Danielle Kitten wrote:
Most rant threads mention boyfriends

Only if they're acting as managers or insist on being escorts.  If a photographer cares if a model has a boyfriend, I'd have to assume that photographer is using his camera as an extension of his penis.

Danielle Kitten wrote:
I've been stalking the forums a bit and noticed a few things that photographers hate about models. No tattoos, no weird hair color, no boyfriends, if you have a manager then you're a fake and that manager is just your pimp/boyfriend. You have an agency? Then why are you even on MM? Pretty much it seems if you're a model you only show up when they say, shut the hell up, and be a good little girl.

Don't get me wrong, I've just been on the outside looking in. I'm still new for the most part but is this how the industry is?

No, this is not how the industry is. However, it is how this circle of people who have the common interest/agendas are.

Danielle Kitten wrote:
Pretty much it seems if you're a llama you only show up when they say, shut the hell up, and be a good little girl.

How is this unlike any other job.

In any job they want you to show up when they say, shut the hell up and do your job and be a good little boy or girl do they not?

I however prefer to collaborate and have fun in the process and do not want it to feel like work for me or the llama.

But I still want them to show up, and do their job and be a good girl meaning not flake or cause problems or create drama.

Nico Simon Princely wrote:

How is this unlike any other job.

In any job they want you to show up when they say, shut the hell up and do your job and be a good little boy or girl do they not?

I however prefer to collaborate and have fun in the process and do not want it to feel like work for me or the model.

But I still want them to show up, and do their job and be a good girl meaning not flake or cause problems or create drama.

I concur!!!!

Funny thing is, I can't get a gal with weird hair color and tatoos to shoot with me!

Danielle Kitten wrote:
Most rant threads mention boyfriends

In the context of the BF being the Manager and/or llama herder. They call them Sluggos. No one honestly cares about your love life as long as you don't let it get in the way of a shoot.

Danielle Kitten wrote:
is this how the industry is?

No but it is how some in MM are..unfortunately. MM is not the industry, just do your thing and avoid the negative and you'll be fine.

Danielle Kitten wrote:
I've been stalking the forums a bit and noticed a few things that photographers hate about models. No tattoos, no weird hair color, no boyfriends, if you have a manager then you're a fake and that manager is just your pimp/boyfriend. You have an agency? Then why are you even on MM? Pretty much it seems if you're a model you only show up when they say, shut the hell up, and be a good little girl.

Don't get me wrong, I've just been on the outside looking in. I'm still new for the most part but is this how the industry is?

What industry?

MM ain't no industry.

Michael Broughton wrote:
I DEMAND TATTOOS AND WEIRD HAIR COLOUR!!!

Ya, but anyone who lives in Winterpeg, has got to be a little bit weird.

Nico Simon Princely wrote:

How is this unlike any other job.

In any job they want you to show up when they say, shut the hell up and do your job and be a good little boy or girl do they not?

I however prefer to collaborate and have fun in the process and do not want it to feel like work for me or the model.

But I still want them to show up, and do their job and be a good girl meaning not flake or cause problems or create drama.

QFT

Danielle Kitten wrote:
I've been stalking the forums a bit and noticed a few things that photographers hate about models. No tattoos, no weird hair color, no boyfriends, if you have a manager then you're a fake and that manager is just your pimp/boyfriend. You have an agency? Then why are you even on MM? Pretty much it seems if you're a model you only show up when they say, shut the hell up, and be a good little girl.

Don't get me wrong, I've just been on the outside looking in. I'm still new for the most part but is this how the industry is?

Tattoos and hair color is a matter of preference. For the rest; yes, don't bring a manager or boyfriend and the photographer will be happy :-)

Danielle Kitten wrote:
I've been stalking the forums a bit and noticed a few things that photographers hate about models. No tattoos, no weird hair color, no boyfriends, if you have a manager then you're a fake and that manager is just your pimp/boyfriend. You have an agency? Then why are you even on MM? Pretty much it seems if you're a model you only show up when they say, shut the hell up, and be a good little girl.

Don't get me wrong, I've just been on the outside looking in. I'm still new for the most part but is this how the industry is?

That's only the photographers who post. Most aren't like that.

Danielle Kitten wrote:
I've been stalking the forums a bit and noticed a few things that photographers hate about models. No tattoos, no weird hair color, no boyfriends, if you have a manager then you're a fake and that manager is just your pimp/boyfriend. You have an agency? Then why are you even on MM? Pretty much it seems if you're a model you only show up when they say, shut the hell up, and be a good little girl.

Don't get me wrong, I've just been on the outside looking in. I'm still new for the most part but is this how the industry is?

1st MM is not the industry. Its just a community for internet modeling.

2cnd do not believe everything you read on MM forums it isn't that close to what really happens.

3rd You need to do what you are comfortable with. Set your business model and how you feel comfortable doing your business. If you feel comfortable and safe with llama herder then so be it. There are plenty that will work with you here. They just don't post to avoid being called white nights and don't need the crap.

4th I don't care for agencies. I manage my own without one. But this is a pref one you can decide for yourself. Not MM

5th Hair color can be changed to fit the role as well as other things. Tats that is what photoshop is good for if they are not wanted. Takes 20 seconds to remove them.

6 managers Bad Bad Idea. Don't fall for the manager BS. When you become a big star making over 6 figures a year then a real manager might be of interest. But for internet modeling it is not a real manager!

Danielle Kitten wrote:
I've been stalking the forums a bit and noticed a few things that photographers hate about models. No tattoos, no weird hair color, no boyfriends, if you have a manager then you're a fake and that manager is just your pimp/boyfriend. You have an agency? Then why are you even on MM? Pretty much it seems if you're a model you only show up when they say, shut the hell up, and be a good little girl.

Don't get me wrong, I've just been on the outside looking in. I'm still new for the most part but is this how the industry is?

Photographers are like everyone else..some are just asshats...can't do anything about that.  I love tattoos and weird hair myself!

Danielle Kitten wrote:
I've been stalking the forums a bit and noticed a few things that photographers hate about models. No tattoos, no weird hair color, no boyfriends, if you have a manager then you're a fake and that manager is just your pimp/boyfriend. You have an agency? Then why are you even on MM? Pretty much it seems if you're a model you only show up when they say, shut the hell up, and be a good little girl.

Don't get me wrong, I've just been on the outside looking in. I'm still new for the most part but is this how the industry is?

Photographers are not your confidant, confessor, psychologist, nanny, baby sitter, advisor, and the list goes on and on. We do not want to be subjected to your fears, insecurities, or those of some "boyfriend, manager, sluggo, pimpdaddywannabee, parents, friends, or some other well-meaning person," who has you believing that every situation is so fraught with danger, you need them to accompany you. Those who engaged in the above and call themselves "models" are usually trying to rebuild their self-esteem, at the expense of the photographers, so tell me, why should we tolerate such behavior for "free?" If you think you can show up to a job, then dictate terms to the employer, guess again.

As for the being on MM thing, if you are truly interested in modeling for profit, you should be with an agency. Can you imagine going to a doctor who does not have hospital privileges?

As for the "industry," get with an agency, a legitimate agency, and then you'll see how things really work. You're basing your opinion on an industry by social media...think again.

Caitin   wrote:
1st MM is not the industry. Its just a community for internet modeling.

2cnd do not believe everything you read on MM forums it isn't that close to what really happens.

3rd You need to do what you are comfortable with. Set your business model and how you feel comfortable doing your business. If you feel comfortable and safe with llama herder then so be it. There are plenty that will work with you here. They just don't post to avoid being called white nights and don't need the crap.

4th I don't care for agencies. I manage my own without one. But this is a pref one you can decide for yourself. Not MM

5th Hair color can be changed to fit the role as well as other things. Tats that is what photoshop is good for if they are not wanted. Takes 20 seconds to remove them.

6 managers Bad Bad Idea. Don't fall for the manager BS. When you become a big star making over 6 figures a year then a real manager might be of interest. But for internet modeling it is not a real manager!

no such thing as "internet modeling." The internet is an electronic construct, much like the newspaper or a magazine. We don't call those, "newspaper modeling," or "magazine modeling," do we?

Danielle Kitten wrote:
I've been stalking the forums a bit and noticed a few things that photographers hate about models. No tattoos, no weird hair color, no boyfriends, if you have a manager then you're a fake and that manager is just your pimp/boyfriend. You have an agency? Then why are you even on MM? Pretty much it seems if you're a model you only show up when they say, shut the hell up, and be a good little girl.

Don't get me wrong, I've just been on the outside looking in. I'm still new for the most part but is this how the industry is?

MM is not the "industry" The quicker you learn that the better

Caitin   wrote:
2cnd do not believe everything you read on MM forums it isn't that close to what really happens.

If the things mentioned in these forums happened as often as the posters would want you to believe, no one would ever shoot another frame. I have photographed models who have boyfriends (some have also been photographed together or separately), girlfriends, spouses, mangers, and llama herders as well as some who are fully independent. None of this has even gotten in the way of our creative collaboration. Decide on how you want your career to go, what your limits are (yes, they can change over time), and how and where you want to work and you'll be fine. Check references if you are unsure and have fun.

Danielle Kitten wrote:
I've been stalking the forums a bit and noticed a few things that photographers hate about models. No tattoos, no weird hair color, no boyfriends, if you have a manager then you're a fake and that manager is just your pimp/boyfriend. You have an agency? Then why are you even on MM? Pretty much it seems if you're a model you only show up when they say, shut the hell up, and be a good little girl.

Don't get me wrong, I've just been on the outside looking in. I'm still new for the most part but is this how the industry is?

All we really want from models is drama...and lots of it.  Otherwise it would just be another boring shoot where we work well together to create photos.  We hate that.

Nico Simon Princely wrote:

How is this unlike any other job.

In any job they want you to show up when they say, shut the hell up and do your job and be a good little boy or girl do they not?

I however prefer to collaborate and have fun in the process and do not want it to feel like work for me or the model.

But I still want them to show up, and do their job and be a good girl meaning not flake or cause problems or create drama.

+ 1000

Loki Studio wrote:
Danielle-

Don't make the mistake of assuming that MM is representative of the "modeling industry"-it is not.  In fact, very few models who actually make more than $2K a year in the US have profiles here.  MM may be the largest website for amateur models, and tall glamour models with large breasts, long hair, and few tattoos do get the most attention.  Modeling is a very competitive activity and you do not have a mainstream look.

Focus on working with skilled nude photographers to revamp your portfolio and you will get more offers for work.  A good portfolio, responsive and clear communication, and being flexible in working on shoots are more important to your success.

I know, thanks

Camerosity wrote:
I keep telling myself I’m going to stop posting this to escort threads…but it seems relevant, and it might give you a different perspective on things.

There always seem to be about three active threads about escorts – and if nothing else, they tend to make new models paranoid about being in a room with a photographer without a bodyguard present.

Kinda like I felt when I was a newspaper photographer, and I was alone in a jail cell, photographing a prisoner who 30 minutes earlier had been convicted of killing a hairdresser by soaking her in hairspray and setting her on fire. (His lawyer, a friend of mine, was just outside the cell – but the cell was locked, and the lawyer didn’t have the key.)

Since I started shooting again in September 2011, I’ve done 90+ shoots. The vast majority were without escorts.

However, I’ve shot three models who were accompanied by their husbands. No problems. One of them styles his wife’s wardrobe, and he’s very good at it. Another was learning to do his wife’s makeup, because he wanted to be involved in the modeling aspect of her life. Both were very helpful, both are aspiring photographers, and both have become good friends.

I’ve shot three models who were accompanied by fiancés. No problems. Also one who was accompanied by her mom, another by her uncle, one by a male friend/driver (the model is legally blind and can’t drive), one by her husband's best friend, one by a Lesbian lover, one by a sorority sister and another by a female friend. No problems.

Also, I’ve had three shoots where the models were accompanied by boyfriends. Also one accompanied by a manager, who apparently is also her boyfriend. Nothing but problems.

While the models always say they are escorted because of concerns for their safety, and the escorts will remain in the background and not interfere with the shoot, there is a certain type of boyfriend who is insecure and tries to control every aspect of his girlfriend’s life. Not surprisingly, this type seems to feel the need to be present whenever the model has a shoot.

This thread, which was begun by a model, seems to represent a situation in which the boyfriend was the escort for the boyfriend’s benefit, not the model’s:

https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thre … 995&page=1

The model who was accompanied by her manager came into the studio pulling two rolling suitcases full of wardrobe. (Well, he did hold the door open for her.) Each time we put together an outfit we liked, he didn’t like it. The problems were minimal. We just ignored him.

The other three boyfriends ended up yelling at the models for one reason or another. One model went to the ladies’ room in tears, and the shoot ended. Another walked out to her car in tears and drove off – leaving her boyfriend stranded at the studio. The other model stood her ground. They yelled at each other for about 20 minutes, and then the shoot resumed – but it wasn’t very productive.

The third model emailed me a few weeks ago and said she has dumped her boyfriend, and she’d like to do another shoot – as soon as she loses the 10-15 pounds she added as a result of the stress of that relationship.

That’s just my experience. I know other photographers who have similar stories.

A few days ago I told a model (who wants to bring a female friend when we shoot) that she could even bring her boyfriend if she wants. I know her well enough to know that she wouldn’t put up with that kind of crap.

I never tell a model that she can’t bring an escort. But if it turns out that the boyfriend is the escort, I stop and think about how much I want to shoot with the model. Then I’ll either cancel the shoot or take my chances.

Somewhere on MM, there’s probably a photographer who has done three shoots with husbands as escorts and has had bad experiences with all three – but I don’t know who it is. That photographer might have no hesitation about boyfriends – but cringes at the thought of having a husband as an escort.

I can only go by my experiences, because they are my only frame of reference.

These people should never be enabled with their behavior. Personal desires should remain between people, and not involve an unwitting, unsuspecting third party.

Nico Simon Princely wrote:
How is this unlike any other job.

In any job they want you to show up when they say, shut the hell up and do your job and be a good little boy or girl do they not?

I however prefer to collaborate and have fun in the process and do not want it to feel like work for me or the model.

But I still want them to show up, and do their job and be a good girl meaning not flake or cause problems or create drama.

This exactly. ^^^^With some additional thought of my own.

I don't care if you have a boyfriend / girlfriend but don't bring them to work.

I don't care if you have tats or hair color but we need to know that before scheduling a shoot and it obviously has to fit the shoot or you won't be the chosen model.

I agree that if you feel you need a manager, I think you're just making excuses to bring someone else to the shoots. I go to work every day and I've never needed a manager.

The Agency topic is also a good question. If you belong to an agency then the only reason you could possibly be on MM is to promote that agency which is against the rules.

Ultimately if you want to keep a photographer happy, show up on time, do a good job, act professional and respectful and hold up your end of the compensation deal, whatever that may be. That's really all we ask

Loki Studio wrote:
Danielle-

Don't make the mistake of assuming that MM is representative of the "modeling industry"-it is not.  In fact, very few models who actually make more than $2K a year in the US have profiles here.  MM may be the largest website for amateur models, and tall glamour models with large breasts, long hair, and few tattoos do get the most attention.  Modeling is a very competitive activity and you do not have a mainstream look.

Focus on working with skilled nude photographers to revamp your portfolio and you will get more offers for work.  A good portfolio, responsive and clear communication, and being flexible in working on shoots are more important to your success.

I'd have to agree with that.  I have quite a few professional model friends and they definitely aren't on here.  This is a good place for art models and models looking to build up a portfolio.  I doubt there are any models making 6 figures+ working off MM.  It is what it is though and everyone here has a reason to be here.

Danielle Kitten wrote:
Pretty much it seems if you're a model you only show up when they say, shut the hell up, and be a good little girl.

Don't get me wrong, I've just been on the outside looking in. I'm still new for the most part but is this how the industry is?

As far as I can tell the photographers who stalk the forums are almost entirely misogynists.  They treat women like objects, and expect the women to act accordingly.  The biggest telling sign is the infamous "next".  So I think your observations are pretty correct.  I don't see why models put up with their behavior.

Schlake wrote:
As far as I can tell the photographers who stalk the forums are almost entirely misogynists.  They treat women like objects, and expect the women to act accordingly.  The biggest telling sign is the infamous "next".  So I think your observations are pretty correct.  I don't see why llamas put up with their behavior.

Good thing I'm submissive then

Schlake wrote:

As far as I can tell the photographers who stalk the forums are almost entirely misogynists.  They treat women like objects, and expect the women to act accordingly.  The biggest telling sign is the infamous "next".  So I think your observations are pretty correct.  I don't see why models put up with their behavior.

What do you think modeling is, a convention of physicists, debating the Big Bang Theory? How is it mysogynistic to say to someone, this is your job, and this is what I need you to do without being distracted. If a "model" pulled any of the stuff they expect a photographer to put up with, on a job, they wouldn't have a job. Way too much enabling, and not enough understanding what your job decription, or career, entails.

pullins photography wrote:

What do you think modeling is, a convention of physicists, debating the Big Bang Theory? How is it mysogynistic to say to someone, this is your job, and this is what I need you to do without being distracted. If a "model" pulled any of the stuff they expect a photographer to put up with, on a job, they wouldn't have a job. Way too much enabling, and not enough understanding what your job decription, or career, entails.

And my point is proven with an example.