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Bondage Legalities question
does anyone working in bondage have any experience or knowledge with forms such as a "bondage consent form" or "hold harmless" form? something the model would sign in addition to a model release form prior to shooting? thanks. Jun 10 06 11:53 am Link please also feel free to email me if you can be of help. Jun 10 06 02:57 pm Link While I would like to bend over backwards to help out, I'm afraid my hands are tied! Jun 10 06 03:00 pm Link As a model who does occasionally do artistic bondage, and who has really loved your work since i was first introduced to it, I have a few questions. 1. Who does the rigging, you or someone else? 2. How much experience does the rigger have 3. By hold harmless do you mean from rope burn or other minor things? 4. Have you ever hurt a model in a way that requires medical treatment? 5. Do you ask the model if she is feeling okay several times while she is in bondage? 6. Are your primary reasons for doing bondage artistic, or personal? I see in some of the photos there is someone rigging the model....is that you or someone else? 7. What do you consider professional in terms of rigging the model? Do you touch her only to do the rigging, or do you also engage in 'play' or sensual touching while she is tied up? Jun 10 06 03:05 pm Link Lapis wrote: you can do that? i'm shooting the wrong kind of pictures Jun 10 06 03:42 pm Link Lapis wrote: You never asked me any of these questions...i'm a little jealous. Aren't I scary enough? Jun 10 06 03:48 pm Link hello lapis. so many questions, where do i begin? i do my own rigging. mostly because i consider it to be a part of the creative process and i want to control that. much like lighting. also, i just can't afford a rigger as this is a self-financed project. while i am an amateur with rope i do keep it simple and am happy to say i've never harmed anyone. and though i pay close attention to how the model feels, once i thought a girl was going to faint. scared me much more than her. that is also me in the photos. this is tricky but i've worked it out. a professional bondage model that has contacted me has a boyfriend that is a pro rigger. i think eventually i'll shoot with them as it can bring the bondage aspect of my work to another level. there are several motives for me doing bondage including both artistic and personal. while that is me in the photos i Never do anything the model isn't comfortable with however there is one model that would let me do Anything!i do like the images to have a realism and hate when a model just poses. hope i've answered some questions at least? now what about my original question, any experience with these legal issues!? Jun 10 06 04:27 pm Link Christopher Bush wrote: your chopsticks photo is a start?! Jun 10 06 04:29 pm Link I wish I could come up with legalities, but after hearing your answers, I would not be afraid to work with you. The only thing I do not like is when someone is attempting to turn a photographic/artistic experience into a 'feel up the model' experience. It does not sound like you do that. If you have never hurt a model before, and you know what you are doing, that is what I am interested in. I would sign a waiver, but only if I knew that the waiver was being signed because of legal reasons, and not because the rigger had no experience or had been sued before. Jun 10 06 06:13 pm Link max black wrote: not my hand. i have done a few photos that included my arm, and i guess they were kinda fetishy. Jun 10 06 06:20 pm Link I have done some light artistic bondage, like shibari, but I never signed any forms other than the release? I also had an escort so inappropriate touching was not a problem. Also someone had been hired to do the rigging because it was so intricate. I would say maybe just have 2 types of releases, one including the details of bondage and one without instead of having seperate forms? But as Lapis said, it really depends on a lot of different things. I think if you are working with experienced bondage models they know what to expect anyway. Jun 10 06 06:23 pm Link mmmmm bondage Jun 10 06 06:25 pm Link max black wrote: What I've seen is just the standard release. I would think that consensual bondage is no more or less risky than plain old nudity in terms of your liability anyway. If you're really concerned with liability for bondage, you might want to have a lawyer create a hold harmless agreement for you and/or create a pre-shoot contract which outlines the details of the shoot itself. Jun 10 06 07:08 pm Link Mr Anthony wrote: Title 18 section 2257 is in place to stop child porn or abuse -- and they have stringent eyes on the adult industry. You must have a copy of a driver's license to prove that your models are over 18. I do that by taking a picture at the time of signing the model release. Just hope they don't have a forged ID. Jun 10 06 08:29 pm Link Uhmm.... aaaaah.... make sure they can still breathe.. Yep!  JP Jun 10 06 08:42 pm Link Very nicely put. 100% spot on. Mr. Anthony Picture Perfect Makeup wrote: Jun 10 06 08:56 pm Link Picture Perfect Makeup wrote: I've never heard of a "hold harmless" release in the bondage/fetish industry before. I doubt they would hold up in court anyway because if you harm someone, even unintentionally, you are responsible. Period. I always check the models in my shoots when they're tied up, and I am always asking if they are ok (some models have said I "mother hen" too much... better too much than too little.) Jun 10 06 10:45 pm Link thank you everyone for your responses. i've gotten some very helpful emails too. my concerns are not about harming a model. rather, they are just regarding complying with the law, such as this 18 u.s.c. 2257. though its intention is to prevent child porn its also put established bondage sites out of business (such as insex). my other concern is having a model turn on me; not because i do something wrong but because there are people out there which state false claims to take advantage of someone. the most helpful advice i've gotten is to include in the release the exact nature of the shoot, in greater detail. i was looking for some sort of consent form other than a release. i didn't think the "hold harmless" thing through. i certainly don't do anything i'm not confident with nor am i looking to escape responsibility. i'm just not too good with leagalise! Jun 10 06 10:58 pm Link This may not be very helpful either but I remember reading at one time a line in a model release form that was used specifically for bondage models. It states something along the lines that the model knowingly and willingly agreed to pose for photographs that involved bondage and any expressions of fear or discomfort were mutually planned in advance and simulated. This rightfully won't protect a photographer if the model is injured during the shoot but it could add a level of protection from third parties trying to imply the model was averse to the photos and going after the photographer. But I'm no lawyer so feel free to ignore me. My point is to keep up the search because what you are looking for exists, I just don't remember where. sorry :-( Jun 11 06 12:59 am Link I hope I'm not breaking any rules by posting this but there's a lot of decent info here, you will probably get a good idea of what's involved. http://www.bedroombondage.com/bondageu/photovideo/ Chris ::rev Jun 11 06 01:10 am Link Would this be a binding contract? Jun 11 06 02:02 am Link Getting a good education is the best way not to get in danger, and event the best riggers in the world, have things happens. Hold harmless contracts do not hold up in court usually for things like this. Ignorance or lack of real education/skill is NOT an excus to be held harmess, and would even back fire on you if they brought in an expert on the subject. It REALLY hard to actually hurt or kill someone with bondage when common sense is used! But it really easy to cause nerve compress/damage which is the most common problem, and most likely problem you going to get. And literally can happen in a millisecond or presure being in the wrong place or if rope shifts. It happen to the best of use. Check out www.bdsm-chicago.com/cram see if that helps you. The best place for hands on education is www.ShibariCon.com but that just happened. If you have any questions, your welcome to email me. MorTis. Jun 16 06 05:25 am Link a few years ago there was a lawsuit filed by jewel marceau against slave labor productions for injuries sustained during a bondage shoot. a lot of people that work in bondage and fetish know both of them very well, and the outcome of the case was very interesting news to models and especially to producers for some time if i recall. ----------- Photo Shoot Calls for Bondage ... and Binding Arbitration How much leather will $35,000 buy? Mike McKee The Recorder March 10, 2003 Talk about damages for pain and suffering. In an arbitration case that even the judge noted had "very unique" facts, Jennifer Jo Smith -- alias Jewel Marceau -- sued Paige White, a legendary performer and director in the bondage community, for injuries incurred during a very explicit San Francisco photo shoot for Slave Labor Productions. It seems that Smith, considered a star in her field, hurt her left arm, wrist and hand while bound, gagged and hanging from ropes several feet off the ground. Or as the arbitrator put it in a ruling released Thursday: "Claimant (unable to express any discomfort with a gag in her mouth) was left hanging as ropes were unevenly loosened and she was not provided effective bracing." The arbitrator, former San Francisco Superior Court Judge Raymond Williamson Jr., found that Smith was not an "employee" for purposes of worker's compensation as she had argued. But he did rule she had been injured because of negligence and awarded her $35,544. In addition, he ordered White to pay more than $8,700 for the American Arbitration Association's arbitrator and administrative fees. Walter Walker III, a partner at San Francisco's Walker & Hamilton who represented Smith, said the case should have settled for a pittance, considering the injuries were rather minor. But he said he "had a real tiger by the tail" in White, who refused to settle for fear of ruining her image in the bondage world. So Walker used the terms of Smith's contract to force the case into arbitration. "Given the fact that we had a bondage case," he said, "it was interesting that it was binding arbitration." Smith, from Virginia, had contacted White, and the two arranged the photo shoot at White's home/studio. Smith -- star of videos such as "Asses in the Air 1," "Leather Bound Dykes From Hell 15" and "Sorority House Slaves" -- was paid an hourly rate. The injury occurred during a pose that Smith hadn't tried before. --- the rest of the story is at the site and it is worksafe (www.law.com) http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1046833528962 Jun 16 06 05:53 am Link max black wrote: I dont do bndage but I have this in my releases. Its not designed to limit liability just to make sure that no one comes back and says they were forced into anything. Jun 16 06 06:27 am Link Cspine wrote: zing. Jun 16 06 06:52 am Link Christopher Bush wrote: Am I wrong for having a sudden desire to have sex with a woman in bondage ? Jun 16 06 06:52 am Link Tony Culture Photoz wrote: I find that it helps if ,while holding the camera, you think with the big head rather than the little one. Jun 16 06 07:27 am Link Tony Culture Photoz wrote: Not at all, that how i prefer it all the time! Jun 16 06 07:27 am Link I'm not sure if this is an active thread, but I thought I'd respond with my two cents anyway. I have a release that I require all the models to sign. There is a hold harmless article in it.. " hereby fully release, discharge and agree to hold harmless the Company and any related entities, agents, legal representatives, heirs and assigns, and all persons or corporations acting with its permission, from any liability by virtue of any sickness, illness, injury or damage I may incur, or may have incurred, during the production of these images or video recordings. " This does not guarantee that I will not be sued by the model should something happen; but it is pretty much the best you can have to protect yourself; outside of insurance. The clause is used in all my shoots, bondage or vanilla, as there is always a risk of injury on a set, regardless of if ropes are used. I've seen more lights fall over due to poorly taped wires than anything else. And they hurt!:-) Other elements in the release include I fully understand that I will be participating in adult activities of sexually explicit nature, specifically bondage and submission. I fully understand that I may and will be photographed in various stages of undress, that I may and will be photo and video-graphed partially or fully nude. I fully understand that I may and will have physical contact with the opposite sex. I fully understand that I will be bound with rope or other securing devices, including the use of conventional BDSM & sex toys, including, but not limited to gags, ropes, canes, and hoods, vibrators, clamps. Of course, the release can be toned up or down, and the model can always strike through things they don't agree with. The physical contact sentence is there as I'm going to tie the person up. As for playing, or simulation; the release covers it; but it really is something to be discussed with the model before hand, not during the shoot. As for the case mentioned above; Though I'm sorry she got hurt, I I find it surprising that the model did not have a non verbal safeword. That is pretty basic stuff when gagging a model. Finally; communication. Unless the shoot involves video, there must always be an ongoing dialog with the model to ensure she is OK. Numbness, tingling, all that can lead to nerve damage, and I'm sure everyone wants to avoid hurting someone who is helping them build art. Thanks for the opportunity to voice out. M Aug 24 14 08:54 pm Link TwinPhoto wrote: It's eight years old. Aug 24 14 09:01 pm Link Alabaster Crowley wrote: how the hell do new people even FIND these dead threads to resurrect? Aug 24 14 09:02 pm Link LOL; It only has the date; June//July..Wow..Where is the delete key! PS..Member since dec 2008 Aug 24 14 10:06 pm Link Alabaster Crowley wrote: Good Egg Productions wrote: Hey...it's Catch 22 Aug 24 14 11:49 pm Link Picture Perfect Makeup wrote: Being able to prove the model was over 18 does not mean you are in compliance with Title 18 section 2257. Aug 25 14 06:31 am Link TwinPhoto wrote: It's active now. Aug 25 14 06:58 am Link There is no way to word a consent form which will hold you harmless during a bondage shoot. It's always a risk. Always work with someone you trust. As stated before, if you have never spoken to a lawyer about 2257, just walk away. Aug 25 14 11:55 am Link I've shot dozens if not hundreds of models in bondage, and I just use a standard model release. I tend towards the artistic side of nudity, though, rather than the deadpan girls in distress type stuff. Aug 25 14 04:05 pm Link Actually, this is a topic that should be discussed with your insurance agent. Believe it or not, they know about this stuff. You may think that your Standard Liability Insurance Policy will cover accidents that happen during bondage shoots, but your insurance company will probably try to use that as an excuse to deny your claim. I was sued for an accident that happened during a bondage shoot that an assistant of mine (at the time) was doing. My insurance company paid the model $130,000.oo for an injured arm. Had I not had the extra insurance, I would have lost my studio, business and probably my home for a shoot that wasn't even mine. Fortunately my policy had been modified years earlier to cover 'theatrical performances with special effects' as well as coverage for 'rigging and staging', and after paying off the model, State Farm only raised my rates by $25.oo per year. Figure that something can/will go wrong eventually . . . are you really prepared to have your life devastated, or will you have proper insurance and go on about your business? KM Aug 25 14 04:26 pm Link There's one legality that I have not seen mentioned and that is what constitutes kidnapping. I know it is far fetched in a photography situation but simply not allowing someone to leave a room by the use of any force or constraint can be considered kidnapping it does not require moving the subject from one place to another. So the use of safe words/looks... that instantly stop what is going on and begins the uniting of the model is necessary. Aug 25 14 04:33 pm Link  Moderator Note!I know this is a zombie thread, and I too wonder why it has been awoken, but there is no reason to not let it continue. People are making timely remarks to the later posts and the information is still useful. Aug 25 14 04:38 pm Link |
