FFantastique wrote:

[from page 13]
Gary was prescient!

JT- you're making me use the online dictionary again!

Bob-W wrote:

JT- you're making me use the online dictionary again!

LOL! :-)
Never stop learning.

If it's any comfort to you, I often consult the dictionary as *I* write to ensure that I'm not using words malapropistically! LOL :-)

FFantastique wrote:

LOL! :-)
Never stop learning.

If it's any comfort to you, I often consult the dictionary as *I* write to ensure that I'm not using words malapropistically! LOL :-)

I do this too, I use a lot of uncommon words, I get self conscious about using them incorrectly but they more accurately let me express how I am feeling.

Bumble wrote:
Who has the photog rights to Post if I am the one taking the photos?

Hey Bumble... first off... YES... you do have a right to post photos on this thread... PROVIDED both you and your model subject are in agreement as to the flattering disposition of that image... BUT... if your model subject makes a request to you to remove it... you MUST do so...

Select Models wrote:
Hey Bumble... first off... YES... you do have a right to post photos on this thread... PROVIDED both you and your model subject are in agreement as to the flattering disposition of that image... BUT... if your model subject makes a request to you to remove it... you MUST do so...

Do I have rights to post on my profile? Like all the pics of getting wiped out, click click click. Dang lucky I'm just loosing wages from work and not less a model and a funeral for all to attend? But why is it now after the fact the best images are being told I must sine off with a release that I will keep off MM to up their value to sell as art? This is something I have never heard of. Much less an organized Mm trip, during group shoots?
Bumble

Bumble wrote:
Do I have rights to post on my profile?  Like all the pics of getting wiped out, click click click. Dang lucky I'm just loosing wages from work and not less a model and a funeral for all to attend? But why is it now after the fact the best images are being told I must sine off with a release that I will keep off MM to up their value to sell as art? This is something I have never heard of. Much less a orginized Mm trip, during group shoots?
Bumble

Of course you have the right to post on your profile.  No one here is denying you those rights.

Hmmmmm... OK... in this jumbled up paragraph... you have completely lost me.  Did photos you want get deleted?... have you lost wages?... did somebody die?  Are your best images being sold as art without your release?...

Bumble wrote:
G max is asking me to sign a release (model) excluding the better images from the trip so he can sell as art and give me a %. Lol. This was never discussed! Yes, I have lost a lot of work as I got hurt waiting so long for him to get his captures of "shipwrecked, " I could have gotten very hurt. I have pictures showing wipe outs. But I kept trying not to let him down! I took this on. I like Glen! I trusted him, I wanted him to be happy, he seemed to want the same? But insult to injury... I sign off I can't use images he selects yet I can edit others? What the heck is this?! I will not sign my promotional use of photos after the fact. I will not be censored on the thread or my port unless this was agreed upon up front! It was not! Again yes I loose wages at my day Job! I can't effectively teach spin , train clients. I need to pass up a reality show Friday where I put a guy though boot camp because I still can't turn my head to the right. I can't sleep without pain. Gary you need to step in take charge of this unfair situation. No drinks to blame, just bs! I hope you  take your role as organizing things on this one , or when I am better I will have to challenge you to a dance comp. Trying to find humor in this mess somehow?
Bumble

OK... now I'm starting to get a glimpse of 'the big picture' here.  To get this shipwrecked shot (which I do think is pretty cool)...



you and Glen (and Bill) decided to shoot in a pretty dangerous location... BUZZZZZZ... wrong thing to do as you both violated one of the basic rules for shoot participation.  Here is the opening statement I posted on the thread 'several weeks' before both of you got on the cruiseship:

Another HUGE concern on the cruiseboat photoshoot is the safety and well-being of ALL participants.  You will be in new and unfamiliar surroundings on this event, and the possibility of uncontrollable incidents and accidents will be present.  To minimize the possibility of such occurances, I will be strongly recommending that you exercise common sense while shooting and traveling, and don't shoot or pose in potentially dangerous locations or environments, both on the cruiseship, and while in Mexico.

So... he instructed you to pose in that hazardous location... and now you have some form of an injury to your neck as a result of this incident?



Well hey girlfren... it was at that time that you should've jumped in... exercised some common sense... and refused that request.  If this particular 'image creating endeavor' was agreed upon by the both of you... then YOU BOTH were guilty of not excersizing common sense... but YOU... being much closer to the actual hazard that existed... should of recognized that potential danger... and made the decision to NOT attempt it... REGARDLESS of his request...

I spotted a few other 'potentially hazardous' shooting conditions where I actually jumped in and instructed a few of our event participants to 'cease and desist' from shooting during some obviously dangerous situations.  Some people get this vision of a fantastic image they want to create, but within that vision, they fail to see the potential hazard that exists... and throw caution to the wind... NOT a smart thing to do...

Bumble wrote:


Better picture now?
Boyfriend, I never said I was asked to pose in any hazards situation, I repeat... that I am being asked to exclude the better images off MM and the thread,
by my sponsor after we returned home. I am asking if this ok with the "rules" of group shoots.

OK... let me get this straight... so poor Glen is scared shitless and being chased out of the water by some strange alien black blob hovering over his head... and you're saying this is a sample of better images that should be posted on the thread?... ...

Bumble wrote:
G max is asking me to sign a release (model) excluding the better images from the trip so he can sell as art and give me a %. Lol. This was never discussed! Yes, I have lost a lot of work as I got hurt waiting so long for him to get his captures of "shipwrecked, " I could have gotten very hurt. I have pictures showing wipe outs. But I kept trying not to let him down! I took this on. I like Glen! I trusted him, I wanted him to be happy, he seemed to want the same? But insult to injury... I sign off I can't use images he selects yet I can edit others? What the heck is this?! I will not sign my promotional use of photos after the fact. I will not be censored on the thread or my port unless this was agreed upon up front! It was not! Again yes I loose wages at my day Job! I can't effectively teach spin , train clients. I need to pass up a reality show Friday where I put a guy though boot camp because I still can't turn my head to the right. I can't sleep without pain. Gary you need to step in take charge of this unfair situation. No drinks to blame, just bs! I hope you  take your role as organizing things on this one , or when I am better I will have to challenge you to a dance comp. Trying to find humor in this mess somehow?
Bumble

I didn't get a chance to meet the photographer on this trip so not sure of his background. If I understand the issue correctly, he has made some laughable mistakes. He didn't have you sign a commercial release before the shoot, and he gave you a disc of all of the unedited shots. You have them, do what you want with them.

If I was in his shoes, I would have you pick some shots you like and compare them to the ones I planned to use and come to an agreement on who gets what. He should at least give you some lower res edits of the ones he plans on using. It's not going to cause print value to decrease. Either way, he gave you the shots so it's a moot point. He no longer has any leverage to demand you don't post certain images.

Best case, you come to an agreement where each gets some shots they like. Worst case, it's a wash and the shots don't see the light of day. Hope you both can come to an agreement. Without hearing the other side, it still seems like it can be worked out.

The injury things sucks because neck pain is a bitch. The surf was too rough and I wouldn't have a model in it where it was breaking near the rocks, but it takes two to tango.

SDN Photo wrote:
He should at least give you some lower res edits of the ones he plans on using. It's not going to cause print value to decrease.

Agreed.  Also sounds like free marketing to me.

Bumble wrote:
G max is asking me to sign a release (model) excluding the better images from the trip so he can sell as art and give me a %. Lol. This was never discussed! Yes, I have lost a lot of work as I got hurt waiting so long for him to get his captures of "shipwrecked, " I could have gotten very hurt. I have pictures showing wipe outs. But I kept trying not to let him down! I took this on. I like Glen! I trusted him, I wanted him to be happy, he seemed to want the same? But insult to injury... I sign off I can't use images he selects yet I can edit others? What the heck is this?! I will not sign my promotional use of photos after the fact. I will not be censored on the thread or my port unless this was agreed upon up front! It was not! Again yes I loose wages at my day Job! I can't effectively teach spin , train clients. I need to pass up a reality show Friday where I put a guy though boot camp because I still can't turn my head to the right. I can't sleep without pain. Gary you need to step in take charge of this unfair situation. No drinks to blame, just bs! I hope you  take your role as organizing things on this one , or when I am better I will have to challenge you to a dance comp. Trying to find humor in this mess somehow?
Bumble

Bumble...you sound insane with pain.  I hope you mend quickly.  You mentioned in an earlier post the shipwrecked thing was your idea?  In the end I hope it was worth it.  For what its worth, I sure like it.

While GMAX has not posted on this, as a photographer I can speculate what is going on...  When you weren't doing group shoots, you were modeling for GMAX on the side...and putting in some serious hours doing so.  GMAX now sees commercial potential...meaning he can sell the better photos...which are the same ones you want to use for yourself.  He seems to be offering you a % of the profit from the sale of the photos he might get in return for you signing a models release that would allow him to do so. This is normal business.  However, he is telling you that if he is going to sell them, you can't also be using the same images all over the place...as this would devalue the sale price...and might make them non-salable.  This is normal also.

In simple terms, you can't have your cake and eat it too.  It doesn't sound like GMAX is trying to do anything unethical here.  It just sounds like you are confused over the way things work.

Also...in theory...GMAX did "pay" you to model for a few hours by buying you passage on the cruise.  This was part of the model's agreement for going.  As a matter of good faith, I would say he should get a release for the initial photos...like the first day...that you took and weren't group shoot related.  Anything after that becomes TF...trade for services/images...and both of you are free to use those non-commercially in your port, etc.  Neither of you can sell them without the others permission.

Laura A Shodire wrote:
Pictures please? For this little black sheep

It doesn't get much blacker nor more beautiful than this little sheep! :-) ☺
[since there are people who won't understand, this is intended as a compliment.]
She was very fluid, functional and fotogenic!
I posted an image of Laura already!

----------extra TRIPOD found in my stuff-------------
Today I decided find another shirt and found a stray tripod in my hangup bag sans name.
If someone would be kind enough to disclose whose it is and how it got there and what you want me to do with it, I would appreciate it!
While I am at it, I still haven't found my reflector from Monday's shoot on the mini golf level of the shoot. I set it on a chaise lounge (sp?), I shot, a model walked off with my camera, I chased down the camera, then I neglected to pursue the reflector for hours. By which time--it wasn't available. My model releases that were in it were strewn on the deck. Evidently someone took it and intentionally removed my releases. Checked with lost and found multiple times--no luck. I don't expect this to be fruitful but thought I'd ask in case my reflector mysteriously found its way into your stuff. It's brand new, never used. Brand unknown.

This experience of having more stuff of unknown origin (remember the red boots?) reminds me of Benjamin getting king's cup planted in his sack then getting into trouble for it! (Gen 44:12).

FFantastique wrote:
---------- switching topics-TRIPOD homeless------
Today I decided find another shirt and found a stray tripod in my hangup bag sans name.
If someone would be kind enough to disclose whose it is and how it got there and what you want me to do with it, I would appreciate it!

I lost a tripod in the Morocco room.  It is an Induro brand and was in a nylon case, travel size.  It did have my name on it, but it could have fallen off.  Does that describe the tripod you found?

If not, anyone else possibly find a spare tripod.

I already contacted lost and found for Carnival, but they have not gotten back to me yet.

Thanks

Paul Albert wrote:

I lost a tripod in the Morocco room.  It is an Induro brand and was in a nylon case, travel size.  It did have my name on it, but it could have fallen off.  Does that describe the tripod you found?

If not, anyone else possibly find a spare tripod.

I already contacted lost and found for Carnival, but they have not gotten back to me yet.

Thanks

I found a Nikon triger think worth around $300-$400 gave it to Tim I believe. It was nice, heck I would of love to have it but it wasn't mine. Hope it got back to its rightful home!

Paul Albert wrote:

I lost a tripod in the Morocco room.  It is an Induro brand and was in a nylon case, travel size.  It did have my name on it, but it could have fallen off.  Does that describe the tripod you found?

If not, anyone else possibly find a spare tripod.

I already contacted lost and found for Carnival, but they have not gotten back to me yet.

Thanks

Someone and I can't remember who, was holding one up in our breakfast area asking if anyone had lost theirs. I don't recall the make either but perhaps someone else reading this will.

-Ira wrote:

Melissa by Ira Monko 1974, on Flickr

Bam!

-Ira wrote:

Melissa by Ira Monko 1974, on Flickr

thank you ira!

F-stop Jonny wrote:

Bam!

Gracias.  I simply pressed the shutter button.  Mellisa nailed the look

-Ira wrote:

Gracias.  I simply pressed the shutter button.  Mellisa nailed the look

Thanks guys!  lol Ira is this before you almost drwoned me??!!

Bumble wrote:
Better picture now?
Boyfriend, I never said I was asked to pose in any hazards situation, I repeat... that I am being asked to exclude the better images off MM and the thread,
by my sponsor after we returned home. I am asking if this ok with the "rules" of group shoots.

Might I suggest writing to Gary in a PM as opposed to airing dirty laundry out here in the forum. It doesnt make either party in this situation look good. I know youre miffed by not enjoying your time on the cruise and now the onset of copyright issues and such, but it might be easier to just write to gary with questions that can be answered through messaging

-Ira wrote:

Melissa by Ira Monko 1974, on Flickr

Lovely shot of melissa!

David Lumen Photography wrote:

Bumble...you sound insane with pain.  I hope you mend quickly.  You mentioned in an earlier post the shipwrecked thing was your idea?  In the end I hope it was worth it.  For what its worth, I sure like it.

While GMAX has not posted on this, as a photographer I can speculate what is going on...  When you weren't doing group shoots, you were modeling for GMAX on the side...and putting in some serious hours doing so.  GMAX now sees commercial potential...meaning he can sell the better photos...which are the same ones you want to use for yourself.  He seems to be offering you a % of the profit from the sale of the photos he might get in return for you signing a models release that would allow him to do so. This is normal business.  However, he is telling you that if he is going to sell them, you can't also be using the same images all over the place...as this would devalue the sale price...and might make them non-salable.  This is normal also.

In simple terms, you can't have your cake and eat it too.  It doesn't sound like GMAX is trying to do anything unethical here.  It just sounds like you are confused over the way things work.

Also...in theory...GMAX did "pay" you to model for a few hours by buying you passage on the cruise.  This was part of the model's agreement for going.  As a matter of good faith, I would say he should get a release for the initial photos...like the first day...that you took and weren't group shoot related.  Anything after that becomes TF...trade for services/images...and both of you are free to use those non-commercially in your port, etc.  Neither of you can sell them without the others permission.

This sounds about right to me! But I can't speak for anyone else but I know from my own experience that I have to sit on my own photos that I have pending to go into magazines. I can't post them anywhere even as photographer because they will not   pay for used photos! Kinda sucks because I love those photos and want to post them!
    I would talk to your photographer and see what he intentions are. Since you shot so much maybe free up a set or two so you can post for friends and family or your port! Kinda what I do for the model when I decided to shoot for a specific magazine. I will shoot the sets then shoot 1 or 2 totally different ones so she can use for her own agendas!

David Lumen Photography wrote:

Bumble...you sound insane with pain.  I hope you mend quickly.  You mentioned in an earlier post the shipwrecked thing was your idea?  In the end I hope it was worth it.  For what its worth, I sure like it.

While GMAX has not posted on this, as a photographer I can speculate what is going on...  When you weren't doing group shoots, you were modeling for GMAX on the side...and putting in some serious hours doing so.  GMAX now sees commercial potential...meaning he can sell the better photos...which are the same ones you want to use for yourself.  He seems to be offering you a % of the profit from the sale of the photos he might get in return for you signing a models release that would allow him to do so. This is normal business.  However, he is telling you that if he is going to sell them, you can't also be using the same images all over the place...as this would devalue the sale price...and might make them non-salable.  This is normal also.

In simple terms, you can't have your cake and eat it too.  It doesn't sound like GMAX is trying to do anything unethical here.  It just sounds like you are confused over the way things work.

Also...in theory...GMAX did "pay" you to model for a few hours by buying you passage on the cruise.  This was part of the model's agreement for going.  As a matter of good faith, I would say he should get a release for the initial photos...like the first day...that you took and weren't group shoot related.  Anything after that becomes TF...trade for services/images...and both of you are free to use those non-commercially in your port, etc.  Neither of you can sell them without the others permission.

This sounds about right to me! But I can't speak for anyone else but I know from my own experience that I have to sit on my own photos that I have pending to go into magazines. I can't post them anywhere even as photographer because they will not   pay for used photos! Kinda sucks because I love those photos and want to post them!
    I would talk to your photographer and see what he intentions are. Since you shot so much maybe free up a set or two so you can post for friends and family or your port! Kinda what I do for the model when I decided to shoot for a specific magazine. I will shoot the sets then shoot 1 or 2 totally different ones so she can use for her own agendas!

Tina Marie Desaro wrote:
Ok, it really is time to move on from all this jibberish drama really lol

Oh paleeeeeeeeeze... knock it off Teenerz... you know it's the drama that brings you back here constantly... along with thousands of this site's lurkers who read EVERYTHING but don't chime in and say squat...

This thread's like a car race... viewers don't give a shit who wins... they just pop in there to see the accidents... ...

Select Models wrote:

Oh paleeeeeeeeeze... knock it off Teenerz... you know it's the drama that brings you back here constantly... along with thousands of this site's lurkers who read EVERYTHING but don't chime in and say squat...

This thread's like a car race... viewers don't give a shit who wins... they just pop in there to see the accidents... ...

I beg to differ. I got a headache just reading this page. LOL

Tina Marie Desaro wrote:
Ok, it really is time to move on from all this jibberish drama really lol

Not so fast. Have the issues been ironed out?
Is everyone copacetic?
With the exception of one, we are all adults [I am NOT implying someone is juvenile, merely stating fact that one person was 17] so we should be old enough and wise enough to work things out. Hopefully amicable.

There should be some resolution.

While I don't particularly like the level of animosity I detect in the postings, I think some of us are learning what happens when we don't have clearly-written releases indicating who has what authority and rights under which conditions.

Sometimes we don't know what we'll get when we do a shoot. Potential explanation for shifting terms and conditions. Most contracts can be revised. So if the release first signed is inadequate, the parties can renegotiate!

Some people say releases should be signed before shoot, some say after. I like to do it before and if I forget then I can do it after. If I only aim for after the shoot then I may forget and be SOL!

So I say carry on, civilly, until we figure out what the norms and mores are for photography in the fast lane! :-).

Carry on but be nice!

So while we are at it, let's talk releases. Does any one have full text of releases they are willing to release or links to good releases. I have one from a model that is well written but I am not authorized to release.

BTW, images have a count of views and lists. Do threads have a count of lurkers? Someone alleges some ratio of listers to lurkers--how do we fact check that ratio?! LOL

Wonder how much of this thread's controversy is contrived and scripted to increase readership!

SNAPSHOT LA wrote:

I beg to differ. I got a headache just reading this page. LOL

Seeeeeeeeee... and you're lookin at one of our lurkers RIGHT HERE...    Juan is one of the brave ones...    For every one that posts a message... there's a few thousand forum peek-a-boo artists who are too chickenshit to chime in...

SNAPSHOT LA wrote:

I beg to differ. I got a headache just reading this page. LOL

SnapShot! Don't you have to go someplace to hurry up and wait!!! Hahaha