Photographer
David Stone Imaging
Posts: 1032
Seattle, Washington, US
Loki Studio wrote:
You the Photographer are completely responsible for the final results. If there is a factor critical to the success of the shoot, then you have to make sure it happens-provide a makeup artist or go buy the product when needed. Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
x10 ! I don't have a problem accepting responsibility. I've already stated I need to be more specific about makeup requirements, and make sure they are covered before the shoot. And shame on me for accepting silence as affirmation that the model had the makeup covered. I was relying on my upbringing where there was such a thing as "lying by ommission."
I shoot on location and have a special bag where I carry all sorts of contingency items with me...jewelry, tissue, common medications, feminine products, hair brush, hair ties and bobby pins, even extra water and packaged trail mix and beef jerky. Adding makeup is not that big of a deal. I just need to get educated on it.
While conceptually a MUA would be nice, I live in the real world. This last location shoot was 75 miles outside of Seattle....and while conceptually there is some MUA just anxiously waiting to spend all day on my shoot for TF, in reality I don't think they exist...at least not for the serious hobbiest. And on short notice...on a weekend. The shoot date had continually slid over a two-month period...and was finally fixed a day ahead.
Model
D A N I
Posts: 4627
Little Rock, Arkansas, US
David Stone Imaging wrote:
Loki Studio wrote:
You the Photographer are completely responsible for the final results. If there is a factor critical to the success of the shoot, then you have to make sure it happens-provide a makeup artist or go buy the product when needed. I don't have a problem accepting responsibility. I've already stated I need to be more specific about makeup requirements, and make sure they are covered before the shoot. And shame on me for accepting silence as affirmation that the model had the makeup covered. I was relying on my upbringing where there was such a thing as "lying by ommission."
I shoot on location and have a special bag where I carry all sorts of contingency items with me...jewelry, tissue, common medications, feminine products, hair brush, hair ties and bobby pins, even extra water and packaged trail mix and beef jerky. Adding makeup is not that big of a deal. I just need to get educated on it.
While conceptually a MUA would be nice, I live in the real world. This last location shoot was 75 miles outside of Seattle....and while conceptually there is some MUA just anxiously waiting to spend all day on my shoot for TF, in reality I don't think they exist...at least not for the serious hobbiest. And on short notice...on a weekend. The shoot date had continually slid over a two-month period...and was finally fixed a day ahead. You'll never know unless you try.
I had a photographer pull a MUA out his ass last minute. He called around to a few buddies and eventually the MUA Godmother magically appeared.
You never know when someone might be sitting at home on a weekend doing nothing and would rather spend it doing something semi-entertaining.
Making up excuses will get you no where
Model
Isis22
Posts: 3557
Muncie, Indiana, US
I use one blush for everything and it's certainly not "reddish". I wear what looks good on me, not what matches my lipstick. I used to sell high end cosmetics and that is not something very many women buy or even know exists. It looks like absolute shit on almost everyone. I would recommend you do your homework on what shade you are asking for and if it's is a deal breaker it needs to be stated as such. Maybe the model didn't have the money for it? You would be surprised how poor many models are.
BTW, I did not wear makeup in middle school and my middle school aged daughter doesn't wear blush unless it's Halloween and the costume calls for it.
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 30130
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
David Stone Imaging wrote:
I don't have a problem accepting responsibility. I've already stated I need to be more specific about makeup requirements, and make sure they are covered before the shoot. And shame on me for accepting silence as affirmation that the model had the makeup covered. I was relying on my upbringing where there was such a thing as "lying by ommission."[/qout
While conceptually a MUA would be nice, I live in the real world. This last location shoot was 75 miles outside of Seattle....and while conceptually there is some MUA just anxiously waiting to spend all day on my shoot for TF, in reality I don't think they exist...at least not for the serious hobbiest. And on short notice...on a weekend. The shoot date had continually slid over a two-month period...and was finally fixed a day ahead. ( hint ) advanced students from makeup schools generally need to build up their portfolios
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 30130
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
KungPaoChic wrote:
Lighten up Garry it's obviously a joke. Some of us do not find any humor in jokes about abusing women
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 30130
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
Garry k wrote:
Some of us do not find any humor in jokes about abusing women As she said: "It was obviously a joke!"
Photographer
DougBPhoto
Posts: 39248
Portland, Oregon, US
Dean Johnson Photo wrote:
A couple of well-placed slaps would have put some color in her cheeks. 
Seriously though, it's easy enough to invest in some basic make-up and have it available for these situations. 
I have to agree, if one is not willing to hire a MUA, then it would make sense to have some basic make-up that is suitable for photography, because many models, especially those who do NOT have a great deal of experience doing makeup for photography, can end up being a crap-shoot.
For anyone upset at your joke, you did not say nor imply that it was done without permission... nor even which cheeks you were slapping.
Photographer
Bare Essential Photos
Posts: 3605
Upland, California, US
David Stone Imaging wrote:
When a model asks "what should I bring" I give them a list, and on that list for an outdoor shoot is reddish blush and reddish lipstick. This is mainly because we have a lot of pale skin in my area, and the makeup adds contrast and definition.
I just had a shoot where I had previously seen her non-makeup photos...had a flat, pale, face. I emphasized the makeup and why I needed it. She didn't show up with the blush, offered no reason for not having it other than she could pinch her cheeks, it was too far away to go buy, and now I'm stuck in photoshop trying to fake what should have been there in the first place.
This was a negotiated paid shoot. I believe this should allow me to tell a model, within reason, how I want her to look? And I take silence on a list of requirements as consent. I went ahead with the shoot knowing it likely wouldn't turn out...and I also paid her as agreed. So here I am bogged down in Photoshop wishing I had called the shoot.
So...the question is...would I have been a jerk to call the shoot on an issue such as failure to bring the makeup requested? It's your shoot, it's your call.
Model
Jen B
Posts: 4474
Phoenix, Arizona, US
A-M-P wrote:
![https://news.softpedia.com/images/news2/Eva-Longoria-s-Makeup-Mishap-2.jpg]() Oh boy!
I'll bet that junk is also what I ruined shots by using! I threw it away because I didn't even want to use it for real life too!! Argh.
 !
JenB
Model
Jen B
Posts: 4474
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Jerry Nemeth wrote:
As she said: "It was obviously a joke!" Nonsense
edit to clean up my poorly worded post.
Model
Jen B
Posts: 4474
Phoenix, Arizona, US
MB JenB wrote:
Bullcrap, cut Garry K some slack.
Anyone finding offense in a joke about slapping women should at the very least be acknowledged as being in the right.
Slapping a woman joke, is not funny, making a joke about slapping for some color can be understood as a joke so, still stop ripping on Garry K for pointing out the obvious.
Not just to you Jerry but the other posters too.
edit:
Note to self on a couple people who think ridiculing someone who found this joke crossing boundaries was okay rather than recognizing that their point had as much validity as those who thought it was funny. Let me clean this up. 
Bullcrap. Give Garry K some slack for pointing out the obvious.
It may have been meant in humor but it also crossed a boundary into physical violence on woman as acceptable. This isn't a slapstick movie here.
Not funny.
JenB
Photographer
Edward Lewis USN
Posts: 114
Madeira Beach, Florida, US
Nico Simon Princely wrote:
I had this same experience before. I also shot and did the work in post. I should not have. And to make things worse the model turned out to be a hassle to deal with. Not following directions is the first clue that you SHOULD cancel the shoot. Agree Completely...
Had the same EXACT thing happen 2 weeks ago...Model didn't look like her pictures taken 5 years ago, but recently posted. Tried to do my best with what I had to work with, and then the model complained and complained...
My first clue should have been she didn't follow the directions I gave her before the shoot...
Photographer
Edward Lewis USN
Posts: 114
Madeira Beach, Florida, US
Rick OBanion Photo wrote:
As soon as models start bring extra lenses in case I forget mine, I'll bring makeup. Absolutely X 10...!!!!
Photographer
Garry k
Posts: 30130
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
MB JenB wrote:
Let me clean this up.
Bullcrap. Give Garry K some slack for pointing out the obvious.
It may have been meant in humor but it also crossed a boundary into physical violence on woman as acceptable. This isn't a slapstick movie here.
Not funny.
JenB And from a Mod no less
Perhaps even a Mod who participated in the recent decision to ban a high profile retoucher
from the forums because she reacted harshly to those who trivialized and mocked domestic abuse issues
Of course said Mod could see it to do the right thing and remove his "joke"from this thread and I will remove all of my subsequent responses to that "joke "
Model
Figuremodel001
Posts: 342
Chicago, Illinois, US
Herman Surkis wrote:
No. This thread can be over now.
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
Garry k wrote:
And from a Mod no less
Perhaps even a Mod who participated in the recent decision to ban a high profile retoucher
from the forums because she reacted harshly to those who trivialized and mocked domestic abuse issues
Of course said Mod could see it to do the right thing and remove his "joke"from this thread and I will remove all of my subsequent responses to that "joke " Are you the PC censor?
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
Figuremodel001 wrote:
This thread can be over now. +1
Photographer
DGI Concepts
Posts: 98
New York, New York, US
Despite INSANELY detailed emails on what is expected I still have models show up without what was requested.
"Reading is fundamental" as they say.
Model
D A N I
Posts: 4627
Little Rock, Arkansas, US
DougBPhoto wrote:
I have to agree, if one is not willing to hire a MUA, then it would make sense to have some basic make-up that is suitable for photography, because many models, especially those who do NOT have a great deal of experience doing makeup for photography, can end up being a crap-shoot.
For anyone upset at your joke, you did not say nor imply that it was done without permission... nor even which cheeks you were slapping. It's not the joke they're upset about, it's the thought that anyone would ever want to slap a delicate female. The nerve!
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
Danielle Reid wrote:
It's not the joke they're upset about, it's the thought that anyone would ever want to slap a delicate female. The nerve! You're right! 
Model
Jen B
Posts: 4474
Phoenix, Arizona, US
Jerry Nemeth wrote:
-quote=Danielle Reid-
It's not the joke they're upset about, it's the thought that anyone would ever want to slap a delicate female. The nerve!-quote-
You're right! Being female does not equate being delicate or weak.
Done.
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
MB JenB wrote:
Being female does not equate being delicate or weak.
Done. She is joking!
Model
D A N I
Posts: 4627
Little Rock, Arkansas, US
MB JenB wrote:
Being female does not equate being delicate or weak.
Done. You proved my point
Photographer
Mark C Smith
Posts: 1073
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
You were paying the model an agreed upon amount to be at an agreed upon place at an agreed upon time with the agreed upon preparations in place.
She failed on one of those points so you had every right to cancel the shoot and not pay her a dime. It may not have been the best plan of attack but that doesn't mean you would have been wrong in doing so.
Photographer
KMP
Posts: 4834
Houston, Texas, US
Nope.. you sound like you were clear in your directives and they didn't deliver.
Photographer
Looknsee Photography
Posts: 26342
Portland, Oregon, US
Would I have been a jerk to call the shoot?
I'm replying to the OP.
I might be contrary to popular opinion, but I think that yes, you would have been a jerk (the OP's words). My thinking...
... My mom will celebrate her 92nd birthday is two days -- she's still very sharp mentally, but she is getting weak. Her mantra nowadays: "Every day, we do the best we can with what we got".
... One of the things that appeals to me about photography is all the problem solving it takes.
So, you have a model without makeup -- do the best you can with the model you have. If makeup was so important to you, don't let a young model defeat you so easily -- have a MUA or have an emergency makeup kit available; have a "go-to" model available (a local model who might be able to fill in on a moment's notice). Or simply photograph something else with that model.
If the sitting was important to you, be selective & work with a more reliable model.
But paraphrasing Mom: do the best you can with what you got. Don't be easily defeated.
Model
Barbarina Bathory
Posts: 2
Herentals, Antwerp, Belgium
absolutely not. When I shoot, I always show up with my make up bag where I have everything and even more to be ready to face "emergencies".
I mean, it's our job to think about these stuff.
Model
Angelina Henstra
Posts: 248
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
No, I don't think you would have been a jerk, you're paying for a service.
I have a suggestion though, go to a dollar store or wait for a sale at a drugstore and buy a bunch of blushes, lipsticks, shadows and such for the inevitable....
You don't have to edit these images, you're choosing to and if it's causing you grief
why do it? Sounds like these images will just conjure up bad memories and feelings every time you look at them anyway. Move forward, there's only 24 hours in a day and if you dwell on the last shoot it makes it pretty difficult to prepare for the next one.
Photographer
PhotoNoPhoto
Posts: 85
Brasília, Distrito Federal, Brazil
I am looking into picking up some make up as well and practicing. My sister-in-law is a MUA and I have talked with her about picking up a few basic techniques to save me in a pinch.
On another note, if you as a model can do your own make up I would think that it would greatly improve your marketability. If a model can do her own H&MU that saves me from finding or paying a MUA. Don't get me wrong, I usually have great shoots when a MUA is involved but it is an extra work that when I am traveling I just don't have the time to set up. Also MUA are certainly necessary for painting, dramatic and exotic looks and high fashion style shoots.
I am just surprised that someone who is seriously interested in getting into fashion modeling can't figure out how lipstick and eyeliner work. Several models have said they cant do anything. Period.
As a photographer, I am always practicing and testing lighting before the model arrives for the shoot so I know what things are going to look like. I do lots of prep work before a shoot thinking about posing and walking around the space to find flattering angels and locations I want to shoot. Practicing a little with make up I feel would be a similar comparison. Its prework. I feel like a basic and simple understanding of makeup would be beneficial for any model.
Model
JessieLeigh
Posts: 2109
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
ADKC Photography wrote:
I am just surprised that someone who is seriously interested in getting into fashion modeling can't figure out how lipstick and eyeliner work. Several models have said they cant do anything. Period.
As a photographer, I am always practicing and testing lighting before the model arrives for the shoot so I know what things are going to look like. I do lots of prep work before a shoot thinking about posing and walking around the space to find flattering angels and locations I want to shoot. Practicing a little with make up I feel would be a similar comparison. Its prework. I feel like a basic and simple understanding of makeup would be beneficial for any model. You are a photographer. It's perfectly logical for you to practice the things that go hand in hand with your photography.
A model is a model. Models pose. The "prework" for a model is not practicing contouring or perfecting winged liner. It's learning how to pose and express emotion via expression.
You are correct, basic understanding of makeup would be beneficial for a model. Beneficial and necessary are not the same though.
Photographer
nudeXposed
Posts: 1154
Shanghai, Shanghai, China
to call the shoot what? Shirley?
Model
J O A N N E
Posts: 2362
Derby, England, United Kingdom
If I turn up at work without the correct attire, my hair a mess, my shoes unpolished I get sent home without pay. A paid modelling gig should have the same approach. Your boss (Photograhper that is paying you) asks you to arrived (Within reason and consent) with certain items or certain looks then you do it.
So no, you wouldn't of been a jerk to send her home because she couldn't follow your instructions for a specific look.
Photographer
F O R B E S
Posts: 576
New York, New York, US
Nope. I call shoots all the time. Even though I don't pay models, I still believe that the photographer should be in control of the shoot because he's the one with the creative vision and he's the one who is responsible for how the photos come out. So yea, you should of definitely called the shoot, especially if you were paying her. A lot of times, these models think because they're "pretty", they can dance around everything and get away with it. Gotta be more aggressive with these girls and be very clear with what you want. Good luck to you bro!
Photographer
Star
Posts: 17966
Los Angeles, California, US
use this example of what not to do when contacting new people. In the pre-shoot emails lists the rate they will be paid, and what that rate entails- you could say you will pay
$150-
for a full 2 hour shoot
As the model you are expected to be on time and ready to shot at 3pm with a release time of 5pm. I expect you to be ready to shoot with both a red lipstick and a pink blush, as well as I expect you to have the ability to refresh your make-up as needed.
I reserve the right to cancel the shoot should you come unprepared or late to the shoot. Should I choose to not cancel the shoot you accept that the rate per hour is $50, with a $50 bonus for being on time and prepared to shoot. I will round up to the nearest 5 minutes on the rate for late starts, and will not furnish any photos to late models.
Look it sounds harsh, but wouldn't you rather scare off a few models rather than deal with the bad ones?
Photographer
ChadAlan
Posts: 4254
Los Angeles, California, US
David Stone Imaging wrote:
When a model asks "what should I bring" I give them a list, and on that list for an outdoor shoot is reddish blush and reddish lipstick. This is mainly because we have a lot of pale skin in my area, and the makeup adds contrast and definition.
I just had a shoot where I had previously seen her non-makeup photos...had a flat, pale, face. I emphasized the makeup and why I needed it. She didn't show up with the blush, offered no reason for not having it other than she could pinch her cheeks, it was too far away to go buy, and now I'm stuck in photoshop trying to fake what should have been there in the first place.
This was a negotiated paid shoot. I believe this should allow me to tell a model, within reason, how I want her to look? And I take silence on a list of requirements as consent. I went ahead with the shoot knowing it likely wouldn't turn out...and I also paid her as agreed. So here I am bogged down in Photoshop wishing I had called the shoot.
So...the question is...would I have been a jerk to call the shoot on an issue such as failure to bring the makeup requested? If you emphasized your need for a certain makeup look, and the model forgot, or was unable to achieve what you were looking for, then I guess calling the shoot would have been ok.
You could have asked to negotiate a reduced rate of pay (before the shoot started), to cover the cost of retouching.
For me, I would have done the shoot and gotten the desired results in PS.
Photographer
ChadAlan
Posts: 4254
Los Angeles, California, US
Star wrote:
use this example of what not to do when contacting new people. In the pre-shoot emails lists the rate they will be paid, and what that rate entails- you could say you will pay
$150-
for a full 2 hour shoot
As the model you are expected to be on time and ready to shot at 3pm with a release time of 5pm. I expect you to be ready to shoot with both a red lipstick and a pink blush, as well as I expect you to have the ability to refresh your make-up as needed.
I reserve the right to cancel the shoot should you come unprepared or late to the shoot. Should I choose to not cancel the shoot you accept that the rate per hour is $50, with a $50 bonus for being on time and prepared to shoot. I will round up to the nearest 5 minutes on the rate for late starts, and will not furnish any photos to late models.
Look it sounds harsh, but wouldn't you rather scare off a few models rather than deal with the bad ones? If it's an important detail to a photographer or project, then spelling it out is probably best.
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