Photographer
Dan K Photography
Posts: 5581
STATEN ISLAND, New York, US
I would love to see some of you gals in a bar or dance club. I can only imagine the reaction when a guy who is trying to pick you up touches your side, hip or even shoulder if you have so much trouble with a photographer. What do you do at the doctors?
Photographer
RacerXPhoto
Posts: 2521
Brooklyn, New York, US
Brooks Ayola wrote:
If I were working with a model who was afraid I was going to touch her inappropriately, or told me she didn't like the way I touched her, the shoot would be over for me too... That's too much pressure to be creative under. I touch everybody. I was only party joking earlier. I never ask permission. None of the very professional models I have in my portfolio here, many who are well known, have ever batted an eye over it. MM is the Bizarro version of the professional photography universe
Photographer
BritWoollardPhotography
Posts: 771
Chicago, Illinois, US
Step Above Photos wrote:
The way that I look at it is only the photographer sees what the eye of the camera is capturing. Not the mua, stylist or anyone else. Even with experienced professional models sometimes that one small tweak of an adjustment, that shift of a hand, bending that knee just right is the vision that only the photographer having looked through the eye of the camera knows exactly how much to make that change. As a photographer I am not in it to cop a feel or get a look at her privates. Hell, I have done so many nude shoots and had so many models walking around naked it is just a part of the business.
I do not make adjustments because I want to touch models but instead because I want to create the best images possible. And of course I ask first.
How many photographers out there have had that model in that perfect pose, with that perfect look and an adjustment was needed then that perfect pose and look were forever lost.
Yes, sadly there are perverts out there with cameras. But, most of us here are serious no matter what are level of skill is and we want to create the best portfolios that we can to attract models to work with us. THIS.
Photographer
glamourglenn
Posts: 865
Lancaster, Pennsylvania, US
Photographer A-hip, cool, young good looking dude=appropriate to touch the model
Photographer B-older, overweight, not cool man=not appropriate to touch the model.
Please memorize these distinctions and act accordingly.
Photographer
BritWoollardPhotography
Posts: 771
Chicago, Illinois, US
glamourglenn wrote:
Photographer A-hip, cool, young good looking dude=appropriate to touch the model
Photographer B-older, overweight, not cool man=not appropriate to touch the model.
Please memorize these distinctions and act accordingly. How about us babe photographers??  
Photographer
K E S L E R
Posts: 11574
Los Angeles, California, US
lol @ these threads, another reason to work with professional models and not hobbyist.
You let mua/ stylist touch but the person who is ultimately responsible for carrying out a vision is not allowed to interact? The irony. Maybe you should let the MUA/ Stylist bring their camera too.
Model
Jennifer R K
Posts: 729
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
DanK Photography wrote:
I would love to see some of you gals in a bar or dance club. I can only imagine the reaction when a guy who is trying to pick you up touches your side, hip or even shoulder if you have so much trouble with a photographer. What do you do at the doctors? At a club or bar, people are there for recreation, not for work. It's a completely different situation (although, I still think it's inappropriate to rub up on a stranger unless there is an invitation). People mingling and dancing is not a working relationship.
At a doctor's office, you go in with the expectation that the doctor will touch you. It is often necessary. If you have a sore throat, you expect the doctor to touch your throat. And if you don't want your throat touched, you probably won't go to the doctor. I've received a diagnosis before without even being touched -- it depends on what the situation requires.
A photo shoot is not a night club, and it's not a doctor's office. They're not comparable at all. A photo set is a workplace.
Model
Jennifer R K
Posts: 729
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
DanK Photography wrote:
Still no answer to my question. Why can the MUA or Hairstylist touch you but not the photographer?
What if they were straight males does that make a difference? I think she means it's because the stylists have to touch the model -- it's unavoidable as a part of their job. It has nothing to do with gender or orientation.
Photographer
MMR Creative Services
Posts: 1902
Doylestown, Pennsylvania, US
I actually never touched a model's body excepting a business handshake. I have touched their hair or collar on one or two occasions while asking permission to approach. If it's closer to the body that the model can't see for adjustment- I tell my assisitant to approach and do what's needed. Flip the hair, whatever...
Funny, my wife told me today the in-laws of a model I shot stopped into the shop today. They wanted to get their camera and shoot the shop. Their daughter-in-law is plastered all over the walls. 'magine, In-laws.
I hope they don't touch the prints.
Photographer
PhotographybyT
Posts: 7947
Monterey, California, US
InnaDaVida wrote:
I will let a MUA, stylist, wardrobe designer touch me during a shoot but never the photographer.
What is your policy on touching? Exactly what kind of touching are you referring to? (lol)
After explaining to models how I want them to pose 5 times, and it's still not working, I'm going to ask if it's okay to position them myself. I haven't yet had any model tell me "No!"
If everyone's being professional, then I don't understand your resistance to photographers doing part of their job.
Photographer
Carlos Occidental
Posts: 10583
Los Angeles, California, US
Yeeeeaaaahhh...uh huh. Not buying it. Maybe, shoot with a few photographers first before saying something like this.
Work with a lot of MUAs, stylists, and wardrobe designers, do you?
I'm often the only other person in the room. Although I always ask permission, I HAVE to touch the model to make sure things are in the right place. Almost always fingers. Sometimes hair. Even professional models need help now and then. They can't see what you see, and conversation isn't always enough. This is something you're going to have to get over. Just do your research and you'll be fine.
Get this through your head: Models are props, and props need adjusting.
Photographer
PhotographybyT
Posts: 7947
Monterey, California, US
glamourglenn wrote:
Photographer A-hip, cool, young good looking dude=appropriate to touch the model
Photographer B-older, overweight, not cool man=not appropriate to touch the model.
Please memorize these distinctions and act accordingly. Good thing I'm in the "A" group!! (lol....j/k)
Photographer
glamourglenn
Posts: 865
Lancaster, Pennsylvania, US
BritWoollardPhotography wrote:
How about us babe photographers?? I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that you fall into group A.
Hence, touching, is allowed, encouraged and probably expected.
As a lifelong member of Group B, us B-listers are jealous of you A-listers.
Photographer
Carlos Occidental
Posts: 10583
Los Angeles, California, US
glamourglenn wrote:
Photographer A-hip, cool, young good looking dude=appropriate to touch the model
Photographer B-older, overweight, not cool man=not appropriate to touch the model.
Please memorize these distinctions and act accordingly. Ridiculous.
How about
Model A New pretty model who will never be able to strike a pose but wants to model anyway.
Model B Professional model making $2000.00 a day for commercial work.
They both need help now and then, and telling them just doesn't get through.
Photographer
Light and Shadow Studio
Posts: 58
Farmington Hills, Michigan, US
I've rarely had to touch a model but sometimes it's necessary. It's almost always in reclining / recumbent poses where we've built the pose gradually and we're just fine tuning details. I always ask the model for permission first and I'm very specific: "I need to move your right foot just a bit. May I touch your foot?" It sounds stilted but it works for me and I've never had bad feedback about it.
Model
Marketa Fei
Posts: 401
Berkeley, California, US
DanK Photography wrote:
I would love to see some of you gals in a bar or dance club. I can only imagine the reaction when a guy who is trying to pick you up touches your side, hip or even shoulder if you have so much trouble with a photographer. What do you do at the doctors? The last person to touch me without warning when I was out for a night ended up with the corner of a table pressed against a place quite near and dear to him before it quite hit him that I'd moved out from under his hand. My doctor gives me extensive warning.
See, aren't you all glad I suspend my gut reactions so we can make nice images?
Photographer
Neil Snape
Posts: 9474
Paris, Île-de-France, France
InnaDaVida wrote:
I will let a MUA, stylist, wardrobe designer touch me during a shoot but never the photographer.
What is your policy on touching? Sometimes it's faster for me to help models with difficult poses by " touching them".
The other day though I shot my first true nude fine art, I didn't dare.
Photographer
Dan K Photography
Posts: 5581
STATEN ISLAND, New York, US
Jennifer Toronto wrote:
At a doctor's office, you go in with the expectation that the doctor will touch you. It is often necessary. If you have a sore throat, you expect the doctor to touch your throat. And if you don't want your throat touched, you probably won't go to the doctor. I've received a diagnosis before without even being touched -- it depends on what the situation requires.
A photo shoot is not a night club, and it's not a doctor's office. They're not comparable at all. A photo set is a workplace. I don't really see the difference between the doctor the way you describe it and the photographer. You should go into it expecting the photographer to touch you if it is necessary just as you do with the doctor. Sometimes it won't happen and the photo shoot (prescription) can be done without any contact but sometimes it will.
Its amazing the thought process of Photographer-perv that goes on. Its not only when we photograph kids that we are presumed guilty of it.
BTW love your work. You are a fantastic model.
Photographer
Dan K Photography
Posts: 5581
STATEN ISLAND, New York, US
Marketa Fei wrote:
The last person to touch me without warning when I was out for a night ended up with the corner of a table pressed against a place quite near and dear to him before it quite hit him that I'd moved out from under his hand. My doctor gives me extensive warning.
See, aren't you all glad I suspend my gut reactions so we can make nice images? lol nice and we photographers thank you for that:)
Photographer
J O H N A L L A N
Posts: 12221
Los Angeles, California, US
Stefano Brunesci wrote:
What if there's nobody else on set and something needs adjusting that you can't do yourself? If the photographer politely asks if he/she can do it will you still refuse?
Part of the business of being a model is getting used to being pushed, prodded, tweaked and adjusted like a mannequin in a window by pretty much all and sundry. If you have an objection to being touched or in some way feel that a photographer who needs to adjust something is automatically a pervert or creep then perhaps you should reconsider whether you're really cut out to be a model?
Just my $0.02
Ciao
Stefano
www.stefanobrunesci.com Ditto.
@OP - You're looking at me - stop looking at me - you're still looking - stop it!
Model
Cole Morrison
Posts: 3958
Portland, Oregon, US
i dont mind. sometimes, if they want to correct my pose or appearance, its ok it they adjust me a little. as long as they aren't being creepy or inappropriate, there's really no difference than the MUA touching you.
Photographer
Photo Visions
Posts: 1034
Cape Coral, Florida, US
I'm in the "B" group. so i always ask before i tweak their nipples.
No one has said no, yet.
Photographer
Han Koehle
Posts: 4100
Saint Louis, Missouri, US
DanK Photography wrote:
I would love to see some of you gals in a bar or dance club. I can only imagine the reaction when a guy who is trying to pick you up touches your side, hip or even shoulder if you have so much trouble with a photographer. What do you do at the doctors? I had a doctor pull my shirt up instead of asking me to undress and I got a new doctor. Even in a situation in which some touching is appropriate, professionals hesitate to get handsy. Actually, ESPECIALLY in those situations. A gynocologist is going to stick fingers in my vagina, and BECAUSE that's a delicate situation, he won't pry my legs open or drag my butt lower on the table. He doesn't touch anything other than what he absolutely must. He communicates verbally. With words. Like a grown up.
In my opinion, if a photographer is so unclear about his vision that he can't verbalize instructions, he has no business criticizing models.
And, lest it be missed, a photo studio is not a dance club, and a photographer shouldn't be trying to pick up on the model. That's kind of the point of boundaries. They alter with the situation. Wondering how a model will behave with her boyfriend or doctor is like saying, "I feel bad for your kids since you obviously don't approve of physical contact with other humans."
Personally I'm extremely hesitant to touch models unless I already have a personal relationship with them. There are some models I've been working with for years, hang out with socially, etc, and shoots with them are very casual and friendly. Occasionally I'm afraid that asking a model to fix one thing will disrupt an otherwise good pose, and I'll ask if I can fix it so she doesn't have to move. I've never had anyone say no, but I rarely ask. Once, I had a model ask me to move her legs into the position I wanted them.
Model
Jennifer R K
Posts: 729
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
DanK Photography wrote:
I don't really see the difference between the doctor the way you describe it and the photographer. You should go into it expecting the photographer to touch you if it is necessary just as you do with the doctor. Sometimes it won't happen and the photo shoot (prescription) can be done without any contact but sometimes it will.
Its amazing the thought process of Photographer-perv that goes on. Its not only when we photograph kids that we are presumed guilty of it.
BTW love your work. You are a fantastic model. Thank you for the compliment. 
For me, it's not that I think the photographer is a "perve" if he or she touches me, I just find it a little insulting sometimes when they revert to manipulating me like a doll rather than explaining what they're looking for. A film director wouldn't physically carry out your gestures for you because it means that the actor isn't coming from a place of comfort or understanding, and it won't read well. I think the same thing generally goes for photography. I'm sure sometimes it can be necessary, but in my experience, that has just never been the case.
The one exception I can draw from was when I recently worked on a hair shoot with a photographer who was also a trained hair stylist and make-up artist. Usually for hair shoots, I'm not allowed to move at all once the hair is in place, so it's necessary for the stylists to make the adjustments. In this case, even though he was multi-talented, he had an assistant to make these adjustments for him. If he hadn't had an assistant, in that case, yes, it would have been appropriate for him to make certain adjustments given that he was embodying multiple roles I wasn't allowed to move my head much once I was in position. Usually for shoot this meticulous though, there is a bigger team. I can't do certain things with hair/make-up, and I'm not that great with wardrobe, so I can definitely use help in those areas. I'm pretty experienced with posing though and I can usually figure it out of the photographer tries to explain it to me. What gets under my skin is when someone grabs a body part to yank it into place without first asking me to do it myself. It's just disrespectful and a little dehumanizing -- it's not a "perve" issue.
Photographer
glamourglenn
Posts: 865
Lancaster, Pennsylvania, US
I was once on the set with an internationally well known photographer shooting a magazine layout.
he was trying to get the model to do a certain pose and she just couldn't get what he wanted.
he walked up to her, pried her legs apart, put the right leg/foot exactly where he wanted it, put the left leg/foot exactly where he wanted it, reached on to her butt and rolled her hips exactly where he wanted it and went back behind the tripod and got the shot.
BTW, she was nude.
there was a crew of about 5 of us there. Nobody complained or said a word. After the shoot was done, we all went out to dinner.
internet models can make a really big deal about nothing and make it sound so horrible. I used to assist in NYC and i would roughly estimate 75% or more of the shooters will touch the models at some point in the shoot.
deal with it.
Photographer
salvatori.
Posts: 4288
Amundsen-Scott - permanent station of the US, Unclaimed Sector, Antarctica
BritWoollardPhotography wrote:
How about us babe photographers?? Can't answer that directly, but I can say this: from all the shit I've read on this site from models and how fearful they are of male shooters and how shooting with female shooters puts them more at ease, etc., I can honestly say that a lesbian (who doesn't admit to being one) can cop as many feels and stay as freakin' excited as she wants, and the models will never know any better.
Damn, I wish I had better legs and looked good in a dress...
Photographer
Chuckarelei
Posts: 11271
Seattle, Washington, US
Image Works 123 wrote:
Funny you asked- I always tell the model about her hair being out of place. The other weeks she told me I could touch her hair but only with permission. I see it as an invasion of space but hair being out of place can ruin an otherwise great shot and it has happen before. I now ask the model to at least bring a hair brush. If a model doesn't want to have her hair touched unless with permission, then she should find a different hobby.
*Note I said she should find another hobby. I didn't say another profession.
Photographer
Ken Marcus Studios
Posts: 9421
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
JSL wrote:
Damn, I wish I had better legs and looked good in a dress... From what I understand, you do !
Photographer
RedIonStudio
Posts: 367
SHERMAN OAKS, California, US
Some times describing and event showing a sample picture is not enough for a model to place her hand where I want it... I will ask if I may move her hand or guide her.
I find models who do not like "touching" have other "issues" and need to leave those issues out of the studio!!! :-)
Photographer
Carlos Occidental
Posts: 10583
Los Angeles, California, US
Chuckarelei wrote:
*Note I said she should find another hobby. I didn't say another profession. op Read what Chuck wrote carefully and think about it. Professional models are touched, and understand they need to be touched to get the photo.
Photographer
salvatori.
Posts: 4288
Amundsen-Scott - permanent station of the US, Unclaimed Sector, Antarctica
Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
From what I understand, you do ! Ken,
You're only saying that so you can get me to pose in some of those kinky-ass photos you take.
Well, it worked, please forward my advance to............lol
Model
nnn
Posts: 131
Plymouth, England, United Kingdom
If I'm just not getting the pose right or there is a hair in the way etc and the photogrpaher has to touch/move me to fix that then so be it. There is a distinct difference between touching and groping; a hairdresser isn't groping your hair when he moves/styles it to make it look right and neither is a photographer when he/she moves your body into the right position. It's a matter of styling not sexual contact.
Of course there will be exceptions to this, but that level of perving usually comes out in conversation before you even get to the 'arranging the shoot' stage so is easily avoided.
Photographer
Shutterbug5269
Posts: 16084
Herkimer, New York, US
liindsay ann wrote:
Doesn't matter, as long as it's professional and necessary.. And after they have asked for and received your permission.
Photographer
Blue Rose Photo
Posts: 264
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
PANHEAD PHOTOGRAPHY wrote:
You've worked with a MUA, stylistic, wardrobe designer
Really ? Come on you're jiviing us right?
Sorry found it offensive that you think photographers
Have cuddies +1
Photographer
Blue Rose Photo
Posts: 264
Minneapolis, Minnesota, US
Chuckarelei wrote:
If a model doesn't want to have her hair touched unless with permission, then she should find a different hobby.
*Note I said she should find another hobby. I didn't say another profession. +1
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 13053
Atlanta, Georgia, US
PANHEAD PHOTOGRAPHY wrote:
You've worked with a MUA, stylistic, wardrobe designer
Really ? Come on you're jiviing us right?
Sorry found it offensive that you think photographers
Have cuddies +1
Photographer
Jessica-Dee
Posts: 1351
Chester, England, United Kingdom
I seem to have an abundance of leotards which I shoot with, each one has 3 poppers/buttons right under the crotch and I've been asked so many times to do them up for models who can't! (I don't use the leotards in hope of this.. I just really like them!)
It's slightly awkward (more for me) but I'm hoping they asked because they trusted I was doing "a job" not being a perve.. I know it probably helps that I'm a girl but when you need to look just right there's a lot of things you can't do yourself and if the photographer happens to be male you're going to have to get used to it.
Just work with photographers you trust completely so you're comfortable.
Photographer
Doug Lester
Posts: 10591
Atlanta, Georgia, US
Is there a woman alive who can not tell the difference between being touched to set a pose and being groped?
For the past eleventyseven years about 95% of my shoots have been nude shoots. There are times when communication, for whatever reason, simply does not work. Either the model does not have tha capacity to understand what I'm saying or I don't have the capacity to explain myself properly. Whatever!
Once I've unsuccesfully tried to explaing what I'm after several times, I'll let the model know what I'm about to do, then go ahead and make the adjustment. No, I do not ask for permission, I tell them. If they object, well I guess it was a short shoot. If the torso or hips need to be moved, I'll use my fingetips to guide her into position.
No one has ever objected.
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