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Photographer
Zack Zoll
Posts: 2,381
Glens Falls, New York, US


The part that you can't seem to understand, and why it's legal everywhere, is that the models are being paid for the pictures - not the sex.  Say you and a model hit it off, and when you go to drop off her photos you ask her if she wants to grab a drink.  Do you really think that there's some law that you can't have consensual sex with her?  After all, you only had to opportunity to have sex with her because you paid her.  This guy just moves faster than you do.

There are only two possible reasons for why this is "a thing" for you.

1)  He's preying on innocent young girls that want a shot in the big leagues.  It's been happening since about fifteen minutes after Hollywood was formed.  It sucks, but it's going to happen.  You're not the first guy to try and solve this problem, and you sure as hell won't be the last.  Just hope that no one close to you is ever affected.

2)  This guy gets more ass than a toilet seat, and you're jealous as all get-out.  Or he's lying about it, you believe him, and you're still jealous.  In either case, grow the hell up.

Occam's Razor and all, I'm thinking it's the second one.  Stop looking for validation, and re-evaluate why you're taking photos of women in the first place.
Dec 14 12 06:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tiffany Katz
Posts: 239
Palm Coast, Florida, US


Just because something is "common" or technically "legal" doesn't make it right.  There is no law against cutting your own wrist, but does that mean everyone should "mind their own business"?
Dec 14 12 06:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
John Jebbia
Posts: 27,612
Phoenix, Arizona, US


G Anderson Photo wrote:
This is where there is a LACK of reading comprehension.  Where did I ever say I was shooting models nude TF.   Just for the record.  I have NEVER shot a model nude TF.  I ALWAYS pay them so I own the photos outright.   Can you all say that?

I stated CLEARLY in my post that I offered legit PAID shoots. Go back and re-read my posts.   In the case of at least 2 models, I shot the models FIRST, then spent a lot of time selling follow-up shoots only to have the model disappear because the photog in question "took her private".
So, based on the comments on here I am supposed to pay the model MORE than he did and offer to NOT sell the pics.   From a business standpoint, WHY on earth would I want to do that?

I will sit back now and watch all the speculative posts on how I am jealous, how i am doing this to get laid, how I am cheap, etc. etc.  It is entertaining!

I looked at your portfolio, and I can take an educated guess at the business you're involved in. It's probably the same one I'm involved in (or at least pretty close). The only difference is that I'm not plagued by the same problems you seem to be.

I don't care who shot who, who's fucking who, who paid what to who, who paid for what. What I care about is what I will pay. P E R I O D! Yes.. we (Phoenix) have our fair share of guys like the one you described in your OP. But at the end of the day it don't matter. There's 5 million other naive, pretty, young girls to choose from.

Dec 14 12 07:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tiffany Katz
Posts: 239
Palm Coast, Florida, US


I think it's funny how everyone is assuming jealousy.  Did you ever consider that he may be happily married and that he's not jealous at all?  I mean, people like that do still exist.  Talk about judging...grrr. 
I'm sorry... the post seems legitimate to me, but I am now ultimately annoyed by the responses.
Dec 14 12 07:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
jesse paulk
Posts: 3,712
Phoenix, Arizona, US


i came in , i saw the port, and turned right around and left. LOL
Dec 14 12 07:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
John Jebbia
Posts: 27,612
Phoenix, Arizona, US


Tiffany Katz wrote:
Just because something is "common" or technically "legal" doesn't make it right.  There is no law against cutting your own wrist, but does that mean everyone should "mind their own business"?

Yes.

Dec 14 12 07:08 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tiffany Katz
Posts: 239
Palm Coast, Florida, US


John Jebbia wrote:

Yes.

lol.  I would comment, but it would require a whole other forum...I possibly took this to a place I shouldn't have on MM.

Dec 14 12 07:13 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Nelia
Posts: 2,152
San Francisco, California, US


Tiffany Katz wrote:
Just because something is "common" or technically "legal" doesn't make it right.  There is no law against cutting your own wrist, but does that mean everyone should "mind their own business"?

Yes... It does!

Dec 14 12 07:27 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Cwen
Posts: 1,691
Washington, District of Columbia, US


-_- Sigh.
Dec 14 12 07:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Daeda1us
Posts: 1,067
Little Rock, Arkansas, US


John Jebbia wrote:

You're absolutely right. I just looked up the Wisconsin State Statute on prostitution and word for word it states:

"Prostitution is defined as a photographer paying a female model for sex on camera with no intention of ever publishing the content. This definition does not apply if the model is male."

God I hate busybodies!

So, I can have sex on camera with guys for money without it being prostitution?

Damn!

I knew my life would be simpler if I were gay!

*harumph*

Dec 14 12 07:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Hero Foto
Posts: 878
Phoenix, Arizona, US


dude, DO NOT READ the Phoenix Craigslist ads ... HOLY %$#@ ... $1000's offered for everything from glory hole to pedal pumpers, you name a fetish, there's prolly an ad here looking for those young naive models to "perform" for $$$$ ... does it really matter ???

on a more serious note:

Please head to your local college and take some psych courses; preferably those in Human Sexual Behavior ... they're real eye openers ... wink
Dec 14 12 08:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BTHPhoto
Posts: 6,771
Fairbanks, Alaska, US


Tiffany Katz wrote:
Just because something is "common" or technically "legal" doesn't make it right.  There is no law against cutting your own wrist, but does that mean everyone should "mind their own business"?

Not, but not because it's not "right."  In that case, people shouldn't mind their own business because suicide is harmful and preventable.

Prostitution, on the other hand, should be legal.  In and of itself, it's neither harmful nor unnatural.  Pimping should be illegal, but prostitution should not.

Dec 14 12 08:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jordan Bunniie
Posts: 1,643
Los Angeles, California, US


BTHPhoto wrote:

Not, but not because it's not "right."  In that case, people shouldn't mind their own business because suicide is harmful and preventable.

Prostitution, on the other hand, should be legal.  In and of itself, it's neither harmful nor unnatural.  Pimping should be illegal, but prostitution should not.

One of the few times ive wished MM Had a "like" button.

Dec 14 12 08:17 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jay Farrell
Posts: 13,045
Nashville, Tennessee, US


Regardless, it's none of your business. That's a deal between him and the model. You have no way of knowing what really happens, and it doesn't concern you.
Dec 14 12 08:25 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Tiffany Katz
Posts: 239
Palm Coast, Florida, US


BTHPhoto wrote:

Not, but not because it's not "right."  In that case, people shouldn't mind their own business because suicide is harmful and preventable.

Prostitution, on the other hand, should be legal.  In and of itself, it's neither harmful nor unnatural.  Pimping should be illegal, but prostitution should not.

oh, my bad. maybe i should have rephrased it then.  Yes, being a whore is perfectly legal.  Sorry to be a party pooper.

Dec 14 12 09:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,329
Salem, Oregon, US


if the models are being harmed in some way then maybe somebody should go to the police. but if the models are willing participants why get involved? the whole pay for sex thing has always seemed like a slippery slope to me. if i buy a girl dinner and a movie and afterwards we have consensual adult sex does that automatically make her an escort? live and let live as far as i'm concerned. like obama said about the two states that legalized marijuana, "we have bigger fish to fry"
Dec 14 12 11:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Nico Simon Princely
Posts: 1,742
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Who cares what someone else is doing are you the Church lady and how is is any business of yours?
Dec 14 12 11:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
DarkSlide
Posts: 2,184
Alexandria, Virginia, US


Is the OP speaking about himself?
Dec 14 12 11:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Keith Allen Phillips
Posts: 3,471
Sacramento, California, US


G Anderson Photo wrote:

It is my business because good models that I planned on using for paid LEGIT nude and adult modeling gigs are "taken off the market" because this photog convinces them to "keep things private with him"    There is not much I can do about it.  I am just venting out of frustration.  I try hard to make sure I do everything in a legal manner and try to be familiar with all the laws governing nude, adult and hardcore shoots.   What this photog is doing is unethical in my opinion and is probably illegal.   The models are definitely consenting to the sex so there is no issue there, but I don't think they realize they may be guilty of prostitution in the eyes of the law.

So you're just butthurt that they won't shoot with you(or sleep with you). Glad we got that cleared up smile

Dec 14 12 11:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rik Williams
Posts: 3,362
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia


G Anderson Photo wrote:
So, I know of a photographer here on MM that pays models a very high rate for what appears to be artistic nude photos.  A few of those photos are posted on his port for each model to "make it look good".  However I know from models that have worked with him, that there is full hardcore photos/videos produced that he agrees to "never publish".  This makes it hard to recruit models that he works with for legitimate nude and adult modeling gigs as he tells them that they "don't want to have that stuff published just keep it private".   These models are generally new models looking for paid work who have no other history of doing porn or doing escorting.   In my opinion this photog is turning paid nude models into his own personal prostitutes.  I appreciate opinions on this.

Ummmmmm... No!
But why is it such a big concern to you?
If he offers a price and they agree to perform legal acts, who are you to judge.
I'm certainly not in a position to evaluate private circumstances, then go around calling models prostitutes.

Dec 14 12 11:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jeffrey M Fletcher
Posts: 4,344
Asheville, North Carolina, US


I still can't figure out why I'm supposed to join with the op in being disapproving of a couple of young women who got deals from someone else that they preferred to the one he was offering. I guess they must have liked the other offer better. Surely the op wouldn't want the young women to be forced to work with him through lack of choices, would he?
Dec 15 12 04:12 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
shotbytim
Posts: 1,014
GREENWELL SPRINGS, Louisiana, US


G Anderson Photo wrote:

It is my business because good models that I planned on using for paid LEGIT nude and adult modeling gigs are "taken off the market" because this photog convinces them to "keep things private with him"    There is not much I can do about it.  I am just venting out of frustration.  I try hard to make sure I do everything in a legal manner and try to be familiar with all the laws governing nude, adult and hardcore shoots.   What this photog is doing is unethical in my opinion and is probably illegal.   The models are definitely consenting to the sex so there is no issue there, but I don't think they realize they may be guilty of prostitution in the eyes of the law.

Ok, he uses models as whores. Find some whores and see if you can use them as models.

Dec 15 12 04:26 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 2,746
London, England, United Kingdom


So is the photographer in question paying for pics or for sex? After 3 pages I'm still trying to find the "prostitution" link.
Dec 15 12 04:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 2,746
London, England, United Kingdom


Considering this is Model Mayhem, all sex is "proistitution" since most guys buy a woman a meal in barter for the chance of a bit of nookie later.

Otherwise known as DFS.
Dec 15 12 04:32 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Damianne
Posts: 15,973
Austin, Texas, US


Ok so now you're just upset that someone in your area is paying more than you are and not publishing the photos, so girls don't want to work with you anymore because you publish the photos.


Also these women are apparently prostitutes.


Well it sounds like you need to pay more, not have work that apparently girls would rather never see the light of day (I haven't looked at your portfolio, that's not a critique), and get over your issues.
Dec 15 12 04:40 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
mphunt
Posts: 895
Missouri City, Texas, US


The sex was TF*
Dec 15 12 05:21 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
bwhstudios
Posts: 73
Hingham, Massachusetts, US


Jhono Bashian wrote:
No means NO!!!

Unless your last name is Kennedy.

Dec 15 12 08:23 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Matty272
Posts: 218
Dunfermline, Scotland, United Kingdom


Tiffany Katz wrote:

oh, my bad. maybe i should have rephrased it then.  Yes, being a whore is perfectly legal.  Sorry to be a party pooper.

Up until reading this, I had no opinion either way as we only have the words of the OP to judge by and not a balanced story and I was sympathetic to your position.

Your sentence "being a whore is perfectly legal" just appears judgemental and has swayed me away from that sympathy. I make no judgement on someone for the job they do; in the current economic climate both here in the UK and there in the US (if news reports are to be believed), legal income is at least an income.........

Dec 15 12 12:52 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Andrew Thomas Evans
Posts: 24,078
Toulon, Provence-Alpes-Côte-d'Azur, France


G Anderson Photo wrote:
I know for a fact that he has sex with the models because he has told me so and at least two models that have worked with him have told me so.

You haven't had sex with a model before? It happens, and it's pretty common - at least to those of us who are hot.



Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

Dec 15 12 01:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Darren Brade
Posts: 2,746
London, England, United Kingdom


Tiffany Katz wrote:

oh, my bad. maybe i should have rephrased it then.  Yes, being a whore is perfectly legal.  Sorry to be a party pooper.

The irony is that two post prior you accused everybody else of being judgmental.

Dec 15 12 05:55 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BTHPhoto
Posts: 6,771
Fairbanks, Alaska, US


Darren Brade wrote:
The irony is that two post prior you accused everybody else of being judgmental.

smile

In addition to the fact that she misread my post that she was replying to.  I never said prostitution (a.k.a., "being a whore") is legal.  I just said it should be.

Dec 15 12 06:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
udor
Posts: 22,068
New York, New York, US


Tiffany Katz wrote:
Just because something is "common" or technically "legal" doesn't make it right.  There is no law against cutting your own wrist, but does that mean everyone should "mind their own business"?

Tiffany, the issue is... if it's not illegal, and if it's between two (or three or four...) consenting adults... it is none of his, yours, mine or our business!

When I am on the subway (NYC) and I see a girl that has modeling potential, I am re-evaluating myself several times to make sure that when I am approaching her, I don't have "ulterior" motives, e.g. using my profession as a fashion photographer to get contact and a date.

If there is any doubt in my mind, I will not give her my card... or... if I do, I will not call her for a date... but that is my very own personal hangup!

This should give some sort of clarification how I look at things... and I don't have sex with my models, unless we have a relationship... not that I wouldn't have a one-nighter, but it hasn't happened... yet..., but it's not what I am in this industry for.

HOWEVER, I have heard of myriads of stories where this happened... enough models told me about it... photographers too... and the deeper you delve into the fashion modeling industry (not even fine art), the more this seems to be common.. and guess what:

     I am not judging those who decide to have sex if they feel like it...

                                                          ...because:

                                            it is none of my business!

Dec 16 12 05:17 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
testingphotography
Posts: 185
Seattle, Washington, US


The OP's MM port is virtually all "over 18" work, looks like he's just upset that the rate for nude models in his area has been inflated by his competitor.
That's the free market system, prices rise when a consumer is willing to pay more for a commodity. If you are "bidding" for the same commodity you must match the higher prices or find another source for a similar commodity.
Simple...
Dec 16 12 06:05 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Carlos Occidental
Posts: 10,546
Glendora, California, US


Dec 16 12 06:18 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Chicchowmein
Posts: 14,377
Palm Beach, Florida, US


Andrew Thomas Evans wrote:

You haven't had sex with a model before? It happens, and it's pretty common - at least to those of us who are hot.



Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

oh yeah baby

nothing like blowing your own horn especially when no one else is blowing it for you tongue

Dec 16 12 06:41 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
NYC Erotica
Posts: 65
New York, New York, US


Darren Brade wrote:

The irony is that two post prior you accused everybody else of being judgmental.

smile

Dec 16 12 06:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 12,669
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Tiffany Katz wrote:
Just because something is "common" or technically "legal" doesn't make it right.  There is no law against cutting your own wrist, but does that mean everyone should "mind their own business"?

No cutting your own wrist is against the law actually.

Dec 16 12 07:02 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
pullins photography
Posts: 5,878
Troy, Michigan, US


UltimateAppeal wrote:
Well, unless you were there for the shoots, it sounds like he said she said. Why are you worried about what some one else does?

Does this photographer list he shoots porn on his profile? If so that is against MM rules, CAM him. Otherwise, it is his business and not yours. If the llamas have complaints, they can CAM him.

Just my thoughts....

There you go...if you weren't there, you should't care!

Dec 16 12 07:07 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
LaurensAntoine 4 FHM
Posts: 339
San Diego, California, US


Dekilah wrote:
If he is approaching the models on MM requesting that they shoot porn or other adult content, they should CAM him. MM does not allow adult or porn networking on the site.

Huh? The vast majority of the activity here is adult. Not porn but certainly adult.

Dec 16 12 08:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kent Art Photography
Posts: 2,739
Ashford, England, United Kingdom


LaurensAntoine 4 FHM wrote:

Huh? The vast majority of the activity here is adult. Not porn but certainly adult.

How do you define 'Adult?'

Are nudes always 'Adult?'

Dec 16 12 08:36 am  Link  Quote 
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