly wrong with them (and i'm not talking about jar-jar who was pretty much my favorite part along with ewan mcgregor). i think that some of the worst scenes in movie history are in 1-3. clearly mr. lucas had some help (like his wife and some actors who could ad-lib) with 4-6 and that help wasn't available for 1-3. i'm looking forward to 8 and would pay to see 7 in the theaters again (even if it is a bit of a rehash). hopefully 8 and 9 will give us some new plot points. Jan 04 16 08:16 pm Link Happy Guy Photos wrote: In this Episode. We learn that Darth Vader's Grandson explains this fact. Jan 04 16 08:19 pm Link I can be highly critical of sci-fi and action movies but I enjoyed TFA, paid to see it in the theater and will probably watch it again at some point. I remember loving the original Star Wars movies when I was a little girl, and finding the prequels totally nauseating. As in, the prequels were so bad, I wasn't even going to go see this one until I realized it had some of the original cast members, and characters like Chewie and R2D2, etc etc. It wasn't a dumb-ass, plastic looking CGI explosion either. I felt like I was watching an actual movie, not a cartoon. That's a HUGE issue I have with a lot of sci-fi flicks. I cannot stand overdone CGI. That being said, no it wasn't some kind of masterpiece moment in cinema history. The original Star Wars movies weren't either. It was decent entertainment that stayed true to the Star Wars legacy (unlike the shitty prequel films) and, imo, that made it worth enjoying. Jan 05 16 05:40 am Link Click Hamilton wrote: I enjoyed it, and I'm not someone who'll generally watch Disney or Pixar films, or any of that stuff. If something looks campy or particularly childish, I'll just get up and leave the theater. I watched the whole movie and liked it. Jan 05 16 05:46 am Link Click Hamilton wrote: The movie has broad appeal. Everyone but a few people on MM love it. Jan 05 16 06:33 am Link Jerry Nemeth wrote: No, there are a bunch of people on my personal/friend Facebook who really hated it. They are all from Asheville, NC, where I grew up though. People down there tend to be skeptical about mainstream music and movies. A lot of my friends who still live there haven't watched TV, followed news, or listened to the radio since like 1994. Jan 05 16 06:38 am Link Koryn wrote: I know people who have seen it 3 times. The fact that it is a top moneymaker tells you something! Jan 05 16 06:45 am Link I remember when Good Morning America had their Live Cameras at a Early Morning Showing of Star Wars The Phantom Menace. As the Star Fans descended out of the Movie Theater, and Charles Gibson on Live TV...ask the fans what did they think of the new Star Wars Film, one girl shouted out. "I Hated It" The look on Gibson face. lol Jan 05 16 07:24 am Link Jerry Nemeth wrote: Not denying what you're saying but I'd be curious to see how much FA & where it stacks up against other blockbusters in relation to the ticket prices. Jan 05 16 09:16 am Link Farenell Photography wrote: When adjusting to 2015 ticket prices it is currently at 21st of all time. By the end of its run it should almost certainly crack the top 15 and maybe even top 10 if it can have a long run. Jan 05 16 10:20 am Link I first saw it on the Friday evening of opening weekend in a small theatre in Atlanta. No lineup and the ticket only cost me $8, if I remember correctly. Maybe $9. Jan 05 16 10:23 am Link Peter Claver wrote: It is about to Over Take Crapatar Today ...This is yesterday's numbers... Jan 05 16 11:10 am Link DOUGLASFOTOS wrote: You sound very childish when you talk like this.. it's very hard to take you seriously. http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/domestic.htm No Adjustment Needed!!! lol You are confusing Folks with Adjusted Numbers. lol The adjusted numbers are a useful measure of raw viewership. And my post was in response to someone opining about how ticket prices skew the revenues over the years. Jan 05 16 11:30 am Link Brian Diaz wrote: The universe ended up going into a lot more detail during the "Mortis" arch in Season 3(?) of "the Clone Wars" animated series as well as the unaired but later released on DVD Yoda arch for the cut short Season 6. Which amounts to over 2 hours of air-time. Jan 05 16 02:04 pm Link the more time that goes by....I have gone from thinking it a mediocre movie to thinking it is about as bad as any of the prequels. JJ literally just remade a new hope. SPOILER...........I also wished that Rey found han solo and chewie back in the catina bar....imagine that...rey looking for a pilot to take her off a planet and going into the cantina bar see Han and Chewie sitting in their usual booth seat....also it would have made more sense that Han flew the millennium falcon than rey in that tie fighter chase scene. Jan 05 16 03:41 pm Link Good Egg Productions wrote: THIS Jan 05 16 03:44 pm Link Jerry Nemeth wrote: It tells me something, but not the same thing it tells you I suspect Jan 05 16 03:55 pm Link blah, blah, blah... Jan 05 16 07:56 pm Link Peter Claver wrote: Crapatar..It was a massive ripoff of Furngully and Dances with Wolves and Pocahontas. You may ignore me..no skin off me. Oh by the way..the same maker of Crapatar...made Craptanic. Jan 05 16 08:01 pm Link DOUGLASFOTOS wrote: C'mon, you're dissing "Crapatar" because it rips off Furngully, Dances with Wolves, & Pocahontas? Got a news-flash for you, all of those are replaying timeless motifs of the "civilized man going native." Jan 05 16 09:31 pm Link Farenell Photography wrote: U All..think that Crapatar just came out. IT has been heavily criticized for years...with the same analogy I just commented on. I am not the first or last to make fun of James Cameron's Crapatar and Craptanic. Get over it Gurls! oh my lanta. Jan 05 16 09:36 pm Link Vintagevista wrote: I think that was ENTIRELY the point & was believable (if not "believable" then certainly "plausible") where you said it wasn't. Its a thematic play on the age-old theme of "primitive" natives overthrowing their imperial overseers. Jan 06 16 06:14 am Link |
