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Model
AlexaRose
Posts: 29
Spokane, Washington, US


When a photographer asks to do a shoot, my first instinct is to look at their profile and decide if I'm even remotely interested. Oftentimes, the answer to that question is no. Maybe they didn't understand that if I do nudes, they are ONLY artistic (or we have a different definition of what "art" is), or I have taken better pictures of myself with a timer, or maybe I just think their choice of models isn't something I connect with or want to associate with.

Is there any way to convey to photographers that I don't want to work with them that isn't going to get me a reputation of being rude or snobby? Is that even something I should worry about?
Sep 09 13 02:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Toto Photo
Posts: 2,597
Belmont, California, US


I'd be concise and clear, but polite. Beyond that, I wouldn't worry about it.

If I could magically collect the data, I'm pretty sure the folks who respond to clear and polite in a negative manner are most likely folks you'd want to stay clear of anyway--trying to bully or manipulate what they can't earn through talent.
Sep 09 13 02:38 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Good Egg Productions
Posts: 15,300
Orlando, Florida, US


I wouldn't worry about it too much.

You're probably in some good demand. Saying no thank you to trade shoots at this point won't likely change that.
Sep 09 13 02:43 pm  Link  Quote 
guide forum
Model
Anna Adrielle
Posts: 18,762
Antwerp, Antwerp, Belgium


thank you for your interest and for taking the time to write me. At the moment, I am not interested in working together (you *could* insert the reason after this as well, like "because your offer is not what I'm looking to shoot at this point" or "because I don't feel like I would benefit enough from this shoot to justify shooting TF with you" but that's always a bit tricky). Regards, ...

the only thing you can control is how you behave. You could write the most kind, polite reply in the history of replies, and there will still be a butthurt photographer here and there who thinks he's god's greatest gift to models and that you're a stuck up amateur snob for refusing his offer. So you just do what you can do, and don't worry about what other people think smile
Sep 09 13 02:49 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Thinking Inside The Box
Posts: 250
Diamond Bar, California, US


A lot of it also depends on why you're not interested.

If their work is merely insufficiently good to be worth trading with, but acceptable otherwise, quote them your rates. Just because you can't put their work in your book doesn't mean you can't put it in your wallet. smile

If you don't want to be associated in any way, something which lets them know there's a style inconsistency lets them save face. (Unless they're wackos, but there's not much that can be done about that.)

If their work is ok enough, but not what you're interested in shooting, let them know there's a style inconsistency, and possibly ask if they do some other kind of work.

Most photographers are reasonable. Most reasonable photographers are used to rejection. That doesn't mean we LIKE it, but photographers get rejected just like models do. Don't go out of your way to be rude, and it'll be fine most of the time.
Sep 09 13 02:53 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
AlexaRose
Posts: 29
Spokane, Washington, US


Thank you all so much for your replies-they certainly help/make me feel better about it!

My biggest problem was when I told a young guy with a camera that I didn't think I needed the type of work he did for my portfolio right now (since he wanted a trade shoot) and it was like I just killed his artistic puppy. But I'll stick with polite and kind and hope for the best smile
Sep 09 13 02:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Natural Means
Posts: 549
Sydney, New South Wales, Australia


Toto Photo wrote:
I'd be concise and clear, but polite. Beyond that, I wouldn't worry about it.

If I could magically collect the data, I'm pretty sure the folks who respond to clear and polite in a negative manner are most likely folks you'd want to stay clear of anyway--trying to bully or manipulate what they can't earn through talent.

What he said. Plus add "thanks for your interest."

Sep 09 13 02:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
RTE Photography
Posts: 992
NORTH HOLLYWOOD, California, US


Looking at their profile and their portfolio is a good way to start. That will give you a good feeling for what they are trying to achieve. Then see if they are even asking for a nude shoot, they may be having something else in mind. I see that you have shoot nude checked in your profile so that may be the reason they contacted you in the first place. Many models who do shoot nude don't check this, since that way they don't show up on the searches that photographers do who are just looking for nude models. It saves a lot of trouble trying to explain why you won't shoot nude with them.
At the end, you just have to do what you think is right for you and not worry if some photographer gets his panties all in a knot because you don't want to shoot with him. Just move on.
Sep 09 13 02:58 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Volition Graphics
Posts: 411
Seattle, Washington, US


You can practice on me since we have about zero genres in common.
I don't bite.
I promise wink
Sep 09 13 03:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Toto Photo
Posts: 2,597
Belmont, California, US


AlexaRose wrote:
Thank you all so much for your replies-they certainly help/make me feel better about it!

My biggest problem was when I told a young guy with a camera that I didn't think I needed the type of work he did for my portfolio right now (since he wanted a trade shoot) and it was like I just killed his artistic puppy. But I'll stick with polite and kind and hope for the best smile

Sounds like a plan. If he's that easily crushed, you've actually shortened his learining curve to-a-different-hobby significantly, saving him considerable time and money. He probably won't see it that way, but the average learning curve to greatness is 10,000 hours and it takes resilience.

Sep 09 13 03:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Artist/Painter
MainePaintah
Posts: 1,709
Saco, Maine, US


I have had my "artistic puppy" stomped on a few times, yet I'm still alive and painting!

Some will get butthurt, some won't!

Be yourself!
Sep 09 13 03:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
kevin bellanger
Posts: 465
Albany, New York, US


AlexaRose wrote:
When a photographer asks to do a shoot, my first instinct is to look at their profile and decide if I'm even remotely interested. Oftentimes, the answer to that question is no. Maybe they didn't understand that if I do nudes, they are ONLY artistic (or we have a different definition of what "art" is), or I have taken better pictures of myself with a timer, or maybe I just think their choice of models isn't something I connect with or want to associate with.

Is there any way to convey to photographers that I don't want to work with them that isn't going to get me a reputation of being rude or snobby? Is that even something I should worry about?

remotely interested?  Why are you here?

Sep 09 13 03:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Jules NYC
Posts: 16,091
New York, New York, US


No thank you.

Why give a reason.
Sep 09 13 03:14 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 21,135
Portland, Oregon, US


AlexaRose wrote:
When a photographer asks to do a shoot, my first instinct is to look at their profile and decide if I'm even remotely interested. Oftentimes, the answer to that question is no. Maybe they didn't understand that if I do nudes, they are ONLY artistic (or we have a different definition of what "art" is), or I have taken better pictures of myself with a timer, or maybe I just think their choice of models isn't something I connect with or want to associate with.

Is there any way to convey to photographers that I don't want to work with them that isn't going to get me a reputation of being rude or snobby? Is that even something I should worry about?

1)  If it's a TF* proposed arrangement, you certainly can say "no" to any offer that won't improve your portfolio.  If the proposal is similar to stuff you already have, saying "no" is a possibly appropriate option.

2)  If it''s a proposal for paid work, I think you should say "yes" even if the guy is not "up to your standards".  After all, you are being hired to help the guy out, and as a paid model, you aren't getting images for your portfolio.  Caveat #1:  you certainly are entitled to your posing limits -- for example, if your limit is "artistic nudes" and the photographer has "erotic nudes" in his portfolio, you should mention what your limits are, and if he is willing to work within your limits, go ahead & consider the offer.  Caveat #2:  If you are getting tons of offers & your available appointment slots are filled, it's okay to raise your rates.

3)  When saying "no", take great care not to give the guy an unsolicited critique.  Never say anything like "Your work is not up to my standards".  Take the fault onto yourself, as in "I feel that this kind of photograph is well represented in my portfolio; sorry, I don't feel I can use any more".

4)  There are all sorts of compensation.  Models tend to think that there are only two:  limited usage rights from TF* sessions and cash payments.  There is a third that is often overlooked:  networking.  An initial session with a new-to-you photographer is the best introduction, not only to the photographer but also to that photographer's friends & acquaintances. 

5)  Keep it short & sweet.  Don't write a novel.  You don't have to explain your decision (in fact, you shouldn't explain your decision).  Don't get involved in a debate.  Just be clear.

Sometimes, models are so popular that they have to be selective, and there's nothing wrong with that.  But sometimes, the best thing a model can do is to keep busy, and sometimes, I think some models are more selective & judgmental than they should be.  (I have no opinion one way or another with regards to the OP).

Good luck.

Sep 09 13 03:18 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Toto Photo
Posts: 2,597
Belmont, California, US


kevin bellanger wrote:
remotely interested?  Why are you here?

I read that as: she glanced at the port and wasn't interested. Then gave it a second glance to see if there was even a remote possibility of interest. How did you read it?

Sep 09 13 03:19 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Gene Cannon
Posts: 83
Wendell, North Carolina, US


First of all, you are not required to respond to the photographer; however, I personally appreciate some type of response such as "No, I am not interested" or "I appreciate your request...however after viewing your MM portfolio I am really not interested at this time. Your photography is appealing and I will keep you in mind if my desires and needs change."
Sep 09 13 03:23 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Marin Photography NYC
Posts: 7,096
New York, New York, US


Most people here just don't respond at all..... big_smile  I don't agree with it but no response is a response....Sometimes it's easier than arguing with a butt hurt turd....  big_smile
Sep 09 13 03:24 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
LMG Images
Posts: 673
Nashville, Tennessee, US


If you don't want to work with me, it saves us both time for you not to write back.

I never expect a response.  When I get one, I'm pleasantly surprised.  With low expectations, I live in BLISS. smile
Sep 09 13 03:32 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
AlexaRose
Posts: 29
Spokane, Washington, US


RTE Photography wrote:
Many models who do shoot nude don't check this, since that way they don't show up on the searches that photographers do who are just looking for nude models. It saves a lot of trouble trying to explain why you won't shoot nude with them.

I'll do that smile save everyone lots of time

@PictureItYakima- haha, you understand! You do beautiful pictures, however smile

@Toto Foto-when you put it that way I feel much less awful ^_^

@Kevin-to find photographers who want to do the same type of work I do? Sometimes photographers envision you doing something you simply do not care to do.

@Looknsee- Those are some excellent rules to abide by, thank you for that. Generally speaking, I MAKE time in my regular life for shoots that I want to do, is it inappropriate to not want to work with an artist I simply don't like the work of or want a higher rate if it's a photographer I'm not so interested in? I value my "real life" time much more than the money I get paid, you know?

@everyone else. I have read, appreciated and seriously thought about everything you've said. I just think if I respond to everyone individually this thing is going to get really long. THANK YOU!!

Sep 09 13 03:36 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Isis22
Posts: 2,482
Muncie, Indiana, US


Jules NYC wrote:
No thank you.

Why give a reason.

+1 The less you say, the better. Short and Sweet.

Sep 09 13 03:50 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,320
Salem, Oregon, US


if you don't want to do trade you can:

* ignore them and they'll make a thread about models who are rude

* say "no thanks" and wait to get flamed by a butthurt photographer

* send them your rates and get yelled at because you shouldn't be charging yet

take your pick :-; personally i might choose the first option.
Sep 09 13 04:02 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Rudolph Uhlman Photo
Posts: 164
Pendleton, Oregon, US


As a small town part-time photographer 300 miles from anywhere the most common response I receive, when I receive a response, is something to the effect of "I like your work, but you live so far away from me that I couldn't possibly travel that far for a shoot with you even though I really like your style." even after offering to pay for lodging or travel.
Sep 09 13 04:15 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Connor Photography
Posts: 6,458
Elkton, Maryland, US


Jules NYC wrote:
No thank you.

Why give a reason.
Isis22 wrote:
+1 The less you say, the better. Short and Sweet.

Or if you feel that you want to help the poor fellow to get better.

You can add this to you reply. 

Your work sucks!!!

big_smile

Sep 09 13 04:45 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Mark C Smith
Posts: 792
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Jules NYC wrote:
No thank you.

Why give a reason.

This. If a model doesn't want to work with me, I don't need her to give me any reason at all. If she chooses to tell me why, that's fine. But I don't expect it.

As usual, no response is a pretty clear response too. And there is nothing rude about it. (Though it's incredibly rude if you initiated the conversation to then go AWOL/silent)

Sep 09 13 05:05 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
kevin bellanger
Posts: 465
Albany, New York, US


Toto Photo wrote:

I read that as: she glanced at the port and wasn't interested. Then gave it a second glance to see if there was even a remote possibility of interest. How did you read it?

the way she meant it....all snobby like.

Sep 09 13 05:22 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
AlexaRose
Posts: 29
Spokane, Washington, US


^ sad Not the way I meant it, I'm sorry it came off as snobby. (Albeit, I had hoped that asking for advice on how NOT to sound snobby would have averted that kind of problem...)
Sep 09 13 06:10 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Bill Tracy Photography
Posts: 2,288
Montague, New Jersey, US


Just say  "I'm not interested, but thanks for the offer."

Any reply is better than no reply.
Sep 09 13 06:11 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
GM Photography
Posts: 6,058
Olympia, Washington, US


Why are people so afraid to say "no thank you."?
Sep 09 13 08:35 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
kevin bellanger
Posts: 465
Albany, New York, US


AlexaRose wrote:
^ sad Not the way I meant it, I'm sorry it came off as snobby. (Albeit, I had hoped that asking for advice on how NOT to sound snobby would have averted that kind of problem...)

my apologies then. In my opinion, at least answer your e-mails its professional. keep in mind that the photographer has spent some time looking over your port, he likes what and it may be a good opportunity for you to make some money get exposure. that's why you are here right? now if you do not like his port or decide for what ever reason not to work with said photographer a simple ''I am very busy now'' or what ever .

Sep 09 13 08:57 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
LC Photography
Posts: 62
Hong Kong, Hong Kong, China


In MM, most models do not respond.  In a real life, this is inpolite,  but over here, it is becoming the standard answer for a "no".  In the beginning, I did not like.  Now, I am used to it and I prefer it that way.  A few girls actually replied and I wrote back.... she wrote back again.... and i had to reply again..... after a few replies, I finally realized that she was probably not interested, but did not know how to say "no".  It was probably more frustrating that way.  So you can just ignore.
Sep 09 13 09:04 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Fotografica Gregor
Posts: 4,071
Alexandria, Virginia, US


many models find that "no reply" is the best reply -  many photographers get all butthurt and lash out when rejected, others try to manipulate or apply pressure or generally whine.  You can save yourself a lot of grief by using the no-response strategy....

but if you have to say no and want to be polite about it, there is always "no, thank you..."
Sep 09 13 09:12 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
NicoleNudes
Posts: 3,814
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


"Hi ______,

Thank you for the message, however I am not interested.

Have a great day!"

Easy, simple, to the point and spares some feelings.
Sep 09 13 10:30 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
NicoleNudes
Posts: 3,814
Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Bill Tracy Photography wrote:
Just say  "I'm not interested, but thanks for the offer."

Any reply is better than no reply.

Or this.

I find if you try and give a reason why you don't want to work with someone they're more likely to message you back butthurt that you don't think their work is as awesome as they think it is and try and convince you otherwise.

Sep 09 13 10:37 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Roxy Naughton
Posts: 29
Richmond, Virginia, US


Honesty is the best policy and sometimes they need an example of what you call art.  I'm the same way. I will do nude, but it's only in an artistic manner. Not sexual content.
Sep 09 13 10:42 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
NYMPH
Posts: 618
Oakland, California, US


Looknsee Photography wrote:
2)  If it''s a proposal for paid work, I think you should say "yes" even if the guy is not "up to your standards".  After all, you are being hired to help the guy out, and as a paid model, you aren't getting images for your portfolio.  Caveat #1:  you certainly are entitled to your posing limits -- for example, if your limit is "artistic nudes" and the photographer has "erotic nudes" in his portfolio, you should mention what your limits are, and if he is willing to work within your limits, go ahead & consider the offer.  Caveat #2:  If you are getting tons of offers & your available appointment slots are filled, it's okay to raise your rates.

Whoa there. Every model is allowed to turned down paid work. It can be bad for a model's image if she shoots really bad pictures. Sometimes the pay is also not worth the risk to your reputation. OP has few pictures in her port, so I can't make any broad sweeping assumptions about her goals or priorities. But any model is welcome to decline a shoot with Joe Schmo, master of unflattering and compromising shots who is offering $20 bucks for gas money (hyperbole), regardless of the nudity levels involved. Regardless of supply and demand, rates and marketability, any model can turn down a shoot for any number of reasons. Reference Idiivil's thread (yes, it's in regard to trade, but if the pay does not outweigh the cons, it can still apply to paid work). Yes, the majority of paid modeling work is with photographers who are looking to improve their ports, who might not be 'up to standard' but models are not obligated to sell their time to anyone willing to make an offer.

As for the original question. Like many here have said, short and sweet can be the best method. I have a tendency to over verbalize the point, which can cause more harm than help. When someone attempts to explain to me why I should shoot with them, I have no problem countering with why I won't. I find that being direct and clear is always helpful. Sometimes I catch myself wanting to cushion the blow, or leave a window open. In the long run, this doesn't help anyone and might lead to more hurt and confusion that will just put more tangles in everyone's hair.

Hope that helps!

Sep 09 13 10:48 pm  Link  Quote 
Model
Kitty LaRose
Posts: 12,714
Las Vegas, Nevada, US


I used to write out lengthy responses as to how flattered I was but said photographer's style wasn't what I was looking for et al ... now I either say "I'm unavailable" or "No, thank you" as I grew tired of hearing how pretentious I was being for turning down a CD of images I'd never use anyways. smile
Sep 09 13 11:01 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Know Idea
Posts: 2,931
San Diego, California, US


I'll never understand this . . .

Just spit it out. Don't make it personal and make it more about YOU and NOT them or their work.

"Thanks but I'm looking for a different sort of look at the moment."
(or words to that affect.)
Sep 09 13 11:06 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
ontherocks
Posts: 22,320
Salem, Oregon, US


i think in some cases the butthurt photographer lashes back at them. after a few of those i imagine they tire of playing that game.

GM Photography wrote:
Why are people so afraid to say "no thank you."?

Sep 09 13 11:09 pm  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kevin Connery
Posts: 16,781
El Segundo, California, US


kevin bellanger wrote:

Toto Photo wrote:
How did you read it?

the way she meant it....all snobby like.

Interesting. I read it the way she wrote it, assuming she meant what she wrote. Projecting is too much work, and rarely gives me a more useful interpretation, so I try to avoid it.

Sep 10 13 02:16 am  Link  Quote 
Photographer
Kevin Connery
Posts: 16,781
El Segundo, California, US


AlexaRose wrote:
@Kevin-to find photographers who want to do the same type of work I do? Sometimes photographers envision you doing something you simply do not care to do.

Falls into the 'don't want to be associated' category, I guess. Others have posted good options, but anything along the lines of 'not the kind of images I need' is fine. Or just plain "No, thank you" without an explanation, but that will almost certainly get a follow-up question about why, so save a round by doing it up front. (At least that's been my experience, from models contacting me; whenever I said no and didn't give some explanation, I invariably got a "Why?" by return post.)

Sep 10 13 02:19 am  Link  Quote 
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