NicoleNudes wrote:

That doesn't even make any sense.

Why are they staying in the first place? Because they don't want to hurt the other persons feelings?
They are going to hurt them even worse if the other person finds out the only reason they've been with them so long is because they were scared of hurting them if they left.

(I hope that made sense)

A commitment is a commitment.  It's a promise.  I hate breaking promises, so leaving took a huge amount of thought and consideration and effort.  Breaking a promise is anathema, to me (I don't know about anyone else).  If you break a promise, you've failed on some level, whether you're worried about hurting someone (now, or later) or not.

modeled wrote:

Right.  Before God and the state, "I do" means "I do."

Some people are conservative when it comes to family values, others are more liberal.

Not only that. They say "for rich or for poor, in health and in sickness".

Russian Katarina wrote:

If they are serious about their religion, marriage is a promise made not just to your partner but before God - so you don't just break your promise to your partner, you walk away from God.

You beat me to it.

kickfight wrote:

modeled wrote:
Commitment is the most powerful thing a human can do.

+ another million (25+ year relationship).

I'll toss in another million

Digital Photo PLUS wrote:

Not only that. They say "for rich or for poor, in health and in sickness".

Which was a given I thought.

Damianne wrote:

Sure, but if you're unhappy with the person you're with, that's usually pretty permanent. You can be happy with life in general, sure, but you would definitely be much happier and fulfilled with someone you wanted to be with.

If you married that person, chances are that means you were happy with that person at the time....

So unless there are specific, serious and major reasons for the unhappiness (like cheating, abuse, you know, if the other party did things to violate the vows made) why wouldn't the unhappiness be viewed as just as temporary as the happiness that prompted the marriage to begin with?

JessieLeigh wrote:

If you married that person, chances are that means you were happy with that person at the time....

So unless there are specific, serious and major reasons for the unhappiness (like cheating, abuse, you know, if the other party did things to violate the vows made) why wouldn't the unhappiness be viewed as just as temporary as the happiness that prompted the marriage to begin with?

Because if you were able to put the work in to grow back together, that's what you would want to do.

The desire to stick it out is the indicator that you can. If you don't want to, no amount of convincing yourself it'll probably work out or it's the right thing to do is going to change the fact that you don't want to be in the relationship.

I'm not saying run because you're disgruntled, I'm saying I don't understand why people stick around when that's not what they want to do, because that in of itself indicates that the relationship is over.

Damianne wrote:
Like, what?
This is what I am curious about and want answers to.

If someone wants to give up quickly, doesn't that indicate they're not interested enough in the relationship to make it work regardless?
And what is too quickly? Based on what? Based on whom?
As a child of divorced parents who really should have never been together in the first place (I never had those fantasies of my parents getting back together), my childhood was fine and I really think it's more harmful to the children to teach them weird lessons about relationships by staying together even if you want to leave one another, just for the children.

What if you're married, and that's your seriousness? Why does deciding to want to leave that need to be more of a decision than when you're with someone that you're fully committed to emotionally but haven't gotten married to?

my parents are also divorced, by the way...

I think the point where someone gets out is very personal. I respect the way you feel about it, I just happen to feel a bit different, and I hope to be with a partner who feels the same way (but there's really no way of knowing until you get to a critical point). I think in the end, that is the most important thing in order not to get hurt by someone leaving: that you're on the same page.

I do think that the decision to be with someone (doesn't have to be married, but to some people it is!) is also a very important decision that should not be taken lightly, but that's another thing different people disagree on .

I got my notion mostly from talking to old people... Like my grandparents. They were married for nearly 60 yeas, had 6 children together, a worldwar that seperated them for 4 years, and ran a farm together. Hard life. On their 50th wedding anniversary, I asked my grandmother how many "bad years" she had out of those 50, if she had to put them all together. She said "10, maybe 12-13, but we have a good marriage and I wouldn't have done it any other way". that made sense to me (again, just me, might be totally stupid for someone else), even if it means that basically one in 5 days, you're thinking about leaving.

and personally, I don't like walking away from a relationship unless I know I have given it my all to make it work. I don't want to think "what if...". I want to know that I tried, and it didn't work. and that's the point that I'll walk out. I also believe in marriage quite strongly, and don't intend to go into marriage thinking "oh well, if it doesn't work out I can still get divorced". I'd rather spend years looking for a man that I think would be suitable to marry, and build a strong foundation and then marry, and spend the rest of my life working hard at keeping the marriage healthy. But a lot will have to happen for me to just walk out on a relationship that I put a lot of thought getting into in the first place.

Again, that is just me.

Damianne wrote:
I'm saying I don't understand why people stick around when that's not what they want to do, because that in of itself indicates that the relationship is over.

Some people do get married for the wrong reasons, absolutely.

My best friends grandmother passed away last week.  She was married to his grandfather for 71 years. 

California Girls Skate wrote:

Human beings are whole creatures. We are not compartmentalized robots. A failure or character weakness in one aspect of a personality DOES indicate a failing in others. That idea persists because it's an undeniable truth.

Lie to your spouse? You'll lie to others.

Treat your kids like crap? You'll treat others like crap.

Break the vows of your relationship? You'll break other vows.

There are legitimate reasons to leave a relationship. When the relationship is abusive or violent or the other person is disloyal or unfaithful, there is no shame in walking away from that. But these days, too many people just seem to get "bored" or say they are "unfulfilled" and they quit. I'm not sure about you, but I've never heard anyone take a vow in front of their friends and family to "love, honor and cherish... until they are tired of doing it".

Recent studies showed that Western women were happier 40 years ago
than they are today.

This is a remarkable development that should give anyone reason to pause and think, given that gender equality at home and the workplace has improved significantly over the last 40 years.

Ironically, 40 years of feminism and gender mainstreaming in the US seem to have made women unhappier - and men happier.


( Source )

Women also get unhappier the older they are - while it's the other way round for men:


Whatever you make of it, women seem to have paid a steep price for the freedoms gained.

Personally I believe the the egoistic "me first" generations that have become so prevalent since the 70ies just don't translate to happy lives and fulfilling relationships. There's a price to be paid when you put yourself first all the time. You often end up alone and lonely, with a string of broken relationships and coffers full of emotional baggage.

Anna Adrielle wrote:
my parents are also divorced, by the way...

I think the point where someone gets out is very personal. I respect the way you feel about it, I just happen to feel a bit different, and I hope to be with a partner who feels the same way (but there's really no way of knowing until you get to a critical point). I think in the end, that is the most important thing in order not to get hurt by someone leaving: that you're on the same page.

I do think that the decision to be with someone (doesn't have to be married, but to some people it is!) is also a very important decision that should not be taken lightly, but that's another thing different people disagree on .

I got my notion mostly from talking to old people... Like my grandparents. They were married for nearly 60 yeas, had 6 children together, a worldwar that seperated them for 4 years, and ran a farm together. Hard life. On their 50th wedding anniversary, I asked my grandmother how many "bad years" she had out of those 50, if she had to put them all together. She said "10, maybe 12-13, but we have a good marriage and I wouldn't have done it any other way". that made sense to me (again, just me, might be totally stupid for someone else), even if it means that basically one in 5 days, you're thinking about leaving.

and personally, I don't like walking away from a relationship unless I know I have given it my all to make it work. I don't want to think "what if...". I want to know that I tried, and it didn't work. and that's the point that I'll walk out. I also believe in marriage quite strongly, and don't intend to go into marriage thinking "oh well, if it doesn't work out I can still get divorced". I'd rather spend years looking for a man that I think would be suitable to marry, and build a strong foundation and then marry, and spend the rest of my life working hard at keeping the marriage healthy. But a lot will have to happen for me to just walk out on a relationship that I put a lot of thought getting into in the first place.

Again, that is just me.

I'm just curious about the perspective.
This is le helpful post.

Damianne wrote:
Because if you were able to put the work in to grow back together, that's what you would want to do.

It's easy to assume that, but that's not always the case. We live in a society where many people would prefer to start over instead of putting the work in.

As someone that has gone through it, the first step of putting the work in to grow back together is realizing what role you had in growing apart. And that can be very difficult for many people, it was extremely difficult for me... Many people want to pretend their spouse is the problem rather then doing any self-reflection

I'm not saying run because you're disgruntled, I'm saying I don't understand why people stick around when that's not what they want to do, because that in of itself indicates that the relationship is over.

Some choose to stick around despite their unhappiness because they remember how happy they were when things were going well, and they know that unhappiness within a relationship is not at ALL permanent like you suggested.

Russian Katarina wrote:
Personally I believe the the egoistic "me first" generations that have become so prevalent since the 70ies just don't translate to happy lives and fulfilling relationships. There's a price to be paid when you put yourself first all the time. You often end up alone and lonely, with a string of broken relationships and coffers full of emotional baggage.

seconded

JessieLeigh wrote:

Damianne wrote:
Because if you were able to put the work in to grow back together, that's what you would want to do.

It's easy to assume that, but that's not always the case. We live in a society where many people would prefer to start over instead of putting the work in.

As someone that has gone through it, the first step of putting the work in to grow back together is realizing what role you had in growing apart. And that can be very difficult for many people. Many people want to pretend their spouse is the problem rather then doing any self-reflection.


Some choose to stick around despite their unhappiness because they remember how happy they were when things were going well, and they know that unhappiness within a relationship is not at ALL permanent like you suggested.

I am not suggesting unhappiness is always permanent.
I'm suggesting that when you don't want to fix it, and you want to just leave, that's going to make the unhappiness permanent.

I just got through moving to another country with my boyfriend and both of us hating living there, for over a year. That's really stressful, it makes you hate yourself and the person you're with and just be really miserable. At no point did I think "I want to leave him", and I always wanted to fix it. Since I wanted to put the work in, and he wanted to put the work in, we got through it just fine.

I understand working through problems, I just don't understand forcing yourself to when that's not what you want to do.
If you understand the unhappiness is probably temporary, then you're already looking to a solution and you probably want to stay. I'm confused as to why staying even if that's not what you want to do is some kind of moral good and character strength, because it seems *insane* to me.

Damianne wrote:
I understand working through problems, I just don't understand forcing yourself to when that's not what you want to do.

Sometimes what you want and what's best are not the same thing.  People do change, add babies into the equation and chemicals actually change. 

The most rewarding things in life take sacrifice and commitment.  If it were easy, then it wouldn't be worth anything.

Damianne wrote:
I understand working through problems, I just don't understand forcing yourself to when that's not what you want to do.

Sometimes what you want and what's best are not the same thing.  People do change, add babies into the equation and chemicals actually change. 

The most rewarding things in life take sacrifice and commitment.  If it were easy, then it wouldn't be worth anything.

Anna Adrielle wrote:
and personally, I don't like walking away from a relationship unless I know I have given it my all to make it work. I don't want to think "what if...". I want to know that I tried, and it didn't work. and that's the point that I'll walk out. I also believe in marriage quite strongly, and don't intend to go into marriage thinking "oh well, if it doesn't work out I can still get divorced". I'd rather spend years looking for a man that I think would be suitable to marry, and build a strong foundation and then marry, and spend the rest of my life working hard at keeping the marriage healthy. But a lot will have to happen for me to just walk out on a relationship that I put a lot of thought getting into in the first place.

Again, that is just me.

You have a good head on your shoulders.

Damianne wrote:
I'm just curious about the perspective.
This is le helpful post.

glad I could contribute then .
did you mean "helpful helpful" or "omg I can't believe people can be so stupid, what is this 1952?-helpful" ?

modeled wrote:
Sometimes what you want and what's best are not the same thing. .

Sure, if you're talking about having a job or something.
If you're talking about choosing a life partner, I'm going to have to vehemently disagree.

Why would anything else be what's best?
What is the goal of "good" in that case?

Damianne wrote:

Because if you were able to put the work in to grow back together, that's what you would want to do.

The desire to stick it out is the indicator that you can. If you don't want to, no amount of convincing yourself it'll probably work out or it's the right thing to do is going to change the fact that you don't want to be in the relationship.

I'm not saying run because you're disgruntled, I'm saying I don't understand why people stick around when that's not what they want to do, because that in of itself indicates that the relationship is over.

I think if you are unhappy with you either work on it or move on most people probably don't cause they probably feel bad or whatever but I think it is actually making the situation worse by staying for the wrong reasons I def agree with you

modeled wrote:
Commitment is the most powerful thing a human can do.

Agreed.

And careful consideration before making commitments is also quite helpful.

Damianne wrote:

Sure, if you're talking about having a job or something.
If you're talking about choosing a life partner, I'm going to have to vehemently disagree.

Why would anything else be what's best?
What is the goal of "good" in that case?

I was referring to staying with your life partner, not choosing one.   In the case of choosing I suggest you be head over heals enamored by the person.

Anna Adrielle wrote:

glad I could contribute then .
did you mean "helpful helpful" or "omg I can't believe people can be so stupid-helpful" ?

helpful helpful.
I didn't want to leave it as just "I'm curious about the perspective" but I didn't have a response other then brain-chewing so I wanted to let you know I read and understood and have packed it away in my head.

Damianne wrote:
I am not suggesting unhappiness is always permanent.
I'm suggesting that when you don't want to fix it, and you want to just leave, that's going to make the unhappiness permanent...I understand working through problems, I just don't understand forcing yourself to when that's not what you want to do.... I'm confused as to why staying even if that's not what you want to do is some kind of moral good and character strength, because it seems *insane* to me.

I want...

I want...

I want...

That is the whole problem.

If the ONLY motive to leave a committed relationship is "because I want to" then that person is a self-centered toddler who only cares about themself. They don't care about loyalty. They don't care about devotion. They are only interested in their own pleasure. Their own happiness. Their own joy. Behaving like that when you're over the age of 10 is insane.

modeled wrote:

I was referring to staying with your life partner, not choosing one.   In the case of choosing I suggest you be head over heals enamored by the person.

What's the difference between choosing and staying with?

Anna Adrielle wrote:
I also believe in marriage quite strongly, and don't intend to go into marriage thinking "oh well, if it doesn't work out I can still get divorced". I'd rather spend years looking for a man that I think would be suitable to marry, and build a strong foundation and then marry, and spend the rest of my life working hard at keeping the marriage healthy.

California Girls Skate wrote:

I want...

I want...

I want...

That is the whole problem.

If the ONLY motive to leave a committed relationship is "because I want to" then that person is a self-centered toddler who only cares about themself. They don't care about loyalty. They don't care about devotion. They are only interested in their own pleasure. Their own happiness. Their own joy. Behaving like that when you're over the age of 10 is insane.

I wouldn't want someone else to be with me unless they always wanted to. Why would you want someone to stay with you out of a sense of loyalty and requirement?

What a sad thought process. Like we're knights and we must care for the maiden out of duty. Try not to have any smiles in your life choices. Ho-hum.
Oh look at the children enjoying their relationships. What fools.

Damianne wrote:

What's the difference between choosing and staying with?

One is disposable, the other isn't?

Russian Katarina wrote:

Recent studies showed that Western women were happier 40 years ago
than they are today.

This is a remarkable development that should give anyone reason to pause and think, given that gender equality at home and the workplace has improved significantly over the last 40 years.

Ironically, 40 years of feminism and gender mainstreaming in the US seem to have made women unhappier - and men happier.


( Source )

Women also get unhappier the older they are - while it's the other way round for men:


Whatever you make of it, women seem to have paid a steep price for the freedoms gained.

Personally I believe the the egoistic "me first" generations that have become so prevalent since the 70ies just don't translate to happy lives and fulfilling relationships. There's a price to be paid when you put yourself first all the time. You often end up alone and lonely, with a string of broken relationships and coffers full of emotional baggage.

Thanks for posting this (and the source).  Marcus Buckingham is a good writer and speaker.  The article is quite good.  I was unaware of this societal trend.  Interesting stuff.

Damianne wrote:

I wouldn't want someone else to be with me unless they always wanted to. Why would you want someone to stay with you out of a sense of loyalty and requirement?

What a sad thought process. Like we're knights and we must care for the maiden out of duty. Try not to have any smiles in your life choices. Ho-hum.
Oh look at the children enjoying their relationships. What fools.

love exists on a lot of levels though (for me). isn't loyalty a part of love too?

Anna Adrielle wrote:
or to put it this way...

when did loving someone, and putting their needs before your own sometimes, become a moral failing?

I don't think it is, I think it's just typically unstable.
You have to be happy before you can make anyone else happy. You have to enjoy taking care of their needs, and they have to enjoy taking care of yours, or resentment is just inevitable.

twoharts wrote:
i think the sad fact is some people are never the same after getting left behind. they just never recover. love can be so destructive, especially if you choose badly and get a "trade-up" kind of mate. whatever happened to sticking together through thick and thin? you made your choice. deal with it.

That's so sad.

Damianne wrote:
I wouldn't want someone else to be with me unless they always wanted to. Why would you want someone to stay with you out of a sense of loyalty and requirement?

What a sad thought process. Like we're knights and we must care for the maiden out of duty. Try not to have any smiles in your life choices. Ho-hum.
Oh look at the children enjoying their relationships. What fools.

Hmm. Interesting reply. In other words...

You see duty and loyalty as sadness.

You can't imagine smiling if you chose a life with duty and loyalty.

You see being childish as a way to enjoy a relationship.