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Photographer
r4u
Posts: 88
Paris, Île-de-France, France


They say " every work must be paid"
I don't consider art as a work.
And a photograph (true one;) ) works too, no?
If there 's no commercial issue, don't pay models please!
Dec 30 12 07:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Yan Tan Tethera
Posts: 4,183
Biggleswade, England, United Kingdom


r4u wrote:
They say " every work must be paid"
I don't consider art as a work.
And a photograph (true one;) ) works too, no?
If there 's no commercial issue, don't pay models please!

Interesting. Why would it concern you what I or any other photographer on here does?

I'm currently paying models in order that I'm under no obligation to provide images.

It works for me.

Dec 30 12 08:04 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GER Photography
Posts: 7,881
Imperial, California, US


I would never pay a model, if I were happy shooting kittens and butterflies, but since I'm not, I pay models.
Dec 30 12 08:10 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Brian Scanlon
Posts: 790
Encino, California, US


That's because, for some models, it's about supplementing their income and not about the art.
Dec 30 12 08:11 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
FoxyStudios
Posts: 22
Palm Bay, Florida, US


I only pay models, Why ? because this is my product im making and as sure as I want full control of my camera I want full control of my project. Its not rocket science to learn that you get what you pay for.
Dec 30 12 08:13 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mcary
Posts: 1,803
Fredericksburg, Virginia, US


Yan Tan Tethera wrote:

Interesting. Why would it concern you what I or any other photographer on here does?

I'm currently paying models in order that I'm under no obligation to provide images.

It works for me.

+1

Why? because some times I want to shoot with a model who doesn't want to shoot trade with me.

Dec 30 12 08:16 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
r4u
Posts: 88
Paris, Île-de-France, France


Brian Scanlon wrote:
That's because, for some models, it's about supplementing their income and not about the art.

+1

Dec 30 12 08:17 am  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
MainePaintah
Posts: 1,763
Saco, Maine, US


I am an artist and I paint pastel paintings.

If I paint a still-life painting, I have to go out and buy flowers and fruit or fish to put in my still-life so I have something to paint.

If I go outside somewhere to paint a landscape painting, I have to go buy gas for my car and lunch somewhere and drive around until I find a nice landscape scene to paint.

If I want to paint beautiful models, I have to pay them to model for me and take poses that I want them to take, so I may paint figure paintings.

Models create a valuable service and deserve to be paid.

I have also bartered with models for years, so both ways work for me!
Dec 30 12 08:24 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RBM Photo
Posts: 557
Bellbrook, Ohio, US


Yan Tan Tethera wrote:
Interesting. Why would it concern you what I or any other photographer on here does?

I'm currently paying models in order that I'm under no obligation to provide images.

It works for me.

+1

FoxyStudios wrote:
I only pay models, Why ? because this is my product im making and as sure as I want full control of my camera I want full control of my project.

+2

FoxyStudios wrote:
Its not rocket science to learn that you get what you pay for.

+10,000

Dec 30 12 08:27 am  Link  Quote 
Model
a raw muse
Posts: 3,194
New York, New York, US


It may not be a commercial project at the time, but if a model release is signed and someone wants to exhibit and/or buy your work, then it does become commercial (or in some cases you don't even need a model release).

I prefer to be hired to model except with good friends or for use of images for my portfolio. Why? The photographer/artist is not obligated to provide me with images, and I'm able to focus on whatever the photographer/artist is envisioning.

I will never justify being hired to someone who doesn't understand the benefit of hiring a model. If you get what you need in terms of models from trade, then that works for you.

When I want to shoot or draw someone that isn't interested in TF, I set a budget for myself if it's worth it to work with them. Sometimes it really is worth it to hire the right person and get exactly what I need, vs. shooting 10 different people and not getting what I need in the end.
Dec 30 12 08:27 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Atelier H
Posts: 146
Boston, Massachusetts, US


FoxyStudios wrote:
Its not rocket science to learn that you get what you pay for.

+1

Dec 30 12 08:48 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sand Angel Photography
Posts: 569
Phoenix, Arizona, US


For the same reason one might say you should pay a photographer. It's about who needs the services performed the most. Do you need a certain look for something? Then I would imagine it is faster and easier to pay someone than wait for them to come to you. That works for both sides.
Dec 30 12 08:52 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mark in MTL
Posts: 1,046
Montreal, Quebec, Canada


Sometimes it's better to just pay and be done with it than deal with all the demands of and extra work of a TF agreement.
Dec 30 12 08:57 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 12,801
Atlanta, Georgia, US


Mark in MTL wrote:
Sometimes it's better to just pay and be done with it than deal with all the demands of and extra work of a TF agreement.

+1 one of the best reasons.  Even if you are a testing agency photographer with access to all sorts of models it's sometimes way simpler then dealing with the agency.

Dec 30 12 09:07 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SPRINGHEEL
Posts: 38,195
Gibraltar, Michigan, US


r4u wrote:
They say " every work must be paid"
I don't consider art as a work.
And a photograph (true one;) ) works too, no?
If there 's no commercial issue, don't pay models please!

Sure thing sport

Dec 30 12 09:07 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
tonyfromsyracuse
Posts: 374
Syracuse, New York, US


WE.....need models more than they need us. so we have to offer an incentive otherwise it will be back to the days of bananas in a bowl.

the days of rock star photographers is coming to a close what with affordable cameras and intuitive software programs that can put hundreds of template sheens and concepts on pictures. I know thats difficult to swallow, but you've all seen the ports on MM.

yes many photos look amazing....but essencially you are seeing clones of the same poses and concepts....only the names and models are changed.
why pay? cause the models themselves here are finally starting to understand, they dont "need" us to take nude pictures of them.

they are starting to understand they are so beautiful...WE need them, which is why so many now, are moving towards... pay me.
Dec 30 12 09:09 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Drew Smith Photography
Posts: 5,209
Nottingham, England, United Kingdom


If I can't get something for Free I'll try bartering for it. If I can't get it for free or for trade then I'll pay for it.
Dec 30 12 09:11 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jay Farrell
Posts: 13,108
Nashville, Tennessee, US


Oui.
Dec 30 12 09:14 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Amadea T
Posts: 3,526
Columbus, Ohio, US


r4u wrote:
They say " every work must be paid"
I don't consider art as a work.
And a photograph (true one;) ) works too, no?
If there 's no commercial issue, don't pay models please!

I don't even know what to say to that...

Dec 30 12 09:19 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Sekkides
Posts: 70
London, England, United Kingdom


If you consider yourself an artist then art is your work. A model who poses is providing their time and experience, and like anyone involved in a shoot, should be compensated either with images for their folio or with cold hard cash.

If the model is the client that's another story.
Dec 30 12 09:21 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Koryn
Posts: 36,623
Boston, Massachusetts, US


As a model, after a certain point, the vast majority of the people contacting you for shoots have nothing to offer you in the way of images anymore. There will always be a few exceptions, but by and large, you just stop being able to benefit from shooting with the bulk of those who want to shoot you.

If, at that point, the model is unable to start receiving financial compensation for her work, there is no longer a motivation to continue modeling, or producing anything at all. As a result, models who have developed a large skill-set, strong portfolio and excellent work ethic will quit at the point when they COULD have been producing their best work --- and helping you to produce your best work.

Think about it just a little bit, OP. If you worked in a restaurant, as an experienced gourmet cook, but every assistant available to work with you in your kitchen was an endless cycle of teenage bus-boys from McDonald's who, soon as they started to become proficient at their work just up and quit -- would you REALLY do your best work at that job? Would there be anyone to push you to grow and mature in your profession?
Dec 30 12 09:22 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
SPS4 Photography
Posts: 16
Belmont, North Carolina, US


If it's my idea and I get the benefits (pictures, full release) I would pay a model.

Reverse the situation where she is getting the pictures and release, she'd better be paying me.

Everything else in the middle is alphabet soup (TFP,TFCD, ABCDEFG wink , etc. )

When I started out in this modeling stuff, I tried like heck to get models to show up for PG shoots.  I put out an ad online for a nude shoot with pay as long as I had a full release signed.  I got so many more replies to that ad.  It was the best experience I had up to that point, as previous PG shoots had been more uptight on the part of the model.  I was starting out then, and was not as good at establishing rapport between myself and the model.  Model photography is fun for now, I treat all this as a self-supporting hobby.  I make more money from weddings and such than from anything related to modeling.  But, if I came up with some idea that required some investment on my part, I would not rule it out entirely (paying a model for her time).
Dec 30 12 09:24 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 21,536
Portland, Oregon, US


r4u wrote:
They say " every work must be paid"
I don't consider art as a work.
And a photograph (true one;) ) works too, no?
If there 's no commercial issue, don't pay models please!

I'll try to be kind & direct with a OP with few forum posts.

Payment to models is related to the local supply & demand of suitable models.  If you can find suitable models without paying them, good for you.  If you can't, either don't photograph models or consider paying them.

You may not consider art as work, but from the model's perspective, if she's sitting there helping you achieve your artistic vision, she's not the artist.  You are granted the image's copyright, not the model.  For her, she might not be getting the same benefits from the collaboration as you are.

Sure, it's work for the photographer, too.  But if the photographer can't get suitable models to pose for him for free, what is he going to do?

It doesn't matter whether the resulting photograph results in commercial use.  What matters is whether you can entice a model to pose for you, and what do you need to do to convince the model to spend time posing for you.

Never, never, never tell us what we should do -- take care of yourself & your business.  I like paying models.

Dec 30 12 09:27 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Urbiefoto
Posts: 92
Arlington, Virginia, US


RBM Photo wrote:

Yan Tan Tethera wrote:
Interesting. Why would it concern you what I or any other photographer on here does?

I'm currently paying models in order that I'm under no obligation to provide images.

It works for me.

+1

FoxyStudios wrote:
I only pay models, Why ? because this is my product im making and as sure as I want full control of my camera I want full control of my project.

+2


+10,000

+100,000

Dec 30 12 09:29 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
BTHPhoto
Posts: 6,800
Fairbanks, Alaska, US


Do what ever it takes to get the model you want to willingly do the shoot you want, and it's no business of anyone else.
Dec 30 12 09:29 am  Link  Quote 
Model
angel emily
Posts: 1,020
Boston, Massachusetts, US


If there 's no commercial issue, don't pay photographers please!

How do you feel about that?

Dec 30 12 09:30 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Urbiefoto
Posts: 92
Arlington, Virginia, US


The models I work with aren't doing it for fun.  In large part, they make a large portion of their income from modeling.  Since they need to rely on their craft for that money, they are more motivated to provide a quality product.  Like someone said earlier - you get what you pay for.
Dec 30 12 09:31 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
JAE
Posts: 2,140
West Chester, Pennsylvania, US


Some people are willing to invest more money in a hobby then others.

*shrug*
Dec 30 12 09:31 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Urbiefoto
Posts: 92
Arlington, Virginia, US


model emily  wrote:

How do you feel about that?

+1

Dec 30 12 09:31 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 12,801
Atlanta, Georgia, US


tonyfromsyracuse wrote:
WE.....need models more than they need us. so we have to offer an incentive otherwise it will be back to the days of bananas in a bowl.

the days of rock star photographers is coming to a close what with affordable cameras and intuitive software programs that can put hundreds of template sheens and concepts on pictures. I know thats difficult to swallow, but you've all seen the ports on MM.

yes many photos look amazing....but essencially you are seeing clones of the same poses and concepts....only the names and models are changed.
why pay? cause the models themselves here are finally starting to understand, they dont "need" us to take nude pictures of them.

they are starting to understand they are so beautiful...WE need them, which is why so many now, are moving towards... pay me.

Funny I heard this when 35mm started to take hold.  All those cheap cameras were going to end professional photography.  Its not the gear and in major markets there are far more models then qualified photographers.

Dec 30 12 09:31 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Shot By Adam
Posts: 5,865
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


r4u wrote:
They say " every work must be paid"
I don't consider art as a work.
And a photograph (true one;) ) works too, no?
If there 's no commercial issue, don't pay models please!

Wow...this thread is going to go over about as good as a fart in church.

http://www.shotbyadam.com/images/fail.jpg

Dec 30 12 09:40 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,554
Salem, Oregon, US


how else do you get them to show up? lol.
Dec 30 12 09:47 am  Link  Quote 
Model
orias
Posts: 5,036
Tampa, Florida, US


r4u wrote:
They say " every work must be paid"
I don't consider art as a work.
And a photograph (true one;) ) works too, no?
If there 's no commercial issue, don't pay models please!

yeah why would you pay anyone for their time, their skills, their effort, etc.

that's just CRAZINESS

DONT PAY ANYONE PLEASE!   

if you're not making money off of your pipes,  DONT PAY YOUR PLUMBER PLEASE!

if you're not making money on your home, DONT PAY YOUR LANDLORD PLEASE!

if you're not making money off your pants,  DONT  PAY YOUR RETAILER PLEASE!

if you're not making money off your pot pie,  DONT PAY YOUR CAFE PLEASE!

if you're not making money off your water,  DONT PAY YOUR UTILITIES PLEASE!

if you pay these people and everyone else,   they will start to think they have any sort of value,  we would like them to start thinking that they are worthless and exist only to please us PLEASE


this is literally the dumbest thing i have heard all month and there has been some STIFF competition.

Work (scalar quantity in physics)
"The transfer of energy from one physical system to another, especially the transfer of energy to a body by the application of a force that moves the body in the direction of the force.

YEah art involves no energy expendature whatsoever.  There isn't picking up of a camera, posing of the model, photo editing, model prep hair and makeup, etc. 

this is totally worth the brigging,  what IQ do you have?

Dec 30 12 09:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
KonstantKarma
Posts: 2,513
Hickory, North Carolina, US


I checked your port, OP, and I'm curious how you feel that's working out for you there.
Dec 30 12 09:54 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Sirensong
Posts: 2,173
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom


r4u wrote:
They say " every work must be paid"
I don't consider art as a work.
And a photograph (true one;) ) works too, no?
If there 's no commercial issue, don't pay models please!

Yes Dear, of course..
*pat pat pat*

Dec 30 12 09:55 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bill Tracy Photography
Posts: 2,293
Montague, New Jersey, US


If you are giving them images from the shoot, guess what...  you ARE paying them.
Dec 30 12 09:57 am  Link  Quote 
Model
orias
Posts: 5,036
Tampa, Florida, US


Bill Tracy Photography wrote:
If you are giving them images from the shoot, guess what...  you ARE paying them.

stop being logical, you're ruining this lol

Dec 30 12 09:59 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Silver Mirage
Posts: 1,578
Plainview, Texas, US


r4u wrote:
They say " every work must be paid"
I don't consider art as a work.
And a photograph (true one;) ) works too, no?
If there 's no commercial issue, don't pay models please!

Have to disagree here. Sometimes art can be a collaboration or trade, but other times it is better to hire a model. With an trade model I am limited to models who feel my work will benefit their portfolios or who share my vision. And if I want them to come back I need to be sure the work pleases them. With a paid model I can stick to my own vision and can have a wider choice of people to work with.

I might point out that almost all the great sculptors and painters used hired models. It is not like this is anything new.

Dec 30 12 10:01 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Beautifully Soft Focus
Posts: 529
Peoria, Illinois, US


RBM Photo wrote:

Yan Tan Tethera wrote:
Interesting. Why would it concern you what I or any other photographer on here does?

I'm currently paying models in order that I'm under no obligation to provide images.

It works for me.

+1

FoxyStudios wrote:
I only pay models, Why ? because this is my product im making and as sure as I want full control of my camera I want full control of my project.

+2


+10,000

Amen to the 'TRUTH'

Be easy,

Alvin

Dec 30 12 10:07 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Jordan Bunniie
Posts: 1,691
Los Angeles, California, US


Why do you feel the need to come into the model forum saying we dont deserve to be paid?
Dec 30 12 10:18 am  Link  Quote 
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