Doug Swinskey wrote:
"bottom feeders? do you still not know the resume of the folks you were arguing with?

in much the same way people can pretend to be something they are not on the internet...important people, industry insiders, people with vast experience and knowledge of the modeling industry can hide in thier anonymity on the web..

just like they do here on model mayhem.

you chose to argue with them about the industry..i kept rooting for you to be quiet..stop the bleeding..but you kept on going...it appeared others liked watching the train wreck...

as much as you think you know..you have plenty to learn about the modeling industry....and it appears you didnt like you last lesson.

Well if defamation and libel are part of your lesson .. then perhaps I should drop that dime ....

God Bless,
Outlaw

Doug Swinskey wrote:
"bottom feeders? do you still not know the resume of the folks you were arguing with?

in much the same way people can pretend to be something they are not on the internet...important people, industry insiders, people with vast experience and knowledge of the modeling industry can hide in thier anonymity on the web..

just like they do here on model mayhem.

you chose to argue with them about the industry..i kept rooting for you to be quiet..stop the bleeding..but you kept on going...it appeared others liked watching the train wreck...

as much as you think you know..you have plenty to learn about the modeling industry....and it appears you didnt like you last lesson.

Outlaw Photography wrote:
Well if defamation and libel are part of your lesson .. then perhaps I should drop that dime ....

God Bless,
Outlaw

i am going to assume you think you know something about defamation. if so you would understand that these charges are at best a stretch...

now when you suggested a member here encouraged illegal pratices..that was a much clearer case...

or does it not count when you do it?

Doug Swinskey wrote:
i am going to assume you think you know something about defamation. if so you would understand that these charges are at best a stretch...

now when you suggested a member here encouraged illegal pratices..that was a much clearer case...

or does it not count when you do it?

At no time have I ever made any disparaging comments about anyone on MM.  I have simply used metaphors to show that their ways are wrong ... and then, only in self defense ....

Outlaw Photography wrote:
The awards are paper. I have pictured photographs of the trophy I could have bought, as it bears my name. The trophies are offered to comemorate the award.  The trophies are not the award.  I paid nothing. When you start in Photography, you start as a novice, Amateur, then go pro. It is my amateur work that propelled me to professional.  I do photography full time, under the strictest of business laws and conventions.

the awards / trophies are provided upon registration to the event.  "registration is easy" the site touts, and the trophy gracing the mantels of attendees has nothing to do with the actual craft of photography.

Outlaw Photography wrote:
Also, I talked of my experience in business, before retiring from the daily operations of a corporation to pursue Photography, in a thread where I was libeled and defamed.

you have confused confirmation with being defamed.  you failed to provide any proof of your claims when asked. and still you make claims of greatness without any substantiation of proof.

Outlaw Photography wrote:
80% to 90% of photography and modeling consists of "BUSINESS FUNCTIONS".  10% to 20% is actually shooting.

you also make claims about an industry that you clearly know nothing about

Outlaw Photography wrote:
Having published magazines, written and produced TV commercials, done research that went to the White House, consulted to start up companies nationwide, dealt with captian's of industry and government, and made millions for investors, it clearly shows that making businesses succeed is certainly relevant to helping a model's business, or a photographers business succeed.

name your claims.  what magazines.  what commercials and what research?  please provide verifiable sources that substantiate such claims.

Outlaw Photography wrote:
Now what you should think about are those in a position to help you, those on top, don't come out here to help you. This has been a prime example.  You choose to believe big mouthed people who have in fact now put everyones butt on the line.  If  you continue to follow the ignorance of these bottom feeders, you will not have a career.

people choose to believe people with credibility.  those that simply try to blow smoke up the membership ass without credibility are the real bottom feeders looking for a way to rise up.

Outlaw Photography wrote:
See, all posts here go to Google, and the posts which contained libel, now make MM and Google Liable for printing libel. Having made millions in my other career, it would be easy to assume dropping a dime on an attorney would bring millions into this career.

please re-post what you felt was libel.  you won't find it. 

Outlaw Photography wrote:
I thought this lesson needed to be posted so MM'ers would know to watch their backs ... even out here, and even from those they think they can trust out here in MM.

the only lesson for those to learn is to don't listen to bullshit.

--face reality

FaceReality wrote:

the awards / trophies are provided upon registration to the event.  "registration is easy" the site touts, and the trophy gracing the mantels of attendees has nothing to do with the actual craft of photography.

--face reality

The awards come in postal mail. They are paper certificates for Outstanding Achievement in Photography. They come months before they even announce the convention.

Again, the bs seems to be on your end.  No facts, just your opinion of something you have no personal knowledge of ...

God Bless
Outlaw

Outlaw Photography wrote:
I have pictured photographs of the trophy I could have bought, as it bears my name.

Never heard of this company but, I am surprised that they would make you buy your winning trophy.

Holden wrote:
Was this the association that gave you your "award"?

http://photoawards.com/

Yes, exactly. What Holden linked to is the site for the true International Photography Awards, the Lucies. These shouldn't be confused

MurphyMurphy Studios wrote:

Never heard of this company but, I am surprised that they would make you buy your winning trophy.

You don't win the trophy ... you win the award.  The trophy is a service for those who want something for their bookshelf to show to others.  I just framed the paper award.

God Bless,
Outlaw

Holden wrote:
Was this the association that gave you your "award"?

http://photoawards.com/

no ..... It was not.  I have not heard of that one before ...

I have the link in the first post.

God Bless,
Outlaw

Outlaw Photography wrote:
See, all posts here go to Google, and the posts which contained libel, now make MM and Google Liable for printing libel. Having made millions in my other career, it would be easy to assume dropping a dime on an attorney would bring millions into this career.

Please, drop that dime. Your attorney will then explain to you that section 230 of the CDA means that Model Mayhem is quite immune to any claim of libel you may wish to levy.

This, making passing note that I've not yet seen any libel, all claims and statements being factual.

Once... just once, I'd like to see some bigmouth like you actually go to the trouble of paying for a lawyer's time to get an education.

Holden wrote:
Was this the association that gave you your "award"?

http://photoawards.com/

Renée Jacobs wrote:
Yes, exactly. What Holden linked to is the site for the true International Photography Awards, the Lucies. These shouldn't be confused

affirmed.

Outlaw Photography wrote:
You don't win the trophy ... you win the award.  The trophy is a service for those who want something for their bookshelf to show to others.  I just framed the paper award.

the trophy you predominately display on your web site is purchased.  it has nothing to do with the craft of photography.

from their web site (with a new trophy this year):
Each attending photographer will receive a personalized Outstanding Achievement in Photography Crystal Award Trophy

it wouldn't matter if jose my gardener attended having never picked up a camera before in his life, he would still receive the trophy by simply paying the registration fee.

some award, outlaw.  some award indeed.

--face reality

FaceReality wrote:
the trophy you predominately display on your web site is purchased.  it has nothing to do with the craft of photography.

from their web site (with a new trophy this year):
Each attending photographer will receive a personalized Outstanding Achievement in Photography Crystal Award Trophy

some award, outlaw.  some award indeed.

--face reality

You forgot to mention that they get a medal too!

Christopher Ambler wrote:

Please, drop that dime. Your attorney will then explain to you that section 230 of the CDA means that Model Mayhem is quite immune to any claim of libel you may wish to levy.

This, making passing note that I've not yet seen any libel, all claims and statements being factual.

Once... just once, I'd like to see some bigmouth like you actually go to the trouble of paying for a lawyer's time to get an education.

Are you aware of "the exclusive rights to your writings" .. it is a clause in the Constitution.  Google grabbing these posts, violates that as the MM agreement does not authorize the publication rights to my writings.

Think about it ...

God Bless,
Outlaw

Leo C wrote:
I just like to say that the ISP is so classy that it use picture.com as the host for their website. Wow!!!

When you start as an Amateur, the goal is to get noticed.  Picture.com does that if your work is good enough. It is a wise business/marketing move.

ISP tries to help those with talent with a start in the industry.

Have you ever heard of holding companies?  Or sister corporations?  Check into them .. and check that link for all the famous photographers that were at the convention, trying to help amateurs get started on a career.

God Bless,
Outlaw

Outlaw Photography wrote:
Are you aware of "the exclusive rights to your writings" .. it is a clause in the Constitution.  Google grabbing these posts, violates that as the MM agreement does not authorize the publication rights to my writings.

Think about it ...

not much to think about at all.  you simply don't know the law and how it is applied.

or, you could cite pertinent case law...that is, if you can find it!  (use google for that!)

--face reality

Outlaw Photography wrote:
Are you aware of "the exclusive rights to your writings" .. it is a clause in the Constitution.  Google grabbing these posts, violates that as the MM agreement does not authorize the publication rights to my writings.

Think about it ...

I don't need to think about it, the courts already have.

Please see CV-S-04-0413-RCJ-LRL. United States District Court (District of Nevada) and 04-CV-3918. United States District Court (Eastern District of Pennsylvania).

You, sir, really need to do a little learning before you open your mouth.

FaceReality wrote:

the trophy you predominately display on your web site is purchased.  it has nothing to do with the craft of photography.

from their web site (with a new trophy this year):
Each attending photographer will receive a personalized Outstanding Achievement in Photography Crystal Award Trophy

it wouldn't matter if jose my gardener attended having never picked up a camera before in his life, he would still receive the trophy by simply paying the registration fee.

some award, outlaw.  some award indeed.

--face reality

On more time ... try reading ... calm down and understand this .. I have written it before.

The awards are paper certificates.  You can purchase a trophy if you want to.  The trophy is a trophy, it is not the award. It is to comemorate the paper certificate award for outstanding photography.

I registered for nothing, never went to a convention, but MM 605 was a lecturer.

Simplified .. the trophy is not the award .. the certificate is.

God Bless,
Outlaw

Outlaw Photography wrote:
When you start as an Amateur, the goal is to get noticed.  Picture.com does that if your work is good enough. It is a wise business/marketing move.

ISP tries to help those with talent with a start in the industry.

Have you ever heard of holding companies?  Or sister corporations?  Check into them .. and check that link for all the famous photographers that were at the convention, trying to help amateurs get started on a career.

God Bless,
Outlaw

Well yeah, that's why they have to charge you so much & hand out those "awards" to convince you to pay it...they need the $ to pay those pros.
Not that they don't keep a sweet cut for themselves.

SLE Photography wrote:

Well yeah, that's why they have to charge you so much & hand out those "awards" to convince you to pay it...they need the $ to pay those pros.
Not that they don't keep a sweet cut for themselves.

Now  you are getting it.  People complain on line as they have no business knowledge. They get a paper award and then spend money for trophies, books, etc., thinking it will make them famous.  Reality ... it is just stupidity and greed. Why didn't these people simply say "thank you for the award" and leave it at that?

Oh, there is a stock photography program available also if you want to join, and I completely understand their business marketing plan. It is like Bill Gates .. a great marketer, but how many of us could sell products that aren't finished and become rich? *LOL*

I mean if my truck had as many bugs in it as the operating system, I would have sent it back to the manufacture a long time ago.

God Bless,
Outlaw

Outlaw Photography wrote:
Simplified .. the trophy is not the award .. the certificate is.

would you please type out the inscription on the trophy made available to anyone that pays the fee, including jose if i gave him some time off from taking care of my yard.



credibility?  yeah, right.

--face reality

Sayer Photography wrote:
Good googly moogly.

80's photography rocks. I love the 80's. Like totally awesome.

One of the largest markets out there is the Baby Boomers. They have the money .. and by demographics, they prefer the older style of photography.  It is what they grew up with, what they are familiar with. And if you want to attract them, you need to cater to their tastes.

God Bless,
Outlaw

FaceReality wrote:

would you please type out the inscription on the trophy made available to anyone that pays the fee, including jose if i gave him some time off from taking care of my yard.

credibility?  yeah, right.

--face reality

Have you ever recieved an ISP or ILP award?

Have you ever actually seen the award certificate, or received the postal mail with the award and all the offers?

Credibility?  How much credibility does it take to open an envelop, read a certificate that says you did great work?

Do you have any personal knowledge or experience with ISP or ILP?

God Bless,
Outlaw

Christopher Ambler wrote:

I don't need to think about it, the courts already have.

Please see CV-S-04-0413-RCJ-LRL. United States District Court (District of Nevada) and 04-CV-3918. United States District Court (Eastern District of Pennsylvania).

You, sir, really need to do a little learning before you open your mouth.

It was not addressed as "exclusive rights to our writings" .. don't wave cases that are not relevant to the issue.  I did not authorize Google to publish any of my work, writing or photography.  To do so is like stealing photos, publishing them and not paying the photographer or model.

God Bless,
Outlaw

Outlaw Photography wrote:
Credibility?  How much credibility does it take to open an envelop, read a certificate that says you did great work?

Not much, and also not much validity, when they send one of these to everyone who enters, and thousands who do not. You seem to ignore that fact.

Outlaw Photography wrote:
It was not addressed as "exclusive rights to our writings" .. don't wave cases that are not relevant to the issue.  I did not authorize Google to publish any of my work, writing or photography.  To do so is like stealing photos, publishing them and not paying the photographer or model.

It's very easy for you to say that the cases aren't relevant, but the fact is that they are. If they are not, please show, specifically, how that is true.

Google has been sued a number of times for copyright and trademark infringement in relation to their caching and storage and have come out on the good-side of the law every time. Indeed, they've even given concessions that they were not required to give in the light that their caching and display have been found to be covered under the doctrine of fair use in each and every case.

You, sir, simply have no idea what you're talking about. I strongly advise you to see competent legal council immediately.

Paul Brecht wrote:
Outlaw,

I'm not attacking you or your work in any way. Let me put it to you like this though...

In your example, you say about getting a "sunday school award from church". Ok, that's credible & acceptable within "your" church, but, now, let's say that you get an award from Anton Leve's Satanic Society, saying you're an outstanding sunday school teacher. How well would that be accepted in your church ???

Prolly not very well, right ???  (I'd hope not)  ...

In the same way, the outfit that awards these certificates is not credible in any way amongst photographic communities/societies. This is not a bad reflection on you as a person or a photographer, but it isn't a good one either as far as a group of peers &/or professional organizations/societies go...

Sorry, but I'd imagine that if everyone else seems wrong, you might need to look within...

Paul

Well said, Paul

Outlaw Photography wrote:
Now  you are getting it.  People complain on line as they have no business knowledge. They get a paper award and then spend money for trophies, books, etc., thinking it will make them famous.  Reality ... it is just stupidity and greed. Why didn't these people simply say "thank you for the award" and leave it at that?

Oh, there is a stock photography program available also if you want to join, and I completely understand their business marketing plan. It is like Bill Gates .. a great marketer, but how many of us could sell products that aren't finished and become rich? *LOL*

I mean if my truck had as many bugs in it as the operating system, I would have sent it back to the manufacture a long time ago.

God Bless,
Outlaw

Ok, so you admit the paper certificate you got is part of a scam designed to lure you in and spend money to pay for those pros to coach amateurs with a healthy cut for the organizers??
So if you KNOW that why would you tout that award????

Outlaw Photography wrote:
Have you ever recieved an ISP or ILP award? no.  i do not pay for trophies

Have you ever actually seen the award certificate, or received the postal mail with the award and all the offers? no, i throw junk mail away

Credibility?  How much credibility does it take to open an envelop, read a certificate that says you did great work? it doesn't take credibility to do what you asked.  it takes common sense to know that it gives appearance as a scam.

Do you have any personal knowledge or experience with ISP or ILP? yes. i read their registration web site and it confirmed the appearance of a scam