Carmilla Jo wrote:
Worst idea I've gotten (very graphic):

Portraying Snow White lying on the ground with her violated vagina exposed, with seven mini used and dirty condoms lying around her.

I have to agree with Art, tacky but funny. If done right that could be fairly genius.

I would be afraid, as the model, of it being done wrong.

CamiAnn wrote:
"Worst idea I've gotten (very graphic):

Portraying Snow White lying on the ground with her violated vagina exposed, with seven mini used and dirty condoms lying around her."


That is pretty bad...he really said her "violated vagina exposed"? Who does that? ...and where do you get "mini" condoms anyway?

"Who does that?"

Some idiot who wants to destroy innocence, I suppose.

"..and where do you get "mini condoms anyway?"
..........Don't want to know.......

Laura UnBound wrote:
Ive gotten the typical array of horrible gigs.

If you can find it in the childs costume section of the dollar store, Ive worn it. most of it for no apparent reason. Just "we're in the middle of the woods, here put this neon orange feather boa and some mardigras beads and these shutter shades on, look glamourous over on that rock, this makes SO MUCH sense"

Angel wings
Fairy wings
Posing with stuffed animals
Fake flowers, with and without a glass of wine I didn't drink
Lots and lots and lots of fabric
Holding old cameras
A handful of horrid girl-girl shoots, usually with girls 10 years older, a foot and a half taller, and twice as big as I am (in other words, it looked like a mother and her small child naked together)
All the typically awful poses
Caution tape
Swords
Guns

Playing devil's advocate here for a minute. And I don't suggest that you do anything you aren't comfortable doing but have a little patience.
For the jaded, experienced models I can see how the wings, stuffed animals, old cameras, caution tape, swords, guns etc. could be old hat, been there done that, but for some newer photographers who are still learning and seeking their artistic style, those "standards" are being explored for there own merit. The caution tape for example, the otherwise nude model with the seductive air and come hither look, being graphicly marked as a hazard; this is an Idea that needs [too strong a word], should be explored by any artist looking to work towards the erotic.
We see many forms and styles copied and perpetuated, I mean, for illustration, the whole look right, smile and glance left has been done before. http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/vi … oconde.jpg it is still part of the study and learn process.

Art of the nude wrote:
When I was very new; I shot a pregnant model, in a bikini and tennis shoes, with a sword, in a river. 

Sigh.

It was ALL her idea.

(Different thread, but, that's also over done.  Even if I'm the only one ever.  Once is too much.)

Holy cow that made me laugh.

Carmilla Jo wrote:
Actually, I was paraphrasing in my previous post. This was what he said verbatim:

"My idea around Snow White is to basically have an implied rape scene where Snow White is laying down, legs spread, dress hiked up, vah-jay-jay showing, with the expression of being exhausted and looking like she's just been fucked by 7 little dwarfs.  But they are nowhere to be seen, except for the remnants of 7 little mini condoms around the area."

That could be a great ad campaign for a mini-condom maker.  I actually like this idea (with or without the vag) but I would prefer a consensual essence and not rape.  I'm old fashioned like that.

CamiAnn wrote:
"Worst idea I've gotten (very graphic):

Portraying Snow White lying on the ground with her violated vagina exposed, with seven mini used and dirty condoms lying around her."


That is pretty bad...he really said her "violated vagina exposed"? Who does that? ...and where do you get "mini" condoms anyway?

They are called finger cots and available at stationary and medical supply stores.

All Yours Photography wrote:
This is not my photo.

From the profile of Tattoo23 (model), Mayhem #719429

Why would you offer up someone else's work as "worst idea ever"? Im pretty sure they call that unsolicited critiquing, and very poor taste on your part

Dagger133 wrote:

Playing devil's advocate here for a minute. And I don't suggest that you do anything you aren't comfortable doing but have a little patience.
For the jaded, experienced models I can see how the wings, stuffed animals, old cameras, caution tape, swords, guns etc. could be old hat, been there done that, but for some newer photographers who are still learning and seeking their artistic style, those "standards" are being explored for there own merit. The caution tape for example, the otherwise nude model with the seductive air and come hither look, being graphicly marked as a hazard; this is an Idea that needs [too strong a word], should be explored by any artist looking to work towards the erotic.
We see many forms and styles copied and perpetuated, I mean, for illustration, the whole look right, smile and glance left has been done before. http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/vi … oconde.jpg it is still part of the study and learn process.

I dont believe that anyone NEEDS to be cliche and mediocre to grow at anything. Especially if they're already above that, why stoop lower?

Ive witnessed plenty of new photographers on the good-to-bad spectrum that are skipping right over everything on that list because they're able to recognize utter trash when they see it. I think thats far more valuable than doing it just to do it because someone said thats the place you start at.

Laura UnBound wrote:

I dont believe that anyone NEEDS to be cliche and mediocre to grow at anything. Especially if they're already above that, why stoop lower?

Ive witnessed plenty of new photographers on the good-to-bad spectrum that are skipping right over everything on that list because they're able to recognize utter trash when they see it. I think thats far more valuable than doing it just to do it because someone said thats the place you start at.

Time to change my avi.  Laura thinks its "Utter Trash"

Dekilah wrote:
Two ideas have been pitched at me that I absolutely would not consider, they both involved the same dress. This one:


...Concept two was more recently and the photographer wanted to do a trash the dress. Obviously I declined that...

A photographer wanted to trash that dress? Seriously? That's just fucking criminal. Jesus Tap-Dancing Christ...

Oddest idea I've gotten is that a model contacted me as part of a casting call and she said she wanted to do a shoot based on a music video. Sounded innocent enough, but then I watched the video she was talking about.

It was "E.T." by Katy Perry.

Now, eventually I figured out how I could have shot this, and that just makes this idea seem worse. To pull this off it would have required a complicated and flashy wardrobe, hours of makeup, a studio space with lighting, fans to blow around loose fabric, and a lot of Photoshop work to replace the background with space.

Time-For-Print, of course. Also of note is that at the time I didn't have a studio, so I would have had to rent space from someone else.

RME Digital Photography wrote:

Time to change my avi.  Laura thinks its "Utter Trash"

-Shrug- if cliche/tacky suits you and makes you happy then keep on keepin on, my opinion doesnt matter.

Laura UnBound wrote:

-Shrug- if cliche/tacky suits you and makes you happy then keep on keepin on, my opinion doesnt matter.

Laura,  I like a lot of your work.  But you have some stuff that's a little cliche;  lamp shade on your head, fake penis in your panties?  I'd never call Someone's work "utter trash" just because I've seen it before.  99 percent of the photos on MM have been done before and that doesn't make them trash.

RME Digital Photography wrote:
Laura,  I like a lot of your work.  But you have some stuff that's a little cliche;  lamp shade on your head, fake penis in your panties?  I'd never call Someone's work "utter trash" just because I've seen it before.  99 percent of the photos on MM have been done before and that doesn't make them trash.

Lets not kid ourselves into thinking that at least half my portfolio isn't about what gets me booked rather than what I think is good and pretty and artsy.

Besides that, I also never said that cliches can't be done well. Someone somewhere obviously took at least one good image of caution tape or it wouldnt have caught on so horridly strong. Personally Ive never seen it but Im positive its out there somewhere.

You're also taking the list of things I made and the following comments you quoted out of context. I obviously wouldnt list something that someone has shot with me that I felt was done really well, a really good photo of me isn't going to make my list of "worst idea ever". I listed things that have all gone horribly wrong, for me personally. Shitty pictures that were NOT enhanced by a tacky concept. I was responding to a person trying to argue that people HAVE to do tacky things because it somehow makes them better or teaches them something. I argued that a newbie photographer who doesnt take good photos, doesnt need to take BAD photos of a TACKY concept (IE: the combined utter trash) to learn anything. I didn't call all cliche images utter trash, I said THOSE BAD IMAGES OF CLICHE THINGS would be horrific and worthless.


If you feel that your cliche images are great, then they're great, keep doing what you think is great. I certainly wasn't attacking you personally since Ive never even seen your portfolio before that I can recall.

You'd never call a persons work trash? Awesome, you're a better person than I am and you can pat yourself on the back for that. I call it like I see it.

Jeffrey M Fletcher wrote:
Would it be too far off topic in this thread for someone with a bad idea or two to ask for advice on how to make them worse?

no it wouldn't be off topic and possibly some good ideas on how to make them worse...

Laura UnBound wrote:

Lets not kid ourselves into thinking that at least half my portfolio isn't about what gets me booked rather than what I think is good and pretty and artsy.

Besides that, I also never said that cliches can't be done well. Someone somewhere obviously took at least one good image of caution tape or it wouldnt have caught on so horridly strong. Personally Ive never seen it but Im positive its out there somewhere.

You're also taking the list of things I made and the following comments you quoted out of context. I obviously wouldnt list something that someone has shot with me that I felt was done really well, a really good photo of me isn't going to make my list of "worst idea ever". I listed things that have all gone horribly wrong, for me personally. Shitty pictures that were NOT enhanced by a tacky concept. I was responding to a person trying to argue that people HAVE to do tacky things because it somehow makes them better or teaches them something. I argued that a newbie photographer who doesnt take good photos, doesnt need to take BAD photos of a TACKY concept (IE: the combined utter trash) to learn anything. I didn't call all cliche images utter trash, I said THOSE BAD IMAGES OF CLICHE THINGS would be horrific and worthless.


If you feel that your cliche images are great, then they're great, keep doing what you think is great. I certainly wasn't attacking you personally since Ive never even seen your portfolio before that I can recall.

You'd never call a persons work trash? Awesome, you're a better person than I am and you can pat yourself on the back for that. I call it like I see it.

You can back pedal all you want.  You put cliche, tacky, and trashy in the same category and now I guess your saying otherwise.  As far as patting myself on the back;  I guess I'm just a little more humble about my own work as I'm learning.

All Yours Photography wrote:
This is not my photo.

From the profile of Tattoo23 (model), Mayhem #719429

Are you offering this up as an example of a bad idea?  It's a little on the gross side but I think that's the point.  It's technically well done and composed.  It certainly makes you look twice.  I think it's pretty creative.  I guess I'm trying to figure out why this is a bad idea?  Are you equating bad idea with gross or provocative?

Vanguard Imageworks wrote:

A photographer wanted to trash that dress? Seriously? That's just fucking criminal. Jesus Tap-Dancing Christ...

Oddest idea I've gotten is that a model contacted me as part of a casting call and she said she wanted to do a shoot based on a music video. Sounded innocent enough, but then I watched the video she was talking about.

It was "E.T." by Katy Perry.

Now, eventually I figured out how I could have shot this, and that just makes this idea seem worse. To pull this off it would have required a complicated and flashy wardrobe, hours of makeup, a studio space with lighting, fans to blow around loose fabric, and a lot of Photoshop work to replace the background with space.

Time-For-Print, of course. Also of note is that at the time I didn't have a studio, so I would have had to rent space from someone else.

On my shoot last Saturday one of the photographers showed me images of a shoot he did with that theme. They were absolutely stunning.

Eleanor R wrote:
On my shoot last Saturday one of the photographers showed me images of a shoot he did with that theme. They were absolutely stunning.

E.T. in a trashed dress? that would be something.

sdgillis wrote:

E.T. in a trashed dress? that would be something.

No, just the ET music video.
I found one photo on MM, though the full length he has on his comp are even better:

Dagger133 wrote:
Luara, even I said that "need" was too strong a word; I said the ideas should be explored, to learn and grow, not necessarily fill portfolio's or galleries. Even great ideas  are going to have poor applications and off results.

Why *should* a tacky idea be explored, regardless of if you put it in your portfolio or not? Especially knowing full well (if you spend ANY time on the internet) that the majority thinks its super lame? Just to find out that you can in fact produce something lame? Is that helpful?
If someone is trying to learn technical skills, they can do that just as well without throwing angel wings and caution tape and guitars the model doesnt actually know how to hold correctly into the image. They could test their technical skills on a bowl of fruit if thats all they've got. The cheesy props are not needed in a model shoot to learn how to shoot a model.

If they're trying to develop a personal style, how does jumping on the cliche bandwagon do that for them?

I haven't had to touch one single fake rose petal, not one roll of caution tape, not a single japanese sword to develop my technical skills or personal style as a photographer. Why? because they would have taught me nothing. The only way they would have helped me is if I were purposefully trying to be mediocre and just as "original edgy and cool" as everyone else thats got the same shot in their portfolio. I suppose we all have to aspire to something, maybe I put too much faith in people.

RME Digital Photography wrote:
You can back pedal all you want.  You put cliche, tacky, and trashy in the same category and now I guess your saying otherwise.  As far as patting myself on the back;  I guess I'm just a little more humble about my own work as I'm learning.

You taking what I said to somebody else personally and out of context doesnt mean I back-pedalled

Laura UnBound wrote:

Why *should* a tacky idea be explored, regardless of if you put it in your portfolio or not? Especially knowing full well (if you spend ANY time on the internet) that the majority thinks its super lame? Just to find out that you can in fact produce something lame? Is that helpful?
If someone is trying to learn technical skills, they can do that just as well without throwing angel wings and caution tape and guitars the model doesnt actually know how to hold correctly into the image. They could test their technical skills on a bowl of fruit if thats all they've got. The cheesy props are not needed in a model shoot to learn how to shoot a model.

If they're trying to develop a personal style, how does jumping on the cliche bandwagon do that for them?

I haven't had to touch one single fake rose petal, not one roll of caution tape, not a single japanese sword to develop my technical skills or personal style as a photographer. Why? because they would have taught me nothing. The only way they would have helped me is if I were purposefully trying to be mediocre and just as "original edgy and cool" as everyone else thats got the same shot in their portfolio. I suppose we all have to aspire to something, maybe I put too much faith in people.





You taking what I said to somebody else personally and out of context doesnt mean I back-pedalled

You make a post like that and then say I'm taking you out of context?  Your tone is condesending and conceded.  You're criticizing other people's artistic methods while considering your own superior.

Constanza wrote:
hm...this is fun to think about lol!

Shooting girl/girl scenes (tacky ones though) for free.
Some make out session thing on the beach with a muscily dude (not my thing)
A strap on.
Erotica-for free and the guy is clearly a gwc with no experience.

Strap on-yes, yes I did.

haha same here thought i never would do a shoot with a strap on but checkit out it ended up (and is still) in my port!!

Jeffrey M Fletcher wrote:
This was widely considered tacky and an offence against good taste and refined and educated sensibilities at the time it was created. It also had a bit of an off color joke angle. A rather cliched view of the artists lifestyle, I can't say why it was created.

I have not looked at your portfolio, so this is not a comment on your work, but...

"Some people found Manet tacky and some people find my work tacky therefore my work must be edgy and awesome like Manet's was" is not a very sound line of reasoning.

All Yours Photography wrote:
This is not my photo.

From the profile of Tattoo23 (model), Mayhem #719429

Ironically it was tattoo23 that talked me into the strap on shot hahahah

Rachel Jay wrote:
"I'll book you for 4 hours, but I'm going to need you to come up with all the ideas for the shoot... hair, makeup, wardrobe, posing, and lighting ideas.  I can only afford to pay you $20/hour."

My rates for modeling alone were $50/hour, and he knew it because I'd just quoted him them.  He hadn't even asked what I'd charge to art direct the entire shoot.

Little insulting, that one.

Attentionn future photographers: Doing my hair, bringing wardrobe, knowing poses, and knowing basic lighting is all included in what I bring to the table.
And I wouldn't be offended if I were you, I'd just nicely decline...i've had worse offers than that LOL

Kamarose wrote:
"Some people found Manet tacky and some people find my work tacky therefore my work must be edgy and awesome like Manet's was" is not a very sound line of reasoning.

Quality by association. 

Laurel Rae wrote:
Attentionn future photographers: Doing my hair, bringing wardrobe, knowing poses, and knowing basic lighting is all included in what I bring to the table.
And I wouldn't be offended if I were you, I'd just nicely decline...i've had worse offers than that LOL

It was the history with that particular photographer that made it so that I found that offer insulting. The vast majority of the shoots I did included wardrobe styling, hair/makeup ideas, and lighting ideas.  I didn't so much mind it, but yea... the history behind everything just rubbed me the wrong way with that one.

But it doesn't matter any more.  I'm done with all of it.

ETA: This wasn't just doing my hair, bringing wardrobe, knowing poses, and knowing basic lighting either.  I was asked to plan the entire shoot, from the styling to the lighting.  For $100.  My time was worth more than that. 

And I did decline politely.  Wasn't going to burn the bridge... but I did let him know that while I'd be happy to negotiate payment, such a low offer was not one I'd be willing to consider.

The photographer got a very large tattoo not too long after that, which no doubt cost him a pretty penny.  He tracked it's progress on Facebook.  It became clear where his priorities were, and while I understand people spending their money they way they want, telling "the most awesome and best model I've ever worked with" that they're only worth $20/hour... even when they do everything for a shoot short of pushing the button?    Thanks.

RME Digital Photography wrote:

You make a post like that and then say I'm taking you out of context?  Your tone is condesending and conceded.  You're criticizing other people's artistic methods while considering your own superior.

Go easy there RME, we are discussing the merit of tacky, cliché images with a very beautiful woman who chooses to represent herself to the world with an avatar based on a rip off of a "Happy Days" rerun tomboy look, pulling on her chewing gum.

Laurel Rae wrote:

Attentionn future photographers: Doing my hair, bringing wardrobe, knowing poses, and knowing basic lighting is all included in what I bring to the table.
And I wouldn't be offended if I were you, I'd just nicely decline...i've had worse offers than that LOL

Cool.. Good to know..