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Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 17,955
Albany, New York, US


They may not immediately volunteer those kinds of pictures because though they may tout themselves as doing nudes, many "photographers" here interpret a willingness to do such content as a euphemism for escort/prostitute work.
Jun 17 13 08:34 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Art of the nude
Posts: 11,864
Olivet, Michigan, US


Farenell Photography wrote:
They may not immediately volunteer those kinds of pictures because though they may tout themselves as doing nudes, many "photographers" here interpret a willingness to do such content as a euphemism for escort/prostitute work.

WHAT???????????

Jun 17 13 08:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
All Yours Photography
Posts: 2,303
Toledo, Ohio, US


Big A-Larger Than Life wrote:
I just show up at my job interviews naked to avoid any confusion.  Sometimes it causes five car pileups on the freeway with a few fatalities, but ya know, I got art to make. 

cool

Might be OK if you're interviewing for a modeling job, but could cause quite a stir if you're interviewing for a "day job".

Jun 17 13 08:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
MelissaAnn
Posts: 3,876
Seattle, Washington, US


Farenell Photography wrote:
They may not immediately volunteer those kinds of pictures because though they may tout themselves as doing nudes, many "photographers" here interpret a willingness to do such content as a euphemism for escort/prostitute work.
Art of the nude wrote:
WHAT???????????

He's just projecting.

Jun 17 13 08:39 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
- Aina -
Posts: 739
Redlands, California, US


Not all "nude models" have had the opportunity to shoot nude yet or have found "the right person" or project to shoot with. Some people prefer to be picky about who they start their nude work with.
Jun 17 13 08:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Wardrobe Stylist
Tiffany_B
Posts: 1,325
Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, US


- Aina - wrote:
Not all "nude models" have had the opportunity to shoot nude yet or have found "the right person" or project to shoot with. Some people prefer to be picky about who they start their nude work with.

Maybe this is just me (or perhaps it's too much to ask) BUT I would think that if you haven't actually shot nude yet that it'd be common sense NOT to advertise as a nude model since what works or seems like fun in theory doesn't always translate in practice. It seems to me that in this instance it'd be much more prudent for a model to actually do this type of shoot (or realize halfway through that she couldn't) before saying anything...I mean seriously would you trust me as a stylist if all of my images were of naked mannequins or an MUA that had zero pics of make-up that was up close...it's the same premise.

Jun 17 13 08:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
K I C K H A M
Posts: 14,630
Los Angeles, California, US


SPV Photo wrote:

It's also important to know what you look like nude when planning a non-nude shoot. Please send pics ASAP. tongue

Bahahaha. Almost spit my drink on my computer.

Jun 17 13 09:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Capitol City Boudoir
Posts: 745
Sacramento, California, US


I can think of dozens of reasons why a model who MAY be willing to CONSIDER posing nude for the RIGHT photographer may not want to have a portfolio full of nude images.  She may not want to convey the message or suggest that she's willing to shoot nudes with JUST ANY PHOTOGRAPHER.

If a model responds to one of my casting calls for an art nude model and they don't have a nude image in their portfolio I send the a PM.

I confirm that the casting call is for an ART NUDE model and provide a link to samples of what I'll be shooting.  I ask if she's still interested and that if she is, I let her know I need two recent images.  One, full length topless and the other, a close up of her face.  I also ask her to describe any tattoos or piercings that are not visible in the images.

No harm, no foul.  If she's interested, she'll send the images.  If she's not or she responded by mistake, I'll never hear from her.
Jun 17 13 09:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Innovative Imagery
Posts: 2,815
Los Angeles, California, US


MelissaAnn  wrote:

Check his casting http://www.modelmayhem.com/casting/1784698

He's casting for TF nudes.

You are taking my question out of context.  I cast for a variety of things.  It is just coincidental that there is a figure study experimental casting up now.  Even so, if it was for experimenting with nudes, I think you could draw the conclusion that I didn't have any to share as was trying to get get some practice in.  (This is not quite the case, but a reasonable inference).

My question was directed at those models who post their OWN castings as nude models, but don't have any images of themselves in their portfolio.  Just wanted to clarify that.

I also didn't mean to offend anyone with my choice of words.  Note, I didn't say you should, I asked if it was too much to ask.  Certainly, I do think that it makes sense that when you are marketing something based on its appearance, it seems appropriate to highlight that appearance in your marketing materials.

I could have put it in the Newbie forum, but chose to put it hear as the newbie forum is for more than just models and this question was directed at models.  I do expect that both newbies and seasoned models read here.  Perhaps I was mistaken?

Jun 18 13 12:15 am  Link  Quote 
Model
Kelly Kooper
Posts: 1,020
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia


Big A-Larger Than Life wrote:
I just show up at my job interviews naked to avoid any confusion.  Sometimes it causes five car pileups on the freeway with a few fatalities, but ya know, I got art to make. 

cool

That should solve the problem nicely tongue

Jun 18 13 12:51 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 17,955
Albany, New York, US


Art of the nude wrote:
WHAT???????????
MelissaAnn  wrote:
He's just projecting.

Uhm, no, I'm not projecting.

Many a models that I've worked with here specifically do not check the "does nudes" box because it makes them more findable by the pervs that get mixed in with those legitimate photographers & simply don't want to deal with the headaches of shitty offers, insulting offers, or sleazy being propositioned for sex offers should they agree to a shoot.

I'm not remotely saying such offers (from my conversations with the models) are fall into the majority but its a sizeable minority. Even as a photographer, I still get very "weird" offers of people wanting to do a two-person nude shoot (the frequency increases if I've posted a buxom model in my port) that's more cloaked as porn. Nothing against those who do it, its just not for me.

Also not posting nudes (or advertising they do such work), allows the models to shoot that content on their terms. They can either pick the quality that appeals to them or work with a person with whom they already have a trusting, productive work relationship instead of getting every Tom, Dick, & Jane approaching them for said content.

Jun 18 13 05:56 am  Link  Quote 
Wardrobe Stylist
Tiffany_B
Posts: 1,325
Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, US


Farenell Photography wrote:
Also not posting nudes (or advertising they do such work), allows the models to shoot that content on their terms. They can either pick the quality that appeals to them or work with a person with whom they already have a trusting, productive work relationship instead of getting every Tom, Dick, & Jane approaching them for said content.

I'm sorry but this is asinine. Whether or not a model posts she does nudes is irrelevant relative to them being able to shoot said content on their own terms. Unless modeling works vastly differently than every other area of the industry, being approached for a job you don't want is not the same as having to take that job...

Jun 18 13 06:07 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
Rays Fine Art
Posts: 6,070
New York, New York, US


K I C K H A M wrote:

The problem with this logic is that most of the girls in the forums are here a lot. We read, discuss and learn a lot from each other. Therefore, the audience you get here isn't really the audience you're trying to address.

When you come in and tell models what they need to/ should do, you stand the risk of annoying the good, dedicated models who may feel they're being talked down to, while the models you are actually trying to get through to generally don't pay attention or try to learn anyway.

Very, very true, but the other other side is that if those of us who use the forums don't use them to educate the newbies, how will any of them (i.e. the readers) catch on to how things work around here?  But I agree that one is more likely to get one's message across if it's not phrased in a negative way.

/hijack

Jun 18 13 07:17 am  Link  Quote 
Model
P I X I E
Posts: 35,309
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Farenell Photography wrote:

Art of the nude wrote:
WHAT???????????

Uhm, no, I'm not projecting.

Many a models that I've worked with here specifically do not check the "does nudes" box because it makes them more findable by the pervs that get mixed in with those legitimate photographers & simply don't want to deal with the headaches of shitty offers, insulting offers, or sleazy being propositioned for sex offers should they agree to a shoot.

I'm not remotely saying such offers (from my conversations with the models) are fall into the majority but its a sizeable minority. Even as a photographer, I still get very "weird" offers of people wanting to do a two-person nude shoot (the frequency increases if I've posted a buxom model in my port) that's more cloaked as porn. Nothing against those who do it, its just not for me.

Also not posting nudes (or advertising they do such work), allows the models to shoot that content on their terms. They can either pick the quality that appeals to them or work with a person with whom they already have a trusting, productive work relationship instead of getting every Tom, Dick, & Jane approaching them for said content.

In the 5 years I've been here, the number of such offers you're referring to that I got can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

Jun 18 13 07:23 am  Link  Quote 
Model
JessieLeigh
Posts: 2,014
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


K I C K H A M wrote:
"Is it too much to ask?" is not the best way to go into an informative thread. If I were wanting to give unsolicited advice, I might message the new girls who have responded to my casting. I might post in the newbie forum. Or perhaps I would say, "Casting responses/ portfolios I'm most likely to respond to."

When you start at a point of complaining rather than educating, you sound more like you're ranting than sincerely trying to help.

This is precisely why I replied in the manner which I did originally. I turned the question in the title back around to the photographer, because I disliked how he decided to word it.

Jun 18 13 07:25 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Decay of Memory
Posts: 580
Asheville, North Carolina, US


Farenell Photography wrote:
They may not immediately volunteer those kinds of pictures because though they may tout themselves as doing nudes, many "photographers" here interpret a willingness to do such content as a euphemism for llama herder/prostitute work.

How many? I wasn't aware it worked this way myself. In fact, I'd find it enlightening if you could point me to even one photographer who views all nude work as llama herder advertising. (there's probably one out there and I totally want to read his/her profile)

Jun 18 13 07:28 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 17,955
Albany, New York, US


P I X I E wrote:
In the 5 years I've been here, the number of such offers you're referring to that I got can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

Then consider yourself lucky.

This is the model-friend that I was referring to:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/semi234/Lauren%20Kiskiel/Jan%2026%202007/0264.jpg

I would get offers from people wanting to do duo nude shoot with her. It came from guys, it came from girls. It came from both model as well as photographers. Many of whom went into graphic detail of what they had in mind (as if that's something I wanted to know). It became was on such a regular basis & her answer to such request was always the same in the 10 years I've known her that I simply gave up forwarding such request. There's only so much I feel comfortable doing something like that before I get paranoid in thinking I'm simply doing so to flatter her.

She's hardly the only model with whom I've been subject to such requests.

Jun 18 13 10:10 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 17,955
Albany, New York, US


Decay of Memory wrote:
How many? I wasn't aware it worked this way myself. In fact, I'd find it enlightening if you could point me to even one photographer who views all nude work as escort advertising. (there's probably one out there and I totally want to read his/her profile)

You're the one making the "all" nude work distinction, not me.

The Mods would be in a better position to answer you're specific photographer question since that's their job. Most of the ones I knew who earned such a reputation was over on omp when I was on it a number of years back. Besides if I named them publicly, that'd be an "outing".

Jun 18 13 10:14 am  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Koryn
Posts: 36,360
Boston, Massachusetts, US


Danielle Reid wrote:
I'm going to start posting parts pictures. Right boob, left boob, under boob, right cheek, left cheek, belly button, arm pit, left nostril...

Me too. Left big toe might look different than the right one. Details are important.

Jun 18 13 10:39 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Innovative Imagery
Posts: 2,815
Los Angeles, California, US


Farenell Photography wrote:
Also not posting nudes (or advertising they do such work), allows the models to shoot that content on their terms. They can either pick the quality that appeals to them or work with a person with whom they already have a trusting, productive work relationship instead of getting every Tom, Dick, & Jane approaching them for said content.

I think the main point in the OP that you are missing is that those model who DO advertise for nude work, yet DON'T have nude images of them in their portfolio.

NOT just models who may or may not accept  a nude request, if offered to them.

Jun 18 13 02:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Innovative Imagery
Posts: 2,815
Los Angeles, California, US


JessieLeigh wrote:
I guess sending a model a message to ask for a current photo is too much to ask of photographers...

I guess you don't feel that the seller of the service should service their clients as best as possible?  Make it as easy as possible to make the choice to hire them?  Is it necessary or a good thing to make them take extra steps?  If you think so, please explain why this is a good thing. 

Remember, we are talking about models who ARE advertising themselves as nude models, not just models in general.

Jun 18 13 02:26 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
JessieLeigh
Posts: 2,014
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Innovative Imagery wrote:

JessieLeigh wrote:
I guess sending a model a message to ask for a current photo is too much to ask of photographers...

I guess you don't feel that the seller of the service should service their clients as best as possible?  Make it as easy as possible to make the choice to hire them?  Is it necessary or a good thing to make them take extra steps?  If you think so, please explain why this is a good thing. 

Remember, we are talking about models who ARE advertising themselves as nude models, not just models in general.

I'll just quote myself since it seems you did not read the entire thread:

JessieLeigh wrote:

This is precisely why I replied in the manner which I did originally. I turned the question in the title back around to the photographer, because I disliked how he decided to word it.

Jun 18 13 02:40 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 17,955
Albany, New York, US


Innovative Imagery wrote:
I think the main point in the OP that you are missing is that those model who DO advertise for nude work, yet DON'T have nude images of them in their portfolio.

As other have suggested to the OP, he can either request raw nude images or links to them or pass them over.

Their port is their port & they're free to pick what they feel is best for them. Just like a photographer is free to pick what they feel is best for their own port.

Jun 18 13 03:44 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Photographer
CHAD ALAN
Posts: 3,351
Los Angeles, California, US


If a model wants to be considered for a paid or trade shoot and:

You like her face but no nudes in her port, then it can't hurt to ask for samples. If she says no, then you haven't lost anything. You made an effort because you liked her look.

A little effort on both sides goes a long way. Whether someone does or doesn't have relevant samples to show online is the way they choose to market themselves.

The smart ones will have relevant work online, or samples ready to email if their port doesn't reflect the type of work they are seeking or being considered for.

I've been lucky so far. I've asked and received. So far no one has called me a perv for it, but I am very careful with the way I word things smile

It's never a "must have". I always say if they are comfortable with sending, then it's appreciated and explain the reason why. Whether they do or don't, factors into my decision.
Jun 18 13 04:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Innovative Imagery
Posts: 2,815
Los Angeles, California, US


JessieLeigh wrote:

Innovative Imagery wrote:

JessieLeigh wrote:
I guess sending a model a message to ask for a current photo is too much to ask of photographers...

I guess you don't feel that the seller of the service should service their clients as best as possible?  Make it as easy as possible to make the choice to hire them?  Is it necessary or a good thing to make them take extra steps?  If you think so, please explain why this is a good thing. 

Remember, we are talking about models who ARE advertising themselves as nude models, not just models in general.

I'll just quote myself since it seems you did not read the entire thread:


OK, I understand you have a problem with my choice of wording.  However, that doesn't address the underlying concept of the question.  Perhaps you would address that part of the topic now?

Jun 18 13 06:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Innovative Imagery
Posts: 2,815
Los Angeles, California, US


Farenell Photography wrote:
As other have suggested to the OP, he can either request raw nude images or links to them or pass them over.

Their port is their port & they're free to pick what they feel is best for them. Just like a photographer is free to pick what they feel is best for their own port.

OK, then is it fair to assume that you don't think it is all necessary for those who ARE ADVERTISING for nude work, not just sitting by in case it wanders up to them, but actually seeking it via posting castings and availability notices, to have sample imagery to support the work they are seeking?   

Because that is the question I asked.  Not were there any number of other ways to solicit the info, but should it be already included in their ports?

Jun 18 13 06:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Wardrobe Stylist
Tiffany_B
Posts: 1,325
Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, US


chadsimages wrote:
If a model wants to be considered for a paid or trade shoot and:

You like her face but no nudes in her port, then it can't hurt to ask for samples. If she says no, then you haven't lost anything. You made an effort because you liked her look.

A little effort on both sides goes a long way. Whether someone does or doesn't have relevant samples to show online is the way they choose to market themselves.

The smart ones will have relevant work online, or samples ready to email if their port doesn't reflect the type of work they are seeking or being considered for.

I've been lucky so far. I've asked and received. So far no one has called me a perv for it, but I am very careful with the way I word things smile

It's never a "must have". I always say if they are comfortable with sending, then it's appreciated and explain the reason why. Whether they do or don't, factors into my decision.

This advice works in the case that the photographer is looking for models but it's irrelevant in terms of what the OP actually posted. The question was relative to models who advertised as nude models specifically not models who made no mention of it in your port.

And count yourself lucky that you haven't been called a perv, I once PM'd a model who responded to a casting requesting a recent image since I noted her last upload was over 3 months ago (something which I pointed out in my politely worded message) and she told me she "didn't send those kind of pics" to strangers on the internet because I could be a "pervert or something." Note that all I asked for was a recent full length image and a recent headshot...

Jun 18 13 06:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Farenell Photography
Posts: 17,955
Albany, New York, US


Innovative Imagery wrote:
OK, then is it fair to assume that you don't think it is all necessary for those who ARE ADVERTISING for nude work, not just sitting by in case it wanders up to them, but actually seeking it via posting castings and availability notices, to have sample imagery to support the work they are seeking?

It like whether having a polaroid'like/cell photo self pic is useful to ones port or not that was debated in site-related awhile back:

http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=894054

Whether a model already includes nudes is absolutely critical for a photographer's selection process while for some it isn't so much. You, nor I can control what other people include in their ports. The best we can do is either accept them if it doesn't meet our required visual criteria, ask for the necessary information that allows us to make an informed decision, or simply pass them over.

Jun 18 13 07:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 27,462
Dearborn, Michigan, US


Big A-Larger Than Life wrote:
I just show up at my job interviews naked to avoid any confusion.  Sometimes it causes five car pileups on the freeway with a few fatalities, but ya know, I got art to make. 

cool

You are a road hazard!   big_smile

Jun 18 13 07:41 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 27,462
Dearborn, Michigan, US


natural beauties of qld wrote:

If only all models shared your attitude!!

There are models who come to shoots with just a dress on.  They just slip off the dress and the are nude.  smile

Jun 18 13 07:43 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 27,462
Dearborn, Michigan, US


K I C K H A M wrote:

Because knowing what a model's body looks like is important when planning a nude shoot.

+1

Jun 18 13 07:47 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
JessieLeigh
Posts: 2,014
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Innovative Imagery wrote:
OK, I understand you have a problem with my choice of wording.  However, that doesn't address the underlying concept of the question.  Perhaps you would address that part of the topic now?

Sure.

I can not ignore what others in the thread have already pointed out. You are complaining about models doing something (or rather, their failure to do something) while you are doing that exact same thing. You currently have a casting up for nude work, and your profile contains zero photos that show your skills as a nude photographer. So if a model is interested in shooting nudes with you, what does she have to do to see examples of your work? Contact you to ask.

And yet you are ranting about models posting castings without nudes in their port, because apparently, contacting them to request them is too much to ask. To me, this makes your thread come across as little more than a poorly worded, hypocritical rant.

Jun 19 13 07:45 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photographe
Posts: 2,350
Bristol, England, United Kingdom


I'm ok with there being no nudes in a portfolio advertising nude work,

but only IF

I can see bare arms, bare legs, a lingerie shot or swimwear shot.

There are models who advertise all kinds of genre, but these models don't actually have a full length picture of themselves, nor any image which shows their skin/body, not even a bare arm or leg. THIS is impossible to cast, book, determine suitability etc.

I did recently reject an MM model who asked me for nude work and I stated clearly because it was there was no nude work in her port. I said this because in THIS case, I was unable to determine if she was a beginner who was biting off more than she could chew, or she really was serious about nude work. She came back literally a week later with samples of art nude in her port, proving me totally wrong and I've tentatively pencilled her in for a shoot in future.

The only reason I rejected her initially though, was a question mark over confidence, as I didn't/couldn't see that she had done it before. I felt like I was saying what the industry would say to her, rather than what I wanted to say, but I felt I was saying what she needed to hear.
Jun 19 13 08:33 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
FredSugar
Posts: 215
Dallas, Texas, US


JessieLeigh wrote:
I guess sending a model a message to ask for a current photo is too much to ask of photographers...

Maybe for some of them, but I always ask for a current photo.  Too many things can change daily.

Jun 19 13 08:40 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RKD Photographic
Posts: 3,265
Iserlohn, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany


Doesn't even have to be nude shots.
I think a folder with a couple of bikini shots in it - even if only self-shot with a cell-phone - isn't beyond the competence of anyone these days...
If someone is saying they can't tell what a girl's figure is like from a bikini shot then I start to question their motives TBH...

And no I don't think it's too much to ask.

Then again I've more or less given up worrying about it - like new models showing up with a couple of cell-phone shots of them in a pretty dress, asking for portrait-fashion and only accepting pay-jobs...

Jog-on dears...
Jun 19 13 08:52 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kens Lens
Posts: 804
Aurora, Colorado, US


RKD Photographic wrote:
If someone is saying they can't tell what a girl's figure is like from a bikini shot then I start to question their motives TBH...

Relying on bikini shots is how a 36C measurement turns into a 36-long at the shoot.

Jun 19 13 09:10 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Innovative Imagery
Posts: 2,815
Los Angeles, California, US


JessieLeigh wrote:

Sure.

I can not ignore what others in the thread have already pointed out. You are complaining about models doing something (or rather, their failure to do something) while you are doing that exact same thing. You currently have a casting up for nude work, and your profile contains zero photos that show your skills as a nude photographer. So if a model is interested in shooting nudes with you, what does she have to do to see examples of your work? Contact you to ask.

And yet you are ranting about models posting castings without nudes in their port, because apparently, contacting them to request them is too much to ask. To me, this makes your thread come across as little more than a poorly worded, hypocritical rant.

Well we are going to have to agree to disagree.  I think a casting for "experimental figure studies" is quite different than if I posted an "advertisement" for "producing great nudes for you."   I think the latter would require proof in the form of portfolio pictures as I am desiring from models who advertise their services.

Jun 19 13 09:20 am  Link  Quote 
Model
JessieLeigh
Posts: 2,014
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


Innovative Imagery wrote:
Well we are going to have to agree to disagree.  I think a casting for "experimental figure studies" is quite different than if I posted an "advertisement" for "producing great nudes for you."

That doesn't surprise me in the slightest. You most likely would not have made this thread if you didn't think there were quite different.

From where I sit, they are quite similar.

Jun 19 13 09:24 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Photographe
Posts: 2,350
Bristol, England, United Kingdom


Most of the best nude work I have done, was with people who had never done it before, however I don't think I booked any of them without seeing at least either a swimwear shot or having met them in person first. I was shooting nudes without having nudes in my port, but I had already demonstrated an ability to make people look beautiful and competence with deshabille situations, like lingerie. I know there are some hardcore art nude people out there who need to inspect every single pubic hair before booking, but for most of us, the general idea of a person's body and skin should suffice.
Jun 19 13 09:42 am  Link  Quote 
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