IBS wrote:

You have a link for that?

already been provided.

GK photo wrote:

already been provided.

I read some hearsay and a video clip that keeps skipping of an aerial shot of the cabin.

Cuica Cafezinho wrote:

I understand. A friend of mine was murdered by a cop. Link below.

http://www.channel3000.com/news/Madison … index.html

Sorry about your friend.

We have something similar here
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/ … -pr/nRGtF/

http://www.pbsotalk.com/topic1718-why-p … ation.aspx

"The Loxahatchee Groves man killed by an undercover Palm Beach County sheriff's officer three weeks ago was shot four times and required 47 minutes to travel 15 miles to an area hospital, medical records released to The Palm Beach Post by an attorney for his family show.

Sgt. Michael Custer shot Seth Adams twice in the chest, once in the abdomen and once in the forearm just before midnight May 16, the records show.

Adams, 24, called his sister-in-law to tell her he'd been shot at 11:41 p.m. He arrived unconscious at St. Mary's Medical Center in West Palm Beach by helicopter at 12:28 a.m. May 17, according to the records .

He died at 1:58 a.m., said Robert Saylor, an attorney for Adams' family.

The new records do little to shed light on the central mysteries of the case - now the subject of an independent state review - in which Adams was killed by Custer in the parking lot of his family's store, A One Stop Garden Shop.

But they provide parts of a clearer timeline of the final hours of Adams' life. What happened during those hours has become increasingly contentious.

Attorneys for the family say that after Adams was shot, sheriff's deputies failed either to help him or stem his bleeding. Instead, they restrained his brother and sister-in-law, who had run to them seeking help after Adams' phone call, the attorneys said.

By then, Adams had crawled about 300 feet - the length of a football field - away from the deputies, Saylor said, and had collapsed in bushes.

Still unknown to the family and public: How did Adams got so far away from Custer after the shooting?

"Seth lay there bleeding, and nobody from the sheriff's office would go down and see if he was OK or render any kind of aid," Saylor said.

Sheriff Ric Bradshaw has said Custer was performing surveillance in the area of A Road and Okeechobee Boulevard, and that he identified himself as a deputy and acted properly. He shot Adams after the two had a confrontation in the garden shop's parking lot."


This is why many people don't trust the police.

And also why you may find some people holding up people who go " Against the system" as a folk hero.

Now I am not saying what Dohner did was right but the whole thing already stinks of a cover-up.

IBS wrote:
You have a link for that?

GK photo wrote:
already been provided.

IBS wrote:
I read some hearsay and a video clip that keeps skipping of an aerial shot of the cabin.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/02/ … -standoff/

i don't know if you were talking about something else, but this is the clip with the mom. that's what you quoted as looking for links to.

What Fun Productions wrote:
In my life, my family and including my circle of friends, I have never had or heard of an encounter with the police that was not professional. There has been a few traffic tickets that upset some, but overall always been a positive experience.

These men and women risk their lives everyday. The loss of life in this story is saddening and it is amazing the flippant comments made about the police, disregarding those that have been killed in the line of duty just yesterday.

Many in this thread should be ashamed... And believe me, when there is some kind of emergency, you will be so thankful for when the cops show up... Their job is extremely difficult and dangerous... And I thank them wholeheartedly for the job and the service they perform everyday in our country.

Because they are human they are susceptible to corruption and discrimination. Just because you appreciate the job they perform doesn't mean you should give them a pass when they make mistakes. They don't need apologists in their corner right now, they need a dose of reality. They need to be let known that there are people (and hopefully more) that are willing to break their silence and out the endemic corruption that is rampant in the LAPD.

What Fun Productions wrote:
In my life, my family and including my circle of friends, I have never had or heard of an encounter with the police that was not professional. There has been a few traffic tickets that upset some, but overall always been a positive experience.

You and yours either lead a incredibly sheltered life or intentionally keep your ears closed.

True most police personnel are good people doing a hard job for not a lot of thanks.
But it is undeniable that most every mid to large sized force has bad apples who abuse their power, and unfortunately too often the response of the force is to cover up these actions.

And seriously... even the regular apples have moments where they are less than professional and don't handle a situation in the manner that we should expect and deserve.

IBS wrote:

I am sorry but if you are in my front yard and you have all the exits to my street blocked off and I can't go anywhere and the helicopters are shining floodlights into my backyard I think I have the right to know if there is someone running through my back yard or if I need to go lock my doors.

And then cops complain that people don't cooperate.

Gee I wonder why.

You don't need to be sorry.  Context is everything.  In that situation, if he doesn't want to handle questions, he should just say that he's not prepared to discuss what is going on and then give you directions he thinks you should follow.  Otherwise, I think it is the community's interest to know what is going on and they should be talking.  I suspect many people are just being nosy and want to gossip the news on Facebook.

What Fun Productions wrote:
In my life, my family and including my circle of friends, I have never had or heard of an encounter with the police that was not professional. There has been a few traffic tickets that upset some, but overall always been a positive experience.

These men and women risk their lives everyday. The loss of life in this story is saddening and it is amazing the flippant comments made about the police, disregarding those that have been killed in the line of duty just yesterday.

Many in this thread should be ashamed... And believe me, when there is some kind of emergency, you will be so thankful for when the cops show up... Their job is extremely difficult and dangerous... And I thank them wholeheartedly for the job and the service they perform everyday in our country.

So do I, but I'm not going to deny there are assholes in the various forces out there.  But I'd say 60% of my traffic incidences have been positive.  But I haven't had too many so I bet if I managed a few more it might go up...or down.

Little Queenie wrote:
I don't believe in demonizing a whole group of people because the acts of a few irresponsible or ill intentioned individuals.

https://www.google.com/search?q=officer … 20&bih=417

Police officers often don't get recognized for the hard and dangerous work they do, on duty and off. Yes, I have had friends that have had bad experiences with the police. I've heard stories of officers acting out of line. But more times than not I just hear stories of officers doing a job that is virtually thankless and can be incredibly dangerous.

A few people here have expressed opinions that are judgemental of the police, and that's fine and probably with cause. But remember they aren't all like that. And when push comes to shove and you need help, you will probably call them and they will help you.

I watch occasionally a lot of Campus PD.  The general disrespect they get from privileged drunk college students is amazing.  And sober ones can be worse cause they think they are clever and spout all kinds of crazy shit.

Let There Be Light wrote:

That wasn't the result of incendiary devices.  The fires were set internally by the Davidians.

Shhhhh. Never let the truth get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

Al Lock Photography wrote:
Gonzales v. Castle Rock

Law Enforcement does not have a responsibility to protect the public.

The facts of that case do not support your argument. Police do have a duty to the public, read the oath.

Sal W Hanna wrote:

The facts of that case do not support your argument. Police do have a duty to the public, read the oath.

But thy have no legal requirement to do so.

Lohkee wrote:

But thy have no legal requirement to do so.

I think to discuss this properly, we have to be VERY specific in what we are talking about.

They DO have duties they are required to perform as part of their job.  Are they not required to risk their lives for anyone.  If you're in a burning building, they do not have to go in and save you.  If you are being shot at, they do not have to get in the way, cover you, shield you, etc.  But they are expected to do whatever is necessary to try and stop whoever is shooting at you.

Justin wrote:
I don't envy cops their job. I cut them slack. And when they do wrong, I call it wrong.

I've been stopped a number of times over my life. Almost all have been good experiences, or as good as such experiences can be. I'm a friendly, cooperative guy with the uniform, and it's gotten me out of more tickets than being a combative jerk.

But two stops were real crappy items, pissy and unprofessional, and I'll call it that way.

I can't imagine being a San Bernadino deputy, going from cabin to cabin, not knowing what's going to come blasting out, and then hearing that two of your friends got shot, and one is dead. Just awful. And you've got to go confront the scene where it happened, not knowing if a round's going to come flying out toward you.

On the other hand, when there's what's euphemistically called an overreaction, and a guy who's done nothing, or certainly not enough to bring bullets flying, picks up some rounds in his body, I'll say it's wrong, and the people who did wrong need to have consequences.

Great post, as usual.

What Fun Productions wrote:
In my life, my family and including my circle of friends, I have never had or heard of an encounter with the police that was not professional. There has been a few traffic tickets that upset some, but overall always been a positive experience.

These men and women risk their lives everyday. The loss of life in this story is saddening and it is amazing the flippant comments made about the police, disregarding those that have been killed in the line of duty just yesterday.

Many in this thread should be ashamed... And believe me, when there is some kind of emergency, you will be so thankful for when the cops show up... Their job is extremely difficult and dangerous... And I thank them wholeheartedly for the job and the service they perform everyday in our country.

I've had sheriffs threaten to beat the shit out of me and my friend when we were just sitting in my car on a remote road talking. 

I've been pulled over by police and had my whole car searched just leaving my apartment complex cuz they thought I came from a 'dope pad' somewhere else. 

I've had cops wait for me and my friends outside of grocery stores just to see if we were going to try and buy beer underage. 

I was pulled over in my hometown and 7 units responded in addition to the ticketing officer, giving me and my buddies the what for trying to nail us on anything they could. 

When I was waiting tables and asked a senior officer why he worked the night shift in my town with his experience he told me 'because people don't know their rights at night'. 

I could go on with stories like that. 

And I've had the cops NOT do much of anything when I was jumped and seriously beaten by 6 people even though they knew the folks who did it. 

I've also had cops be professional around me and just do their job.  Sometimes. 

And even one once, let me out of a traffic ticket. 

But I've never had a cop be able to help me during a crisis like when some shitstick at my gf's work was threatening her.  They really can't do anything till something happens.  They're there to clean up messes.  Not to prevent them. 

And no, I won't thank my lucky stars there's some cop in an emergency because what's already happened will have already happened.  They'll just be there to report on it. 

So cut the histrionic flag waving RA RA they're all heroes bit.  Some definitely are.  And really want to make a difference.  But many are angry douches who like having power over people. 

And I've encountered good and bad cops in about equal measure, so I don't even believe that 'few bad eggs' myth.  It's more than a few bad eggs out there.

I understand their job is important in society.  But they aren't all squeaky clean merely by virtue of their occupation.  And pretending so without criticism is little more than propaganda.

What Fun Productions wrote:
In my life, my family and including my circle of friends, I have never had or heard of an encounter with the police that was not professional. There has been a few traffic tickets that upset some, but overall always been a positive experience.

These men and women risk their lives everyday. The loss of life in this story is saddening and it is amazing the flippant comments made about the police, disregarding those that have been killed in the line of duty just yesterday.

Many in this thread should be ashamed... And believe me, when there is some kind of emergency, you will be so thankful for when the cops show up... Their job is extremely difficult and dangerous... And I thank them wholeheartedly for the job and the service they perform everyday in our country.

Right. But in your little world, that's great. Now back to reality. Not everyone's experience with the police has been a great one. That's great that you have experienced that television cop from the 1950's. Today's cops, (not in general) the dynamics have changed to a major degree and it's no secret. No what you should be ashamed of is, pulling this soap box patriotic crap in here. That's all that I've got out of your post from the beginning. No one in here has defended this man's actions. And if you had taken your time vs getting all emotional and sounding more like the people that you're accusing of being morbid,("dead and dumb" and "hope that they or someone kills him") you'd see that they never agreed with his actions. All that some have done was questioned the story that this man was addressing about the LAPD. It's also very hard to stand up for the boys in blue when they go out and shoot up a truck with two ladies and a truck that didn't even match the one that they were looking for. Lucky that their running amok stopped with the two women. It was obvious that these men were looking to do the same thing that they were trying to prevent. Sounds very oxymoron to me. And that's pretty much the history of the LAPD. Corrupt. So you can save that we need them excuse. That's part of why people in L.A. dislike them, because many of them are not doing their job. They're above the law in their own eyes.

Christopher Hartman wrote:
I think to discuss this properly, we have to be VERY specific in what we are talking about.

They DO have duties they are required to perform as part of their job.  Are they not required to risk their lives for anyone.  If you're in a burning building, they do not have to go in and save you.  If you are being shot at, they do not have to get in the way, cover you, shield you, etc.  But they are expected to do whatever is necessary to try and stop whoever is shooting at you.

No, they are not. The SCOTUS has been very clear on this. A couple of related cases for your reading pleasure.

DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services

Warren v. District of Columbia

ETA: In CA they even passed a law saying that there is no obligation to protect you

California Government Code Section 845

Legacys 7 wrote:
Right. But in your little world, that's great. Now back to reality. Not everyone's experience with the police has been a great one. That's great that you have experienced that television cop from the 1950's. Today's cops, (not in general) the dynamics have changed to a major degree and it's no secret. No what you should be ashamed of is, pulling this soap box patriotic crap in here. That's all that I've got out of your post from the beginning. No one in here has defended this man's actions. And if you had taken your time vs getting all emotional and sounding more like the people that you're accusing of being morbid,("dead and dumb" and "hope that they or someone kills him") you'd see that they never agreed with his actions. All that some have done was questioned the story that this man was addressing about the LAPD. It's also very hard to stand up for the boys in blue when they go out and shoot up a truck with two ladies and a truck that didn't even match the one that they were looking for. Lucky that their running amok stopped with the two women. It was obvious that these men were looking to do the same thing that they were trying to prevent. Sounds very oxymoron to me. And that's pretty much the history of the LAPD. Corrupt. So you can save that we need them excuse. That's part of why people in L.A. dislike them, because many of them are not doing their job. They're above the law in their own eyes.

No one said that there aren't problems with some police or that it is not a perfect world....

But lets face it, the majority go out and save lives everyday and put themselves in danger. Most are quality and that gets lost in the constant WHINING by many losers that feel like the world owes them something... Just look through this thread...

I especially enjoyed you making the happy face to the post about "Supernegro" right after we learned that an innocent officer had just lost his life...

Lohkee wrote:

No, they are not. The SCOTUS has been very clear on this. A couple of related cases for your reading pleasure.

DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services

Warren v. District of Columbia

ETA: In CA they even passed a law saying that there is no obligation to protect you

California Government Code Section 845

This is why context is important.

I'm talking about a situation where the police are WITNESSING A CRIME.  It is their duty to do whatever they can reasonable do to STOP THE CRIME.  They don't get to sit there and just watch everything happen while eating donuts.

if someone says there is a crime and they don't see one and they don't make the extra effort to find it (as what happened in the first story).  That's just doing your job poorly.

Christopher Hartman wrote:
I'm talking about a situation where the police are WITNESSING A CRIME.  It is their duty to do whatever they can reasonable do to STOP THE CRIME.  They don't get to sit there and just watch everything happen while eating donuts.

That's **exactly** what they can do (legally speaking).

What Fun Productions wrote:
But lets face it, the majority go out and save lives everyday and put themselves in danger. Most are quality and that gets lost in the constant WHINING by many losers that feel like the world owes them something... Just look through this thread...

All those whiners.  Cops running around shooting people 94 times for pulling out a wallet.  Firing off 100 shots into the back of a truck like they are members of the crips.  Dragging people out their car just because they feel like being jerks.  Get a gun and a badge and their dicks get hard.  Yeah, people should stop whining over such silly shit. 

I get it, you are the right persuasion, so things like this likely will never happen to you and the people you know.  Lucky you.

Christopher Hartman wrote:
You don't need to be sorry.  Context is everything.  In that situation, if he doesn't want to handle questions, he should just say that he's not prepared to discuss what is going on and then give you directions he thinks you should follow.  Otherwise, I think it is the community's interest to know what is going on and they should be talking.  I suspect many people are just being nosy and want to gossip the news on Facebook.

That was one situation.

And I'm saying when you have members act like asses don't be surprised when people don't trust you or come forward when you want them to.

Have I met some decent police officers yes. But to deny that there are corrupt cops or power trippers or problems with the system is ludicrous.

Absolute power corrupts. The police are funded with taxpayer dollars -- they should remember who they work for. If you are as corrupt as the criminals that you are supposed to be protecting the people from then you are a criminal.

If you think you operate above the law and you are the law there is a problem.

LAPD is pretty notorious and the way they handled this whole thing was not very impressive.

I am sorry about the people that lost their lives.

Lohkee wrote:
ETA: In CA they even passed a law saying that there is no obligation to protect you

California Government Code Section 845

cy be rea n wrote:

cy be rea n wrote:

Rule number one - Never believe a single freaking word the police tell you. They lie for a living.

Rule number two - Keep your damn mouth shut until you have an attorney present. No exceptions! Not even to talk about the weather!

ETA: And that's if you're innocent and have nothing to hide!

Damon Banner wrote:
All those whiners.  Cops running around shooting people 94 times for pulling out a wallet.  Firing off 100 shots into the back of a truck like they are members of the crips.  Dragging people out their car just because they feel like being jerks.  Get a gun and a badge and their dicks get hard.  Yeah, people should stop whining over such silly shit. 

I get it, you are the right persuasion, so things like this likely will never happen to you and the people you know.  Lucky you.

Until something DOES happen to a nice, clean cut white person who didn't deserve it.  You will never hear people scream louder...  lol

But it's a valid point.  You have huge, HUGE, groups of people in this country who can't even conceive of what you're talking about, because they've never lived it, seen it, or even really heard about it (locally). 

How does that get changed?  I have no idea.

Paramour Productions wrote:

Until something DOES happen to a nice, clean cut white person who didn't deserve it.  You will never hear people scream louder...  lol

But it's a valid point.  You have huge, HUGE, groups of people in this country who can't even conceive of what you're talking about, because they've never lived it, seen it, or even really heard about it (locally). 

How does that get changed?  I have no idea.

Like the time the cops who kicked the crap out of the mayor's son in my home town ( they caught him cutting school) roughed him up and pushed him down an embankment.

Privilege affords people a different set of rules and recourse.

Patchouli Nyx wrote:

I'm surprised it took you over 25 pages to figure out you needed the attention and thus try and hijack this thread and make it about you and your (in your mind) moral superiority!

Might I suggest increasing yer vitamins to about a 1000mg of TROLL-A-DAY?

Off topic. This thread is not about me.

Please stop your attack.

What Fun Productions wrote:

Off topic. This thread is not about me.

Please stop your attack.

I have to agree. As annoying as you can be I'd be willing to be that post was genuine.

Paramour Productions wrote:

Until something DOES happen to a nice, clean cut white person who didn't deserve it.  You will never hear people scream louder...  lol

But it's a valid point.  You have huge, HUGE, groups of people in this country who can't even conceive of what you're talking about, because they've never lived it, seen it, or even really heard about it (locally). 

How does that get changed?  I have no idea.

True. Here in San Francisco, they're known for having one of the worse police departments in the country. Several unsolved crimes that's largely due to neglect. One women, a college student that loved the Bay area, decided to move here, came up missing. The mother tried her best to get some help. She said that the cops told her to just let it go. A wave from the ocean may have pulled her in. I kid you not. Also, we had a police officer who was in charge of the drug department, snorting the evidence. She was getting high as a fucking kite. After that made the news, the SFPD tried to cover it up by changing the story. And you can tell that she was a cocaine head.