Chuckarelei wrote:

Ivanafox wrote:
WOW!  I didn't know companies like coca-cola use MM to cast models.

Ivana is right. I seriously doubt Coca-Cola would use MM to cast their models.

No but some big companies look.

Rebecca Lawrence wrote:
From reading all of these replies that there's a strong preference to see our rates, I'm really surprised.  It used to be that the "About Me" section was mostly biographical information and now you guys actually want to see rates right there in the profile?  I would be very nervous to do this out of fear that someone would read the number and then move on before even clicking on the image gallery.  Or be holding that amount of dollars in their head while viewing the images.  I'd like people to simply be able to enjoy viewing my work and then inquire.  I'd like to be able to develop a concept and price it accordingly with my photographic collaborators rather than feel like they were browsing me the same way I would shop for goods on eBay or an online store. 

I view myself the same way a painter who does private commissions would view herself--everything is based on the specifics of the assignment and therefore no catch-all prices are listed online.

Exactly..

Chuckarelei wrote:

Ivanafox wrote:
WOW!  I didn't know companies like coca-cola use MM to cast models.

Ivana is right. I seriously doubt Coca-Cola would use MM to cast their models.

I can see it now.   Model flakes on a paid shoot.   Asked later she says, her grandmother passed.   Someone who know her says but I thought you were adopted.   Any company casting a model from this site deserves whatever happens.   You want real models go to agencies.

In general, I would agree that better results are done by using pros but lets be candid how many working pro models are here.   This is a site where pro models feel that ditching on a job is fine if another that pays more comes along.   Lets also be frank there are few models on MM that any real world fashion or commercial agency would sign.   This is largely a hobby site with some working photographers and fewer agency signed or pro models.   This ideal that paying someone $100.00 or more per hour for images that can't sell even as stock or gallery work for non existent buyers is a farce.

Photographers who do so just have the bucks to do so.   Those, I've seen who have tend to not have better images then those who don't in fact most of those who don't pay are better photographers.   Rather then even respect those that pay many of the models here call them suckers...  I mean GWC.

Eliza C wrote:
Doesn't hurt mine and I am at the bottom rung of professional. They know I am good and am not going to be expensive. Look around here that is what MM is for but don't neceesarily go for the boobies

A model's job is to interpret the photographer/artist/designer's vision. That takes a little intelligence which I always say is a good model's best asset. If she is asking stupid money or inconsistent and is talking money before talking about your vision you know she isn't a professional. When the rate comes it should be reasonable sensible and fair. Photographers know that but some try it on too

Unfortunately, quantifying lost opportunity is difficult. When a customer chooses not to use or buy a service, many times the provider will never know that the opportunity has been lost because the customer may silently move on to another option.

But more to the OP's question, I believe that he's asking why a model asking top-of-the-chain rates is baffled when photographers don't meet his/her expectations. The disconnect is that the service provider (the model) is drawing interest from those (lower-paying photographers) outside of her market (high-paying photographers). Perhaps, the reason that she is drawing this unwanted interest may lie in her not posting her rates. Posting his/her rates may save both parties the wasted negotiation efforts due to their incompatibilities.

Back to the restaurant analogy … owners of high-end restaurants (some who don't post their prices) generally don't market to the average Joe who can't afford their prices. Thusly, they don't sit around and wonder why the average Joe doesn't patronize their establishments. They have identified their market, priced accordingly and targeted that market.

BTW, I'm not comparing a model to a bowl of cold soup either ... :-)

Ivanafox wrote:

WOW!  I didn't know companies like coca-cola use MM to cast models.

I don't understand why photographers put themselves in a begging situation when it comes to paying for shoots. Personally I think the MM photographers are in the drivers seat as far as negotiations go (unless the model is truly exceptional). I would think it would be easier and smarter to tell the model what you have to offer and let them take it or leave it. Plenty more models.

LOL I am very positive you are correct Ivanafox.  In fact I am also sure that their many advertising agencies (who do the castings) don't use MM as well.  This site it great for networking but not for finding any kind of commercial work beyond shoot on spec that get picked up.

Rebecca Lawrence wrote:
...  I would be very nervous to do this out of fear that someone would read the number and then move on before even clicking on the image gallery.  Or be holding that amount of dollars in their head while viewing the images  ...

This is very possible. Maybe even likely. If a $20/hr photographer views the profile of a $100/hr model, he may not get past the bio page. But what are the chances that the same $20/hr photographer will increase his budget to $100/hr after viewing the images? I may be way off but I'd guess that the percentage would be low.

Which brings us to "does it hurt the model" to list the price? If she doesn't mind entertaining offers that are below her range, perhaps it doesn't hurt. From the OP's post, it seemed that the model was disturbed by those who didn't meet her rate requirements. In her case, listing a range may be wise because it would fend off those who couldn't afford her services.

R L P wrote:

Unfortunately, quantifying lost opportunity is difficult. When a customer chooses not to use or buy a service, many times the provider will never know that the opportunity has been lost because the customer may silently move on to another option.

But more to the OP's question, I believe that he's asking why a model asking top-of-the-chain rates is baffled when photographers don't meet his/her expectations. The disconnect is that the service provider (the model) is drawing interest from those (lower-paying photographers) outside of her market (high-paying photographers). Perhaps, the reason that she is drawing this unwanted interest may lie in her not posting her rates. Posting his/her rates may save both parties the wasted negotiation efforts due to their incompatibilities.

Back to the restaurant analogy … owners of high-end restaurants (some who don't post their prices) generally don't market to the average Joe who can't afford their prices. Thusly, they don't sit around and wonder why the average Joe doesn't patronize their establishments. They have identified their market, priced accordingly and targeted that market.

BTW, I'm not comparing a model to a bowl of cold soup either ... :-)

The models asking top of the chain rates HERE are not professionals are they?
If you get a ridiculous quote move on you know its not for real.
But sometimes models get work here - even from castings - that offer more than the rate they normally charge. Not talking silly money here but sometimes say double plus product freebies.
If I am missing out on work from not posting my rates I wouldn't have been able to fit it in anyway when I was full time.

But as I keep saying - most of the well paid regular, spin off work does not come from photographers. Please look at castings (paid) in London; NY etc.

R L P wrote:

This is very possible. Maybe even likely. If a $20/hr photographer views the profile of a $100/hr model, he may not get past the bio page. But what are the chances that the same $20/hr photographer will increase his budget to $100/hr after viewing the images? I may be way off but I'd guess that the percentage would be low.

Which brings us to "does it hurt the model" to list the price? If she doesn't mind entertaining offers that are below her range, perhaps it doesn't hurt. From the OP's post, it seemed that the model was disturbed by those who didn't meet her rate requirements. In her case, listing a range may be wise because it would fend off those who couldn't afford her services.

I love your profile and I don't really like the Cowboys even though I was in Texas.   I agree with your examples as well.   If I go to a restaurant I don't want to be surprised to hear at the end of the meal that those steak dinners for me and my girl cost half a million.   Or that they had a broke mofo special for broke mofo's like me.   Let my broke as% know what's up from the start.   To start with I dislike the models who Tag me love your work, lets shoot.   Then after you baited a brother... its how much do, I pay or this is what I charge.   That's why letting me know up front is best.   Like the restaurant give me some prices up front.   Write me about a shoot give me some prices.   

Want to shoot but expect to be paid, say so and say how much.

Eliza C wrote:

The models asking top of the chain rates HERE are not professionals are they?
If you get a ridiculous quote move on you know its not for real.
But sometimes models get work here - even from castings - that offer more than the rate they normally charge. Not talking silly money here but sometimes say double plus product freebies.
If I am missing out on work from not posting my rates I wouldn't have been able to fit it in anyway when I was full time.

But as I keep saying - most of the well paid regular, spin off work does not come from photographers. Please look at castings (paid) in London; NY etc.

There is a standard rate that most of the full time models here charge.  I have paid above that rate when I knew that the model was worth it.

Tony Lawrence wrote:

I love your profile and I don't really like the Cowboys even though I was in Texas.   I agree with your examples as well.   If I go to a restaurant I don't want to be surprised to hear at the end of the meal that those steak dinners for me and my girl cost half a million.   Or that they had a broke mofo special for broke mofo's like me.   Let my broke as% know what's up from the start.   To start with I dislike the models who Tag me love your work, lets shoot.   Then after you baited a brother... its how much do, I pay or this is what I charge.   That's why letting me know up front is best.   Like the restaurant give me some prices up front.   Write me about a shoot give me some prices.   

Want to shoot but expect to be paid, say so and say how much.

I always know up front what the model charges.

Rebecca Lawrence wrote:
...  I would be very nervous to do this out of fear that someone would read the number and then move on before even clicking on the image gallery.  Or be holding that amount of dollars in their head while viewing the images  ...

R L P wrote:
This is very possible. Maybe even likely. If a $20/hr photographer views the profile of a $100/hr model, he may not get past the bio page. But what are the chances that the same $20/hr photographer will increase his budget to $100/hr after viewing the images? I may be way off but I'd guess that the percentage would be low.

Which brings us to "does it hurt the model" to list the price? If she doesn't mind entertaining offers that are below her range, perhaps it doesn't hurt. From the OP's post, it seemed that the model was disturbed by those who didn't meet her rate requirements. In her case, listing a range may be wise because it would fend off those who couldn't afford her services.

I agree.

I don't see how it would hurt a Model to menu a few basic rates for common genre/shoot lengths and negotiate for less common ones. This seem to be the case anyway when one can predict that a Model will automatically quote $100 per hour without even looking at their portfolio to see if it would be someone that they would want images from instead of charging a rate so what difference would listing rates make?

When someone inquires about a portrait shoot or a wedding I have a base price and suggest that we talk to get a more accurate quote this allows me to service the prospects that are truly interested in hiring me. The base price is there to filter out the tire kickers and non target market clients. If they don't feel that my work is worth it, then the phone won't ring. If it's too low the demand will tell me to raise my price.

Tony Lawrence wrote:
I love your profile and I don't really like the Cowboys even though I was in Texas.   I agree with your examples as well.   If I go to a restaurant I don't want to be surprised to hear at the end of the meal that those steak dinners for me and my girl cost half a million.   Or that they had a broke mofo special for broke mofo's like me.   Let my broke as% know what's up from the start.   To start with I dislike the models who Tag me love your work, lets shoot.   Then after you baited a brother... its how much do, I pay or this is what I charge.   That's why letting me know up front is best.   Like the restaurant give me some prices up front.   Write me about a shoot give me some prices.   

Want to shoot but expect to be paid, say so and say how much.

Professional models don't do that. We wait to be asked

And I have eaten very reasonably in top London restaurants that do not put the prices outside. If you want somewhere special and intimate check reviews and websites on line. And just because it seems reasonable price by contrast doesn't mean it is.

Cream tea at the Ritz or the Gore be prepared to pay a fair amount (maybe £30 or more) but be very satisfied. See a cream tea for £5 and you won't even get clotted cream or sandwiches and the service will be crap and they will try to overcharge you. Yes of course you have to beware but there are subtle ways of doing that.
You had better call me if coming to London - I am £145 a day to shoot but will be your free guide to a hidden world And we won't be eating at the tourist traps that post their prices for Americans
I don't see the analogy is relevant for models though.

Eliza C wrote:

Professional models don't do that. We wait to be asked

And I have eaten very reasonably in top London restaurants that do not put the prices outside. If you want somewhere special and intimate check reviews and websites on line. And just because it seems reasonable price by contrast doesn't mean it is.

Cream tea at the Ritz or the Gore be prepared to pay a fair amount (maybe £30 or more) but be very satisfied. See a cream tea for £5 and you won't even get clotted cream or sandwiches and the service will be crap and they will try to overcharge you. Yes of course you have to beware but there are subtle ways of doing that.
You had better call me if coming to London - I am £145 a day to shoot but will be your free guide to a hidden world And we won't be eating at the tourist traps that post their prices for Americans

I am still thinking about going to London.   

Eliza C wrote:

Professional models don't do that. We wait to be asked

And I have eaten very reasonably in top London restaurants that do not put the prices outside. If you want somewhere special and intimate check reviews and websites on line. And just because it seems reasonable price by contrast doesn't mean it is.

Cream tea at the Ritz or the Gore be prepared to pay a fair amount (maybe £30 or more) but be very satisfied. See a cream tea for £5 and you won't even get clotted cream or sandwiches and the service will be crap and they will try to overcharge you. Yes of course you have to beware but there are subtle ways of doing that.
You had better call me if coming to London - I am £145 a day to shoot but will be your free guide to a hidden world And we won't be eating at the tourist traps that post their prices for Americans

I've been to Spain, Rome and Paris.   I love America.   We get lots of food at cheap prices.   We have all you can eat spots.    Americans want big portions for cheap prices.   My ex-wife loved London but was shocked at the prices there.   By the way, I don't mean to imply that models don't have the right to ask for what they think is fair.   Just tell me so, I won't be a pest by asking.

Jerry Nemeth wrote:

I am still thinking about going to London.   

I am in Swansea now but amazingly stunning coastline and London just a few hours by train. I am happy to put you up too Jerry just holler

Eliza C wrote:

I am in Swansea now but amazingly stunning coastline and London just a few hours by train. I am happy to put you up too Jerry just holler

You must be back in school.

Laura UnBound wrote:
I had my rates posted for a while, thinking it would cut communication hassles down. I learned a few things...

1) My rate for two hours is XX.XX, and a photographer 4 hours away from me thinks they can book me for XX.XX for only two hours, and Im going to drive for a total of 8 hours.
The reality: Absolutely not. You go outside my 'reasonably accessible' zone and my rates go up. I dont calculate travel time into my shooting time rate, but if Im only doing the trip for you, I need to make more than I would if I were booked by someone right down the street to make the whole ordeal worth my while.

2) Someone with a lower budget that I would probably be willing to consider doesnt even bother contacting me, regardless of whether or not I clearly post that my rates are negotiable, they see the numbers and have made up their mind that Im out of their range.

3) Other negotiable factors play in. Can I stay with you, can I get a ride from you, Do you have something interesting to trade me, Can you put together other paying shoots for me, Can I use your studio with someone else, etc. Again, people see the numbers and move along, not considering that they have something I view as a valuable trade.


In short, I a) received less offers on a whole, and b) learned the error of underselling myself to people who typically and happily budget for and pay XXX.XX/hour but saw I was only charging XXX.XX and of course didnt offer up their budget because I was saving them money.

This as well..

Tony Lawrence wrote:

I've been to Spain, Rome and Paris.   I love America.   We get lots of food at cheap prices.   We have all you can eat spots.    Americans want big portions for cheap prices.   My ex-wife loved London but was shocked at the prices there.   By the way, I don't mean to imply that models don't have the right to ask for what they think is fair.   Just tell me so, I won't be a pest by asking.

Just don't ask if you eat somewhere scary with me in London why they give us a very special price 'kay ?

If you ever go to Prague order in Czech it will be half price.

Different places have different ways of doing things. Yes I know everything is pretty much upfront in the USA and portions are big - been several times. But it does take some of the mystique away

Jerry Nemeth wrote:

You must be back in school.

Yes - palaeoclimatology PhD and 12 students a year to tutor so quite busy but loving it. Few accidents trying to mix modelling with it most famously dying my hair a stronger red for a job and getting my lab coat pink and orange ha ha; and my colleagues looking at me a bit funny on the way to a job leaving campus in a mink coat and thigh boots and plastered in make up.

Great 3 bed apartment overlooking the sea with balcony though and amazing shoot spots walkable; haven't used a fraction of them yet.

Cascading Falls Photogr wrote:
If a model would charge $25 hr. and and work a 40 hr. week, they would make over
$45,000 a year, but many models that charge $100 hr. can't get steady work. Many people want to charge top dollar because we all think we are special. If you really like modeling but aren't experienced enough to be charging those rates, you need to decide what your goal is. The more reasonable the rate, the more you are going to work, the more chance of meeting more people, the better the chance of being discovered or at least getting experience. If you are not discovered, you can still make a good, steady income. There are few people without a college education making over $15 hr. today.
If models would charge $15 to $25 an hr. for all styles that they are comforatable with ,and were good at managing their time, they could make a steady comforatable living and it wouldn't be feast or famine all the time.

Yes - I work for $15 an hour doing research and tutoring degree students - the difference is it is every day for three years and I don't have to travel 100 miles for a two hour job that's a one off. In addition; the travel involved and preparation means its many more hours thereby preventing any further work that day; completely scuppering the $45 k a year plan.

So book me and I want a days pay. Whether it is two hours or ten its the same. That isn't feast or famine its what works and suited me for nearly three years. Not so applicable now back at uni; but before in London if I worked for two hours it could cost me a weeks work as sods law someone would ring up offering a week or even ten weeks say every wednesday life modelling. Photographers are generally one off bookings that is the problem; so you have to make sure you get a days pay to justify it; especially when if a fashion house wants you for a week you could actually lose a lot. I don't understand why some photographers cannot see that or don't understand that not all paid modelling is photographer booked.

Think of it this way. I book you for a port update at a rate of $20 an hour then we are all set to go and you get a $3k wedding job. How would you feel then? Especially when I don't want any prints from you and only want to shoot for one hour but I am two hours getting ready with my mua and you are making coffee and telling me what we are doing.

Laura UnBound wrote:
I had my rates posted for a while, thinking it would cut communication hassles down. I learned a few things...

1) My rate for two hours is XX.XX, and a photographer 4 hours away from me thinks they can book me for XX.XX for only two hours, and Im going to drive for a total of 8 hours.
The reality: Absolutely not. You go outside my 'reasonably accessible' zone and my rates go up. I dont calculate travel time into my shooting time rate, but if Im only doing the trip for you, I need to make more than I would if I were booked by someone right down the street to make the whole ordeal worth my while.

2) Someone with a lower budget that I would probably be willing to consider doesnt even bother contacting me, regardless of whether or not I clearly post that my rates are negotiable, they see the numbers and have made up their mind that Im out of their range.

3) Other negotiable factors play in. Can I stay with you, can I get a ride from you, Do you have something interesting to trade me, Can you put together other paying shoots for me, Can I use your studio with someone else, etc. Again, people see the numbers and move along, not considering that they have something I view as a valuable trade.


In short, I a) received less offers on a whole, and b) learned the error of underselling myself to people who typically and happily budget for and pay XXX.XX/hour but saw I was only charging XXX.XX and of course didnt offer up their budget because I was saving them money.

This x

Cascading Falls Photogr wrote:
If a model would charge $25 hr. and and work a 40 hr. week, they would make over
$45,000 a year, but many models that charge $100 hr. can't get steady work. Many people want to charge top dollar because we all think we are special. If you really like modeling but aren't experienced enough to be charging those rates, you need to decide what your goal is. The more reasonable the rate, the more you are going to work, the more chance of meeting more people, the better the chance of being discovered or at least getting experience. If you are not discovered, you can still make a good, steady income. There are few people without a college education making over $15 hr. today.
If models would charge $15 to $25 an hr. for all styles that they are comforatable with ,and were good at managing their time, they could make a steady comforatable living and it wouldn't be feast or famine all the time.

Perceived value makes a difference. One of our art nude model colleagues tried lowering her rates to $20/hour. The result was her bookings dropped off and because the work she was getting paid so little, she couldn't survive that way.  Simply charging less for a service is not guarantee of booking more work. Instead of feast or famine, you'd find yourself with famine or slightly less horrifying famine.

Freelancing/self-employment generally requires 3-4 unbillable hours for every hour billed. No freelancer is billing 40/week, at least not with anything resembling consistency. In some fields, a long term booking is possible, but those are exceedingly rare in modeling.

Mickle Design Werks wrote:
I agree.

I don't see how it would hurt a Model to menu a few basic rates for common genre/shoot lengths and negotiate for less common ones. This seem to be the case anyway when one can predict that a Model will automatically quote $100 per hour without even looking at their portfolio to see if it would be someone that they would want images from instead of charging a rate so what difference would listing rates make?

When someone inquires about a portrait shoot or a wedding I have a base price and suggest that we talk to get a more accurate quote this allows me to service the prospects that are truly interested in hiring me. The base price is there to filter out the tire kickers and non target market clients. If they don't feel that my work is worth it, then the phone won't ring. If it's too low the demand will tell me to raise my price.

I have a feeling that if I posted a menu of rates, I'd get at least a handful of people whining about how I structure my rates and incensed because they don't necessarily fit into the lowest tier of rates. Also, it would make it very hard to assess asshole taxes.

I've also had a number of clients pay me more than the rate I'd have asked for. I'd have lost out on that additional income.

Laura UnBound wrote:
I had my rates posted for a while, thinking it would cut communication hassles down. I learned a few things...

1) My rate for two hours is XX.XX, and a photographer 4 hours away from me thinks they can book me for XX.XX for only two hours, and Im going to drive for a total of 8 hours.
The reality: Absolutely not. You go outside my 'reasonably accessible' zone and my rates go up. I dont calculate travel time into my shooting time rate, but if Im only doing the trip for you, I need to make more than I would if I were booked by someone right down the street to make the whole ordeal worth my while.

2) Someone with a lower budget that I would probably be willing to consider doesnt even bother contacting me, regardless of whether or not I clearly post that my rates are negotiable, they see the numbers and have made up their mind that Im out of their range.

3) Other negotiable factors play in. Can I stay with you, can I get a ride from you, Do you have something interesting to trade me, Can you put together other paying shoots for me, Can I use your studio with someone else, etc. Again, people see the numbers and move along, not considering that they have something I view as a valuable trade.


In short, I a) received less offers on a whole, and b) learned the error of underselling myself to people who typically and happily budget for and pay XXX.XX/hour but saw I was only charging XXX.XX and of course didnt offer up their budget because I was saving them money.

Perhaps the error wasn't in listing your rates but not being specific enough when creating the expectations for the rate.  For example, when I get an inquiry for a wedding, I often state that my rate STARTS at $1500 (my minimum take away for a wedding) and that clients usually spend between $2000-$3000 (setting the expectation). Could I charge more? Sure but the money is usually spent at the ordering session where I'm getting more per client now than when I did packages.

If a Model states

Rates start at $XX.XX for Y hours of shooting within 1 hour of travel from my base location. Please inquire for a specific quote.

Discounts and trade shoot available in exchange for ZZZZZ

then they don't box themselves into a rate but also establish a shoot minimum that makes a shoot worth their while.  That rate should include a reasonable shoot expenses (gas, tolls, disposal items used for shooting, etc.) so that they don't have to be added on as line items. The point is to give an idea of affordability to pre-qualify the lead and provide the opportunity to convert the lead into a prospect. So instead of having a blind inquiry seeking information that if it does not meet expectations they will feel that it was a waste of time, you instead have a lead that is educated before sending the inquiry of the minimum so they understand that its going to be at least $XX.XX for shooting absent discount or trade factors.

It's permission marketing whereas the lead is giving you permission to give them rates versus an informational inquiry that may resent being baited into contacting the Model and not necessarily looking to be marketed.

theda wrote:

I have a feeling that if I posted a menu of rates, I'd get at least a handful of people whining about how I structure my rates and incensed because they don't necessarily fit into the lowest tier of rates. Also, it would make it very hard to assess asshole taxes.

I've also had a number of clients pay me more than the rate I'd have asked for. I'd have lost out on that additional income.

Are the people who would complain "your" client? Doubt it. There will always be those that will complain about something. Goes with the territory.

At this point in your modeling career hopefully you have an establish clientele so your marketing needs are different than a Model just starting out or still building the base of regulars. In fact, I think we are in agreement that this would not be a good move for someone like you who's established themselves but it's appropriate for someone looking to build business rather than service existing clients.

Rebecca Lawrence wrote:
From reading all of these replies that there's a strong preference to see our rates, I'm really surprised.  It used to be that the "About Me" section was mostly biographical information and now you guys actually want to see rates right there in the profile?  I would be very nervous to do this out of fear that someone would read the number and then move on before even clicking on the image gallery.  Or be holding that amount of dollars in their head while viewing the images.  I'd like people to simply be able to enjoy viewing my work and then inquire.  I'd like to be able to develop a concept and price it accordingly with my photographic collaborators rather than feel like they were browsing me the same way I would shop for goods on eBay or an online store. 

I view myself the same way a painter who does private commissions would view herself--everything is based on the specifics of the assignment and therefore no catch-all prices are listed online.

This.

Rebecca Lawrence wrote:
From reading all of these replies that there's a strong preference to see our rates, I'm really surprised.  It used to be that the "About Me" section was mostly biographical information and now you guys actually want to see rates right there in the profile?  I would be very nervous to do this out of fear that someone would read the number and then move on before even clicking on the image gallery.  Or be holding that amount of dollars in their head while viewing the images.  I'd like people to simply be able to enjoy viewing my work and then inquire.  I'd like to be able to develop a concept and price it accordingly with my photographic collaborators rather than feel like they were browsing me the same way I would shop for goods on eBay or an online store. 

I view myself the same way a painter who does private commissions would view herself--everything is based on the specifics of the assignment and therefore no catch-all prices are listed online.

Agreed but giving us a base ideal of what you are looking for can help us decide if we can afford you or not.   Yes, distance,  the project, time involved all make a difference.   A shoot a few minutes from your home that might require little preparation might be priced less then one that required a trek through NY traffic.   One that involved bondage (Not saying you do that) might be priced more then simple art nudes.   Part of the problem is that so many models take days or weeks to respond to emails.   With posted rates as a basis if a model is very slow to reply and her posted rate close to another models I can move on.

However a strong clue is the replies this thread has received where it appears many shooters want rates.   Maybe a good ideal for models is to listen to those who might hire them.   However what do we know.

Tony Lawrence wrote:

Agreed but giving us a base ideal of what you are looking for can help us decide if we can afford you or not.   Yes, distance,  the project, time involved all make a difference.   A shoot a few minutes from your home that might require little preparation might be priced less then one that required a trek through NY traffic.   One that involved bondage (Not saying you do that) might be priced more then simple art nudes.   Part of the problem is that so many models take days or weeks to respond to emails.   With posted rates as a basis if a model is very slow to reply and her posted rate close to another models I can move on.

However a strong clue is the replies this thread has received where it appears many shooters want rates.   Maybe a good ideal for models is to listen to those who might hire them.   However what do we know.

There's no point in posting base rates because as soon as I charge more for time/trouble/'asshole taxes', the one who's paying will get butthurt and get upset that they have to pay more than I say I charge..

Nedah Oyin wrote:

There's no point in posting base rates because as soon as I charge more for time/trouble/'asshole taxes', the one who's paying will get butthurt and get upset that they have to pay more than I say I charge..

Love the work with Ms. Lawrence.   There's something 'bout Lawrence clans...  Anyway butt hurt isn't your problem.   Getting paid is.   Key to my mind is giving potential customers a ideal of what to expect to pay for that time.   Many photographers have little patience for haggling and many men in general hate to start asking what a thing costs.   Give us some prices.   Yes that price may go up or down but start somewhere.   Take a look at this thread again and consider what's being said.   No not by my goofy as$ but people with some sense.    If, I got a massage its not up to me what's charged there are prices listed.   


If I want my house painted the painter has a base rate which may go up depending on the job but there is a starting point I can go on.   Certainly models aren't painters or products but you are independent contractors and in my mind should have some sort of base rates.   Consider for example that a signed agency model at Elite has a base rate for catalog work arranged through them for clients.   This way the client has a ideal of what to pay.    Lingerie is charged more for example.   They all have base rates for their models.

Tony Lawrence wrote:

I can see it now.   Model flakes on a paid shoot.   Asked later she says, her grandmother passed.   Someone who know her says but I thought you were adopted.   Any company casting a model from this site deserves whatever happens.   You want real models go to agencies.

In general, I would agree that better results are done by using pros but lets be candid how many working pro models are here.   This is a site where pro models feel that ditching on a job is fine if another that pays more comes along.   Lets also be frank there are few models on MM that any real world fashion or commercial agency would sign.   This is largely a hobby site with some working photographers and fewer agency signed or pro models.   This ideal that paying someone $100.00 or more per hour for images that can't sell even as stock or gallery work for non existent buyers is a farce.

Photographers who do so just have the bucks to do so.   Those, I've seen who have tend to not have better images then those who don't in fact most of those who don't pay are better photographers.   Rather then even respect those that pay many of the models here call them suckers...  I mean GWC.

By all means, tell us how you really feel.

Why are you in this forum? On this site, really?

I am SO sick of photographers trashing on us models in our own damn forums. We all suck, we get it. Funny, our bookers don't seem to agree with you.

D M M  wrote:

By all means, tell us how you really feel.

Why are you in this forum? On this site, really?

I am SO sick of photographers trashing on us models in our own damn forums. We all suck, we get it. Funny, our bookers don't seem to agree with you.

Wow.. I didn't even see that post.. Holy shit..

Smh..

Looknsee Photography wrote:

Ah, the mythical hourly rate.  It's really an illusion.

That hourly rate usually doesn't include the prep time the model goes through before the shoot, when she's washing & plucking & shaving & applying base make-up, and such.  Further, many sessions are at remote locations.  So, it might take a model four or more hours in order to model for a single hour session.  It is a rare circumstance when a model can do two short sessions in a day, and it's even rarer for her to be able to do more than two.  So, four hours of modeling can take 8-10 hours of the model's time.

But the bottom line -- an agreement to work together is a negotiation, and each party can decide what the opportunity is worth to him/her.  You can offer a model, say, $20 an hour -- I suppose you can even try to make that sound good, but let's not kid ourselves -- hiring a model for $20 is not truly close to the median per hour wage many Americans earn.

^^Well said!