Photographer
Eros Fine Art Photo
Posts: 3097
Torrance, California, US
DougBPhoto wrote:
Oh GOD, that is EXACTLY what I NEED !!!
Thank you!!!
Now, where to find a sexy model model Just look in the "Events" forum. 
Photographer
K E E L I N G
Posts: 39894
Peoria, Illinois, US
Eros Fine Art Photo wrote:
I don't think it has to do with the ability of the photographer, as much as it has to do with the setting as a whole. I, personally, don't want to shoot a model wearing a sexy nurse outfit, or posing with a sword while wearing cheap lingerie. I also don't necessarily want the model to be lit a giant octagon pointed right at her. The group shoots I've gone to though, have all tended to focus more on that cheesy glam styling and lighting. For me, it's a waste of my time and money to attend.
There are some images in my portfolio that were shot at these group shoots, as well as some in the model's portfolio, but most of them were shot during the one-on-one time. If I'm going to pay anywhere from $80 to $120 for a location to shoot at though, then I'd rather put that money toward renting a nice hotel room and having the model's undivided attention for something longer than a 1/2-hour block of time. Personally I agree, I was more speaking to the people in this thread talking about how horrible the chances of success at each and every one of them, the people speaking in absolutes.
I've never been to a "circle around the model" shootout, and the workshops I hold are all one on one shooting, but as Sarah mentioned in another thread the one on one workshops that are well organized are few and far between, so that leaves many with the only option of circle around the model shoots. If at one I just would like to think that with any thought to composition and cropping I could come up with something useable and different from the other shooters. It also seems it would be smart in a circle shooting scenario to choose shootouts that feature natural light settings.
I don't know, it just seems kind of absolute what many are saying here about them all being shit. Different people have different wants and needs, and it's not for me to say that those settings aren't perfect for many people.
Photographer
I M N Photography
Posts: 2350
Boston, Massachusetts, US
SPV Photo wrote:
I've gone to some. For me it's mostly a social outing rather than an attempt to get good shots. I have to agree.
You are not likely to have the ability (or time) to setup the provided lighting to your personal preferences or as a lighting test.
You would need to be considerate of the rest of the attendees' shooting time at the scene or with the model(s).
Depending on the amount of participants, it's a recipe for a "rushed disaster."
I have not attended or hosted one, but based on what others have described (and based on commonsense), I would only recommend these to photographers with little to no gear, and an equal amount of experience.
You are likely to learn more by networking, and exchanging ideas with fellow participants, than actual portfolio-content gains.
Photographer
Images By Joseph
Posts: 901
Naperville, Illinois, US
Good way to take a little vacation while doing something I like doing. Usually in a nice location and all the work of hiring models has been done by someone else. Some are very expensive to go to and in my eyes not money well spent. Some are more reasonable and worth checking out for the above reasons. I don't expect to get great shots or work with top models but you always try to make the best of what you have. Being told be here at a certain time and you can shoot him or her for a certain amount of time then go at it does not foster a creative environment and you something get so so shots. It is rare to find a true one on one workshop that is affordable and when found should be considered right away.
Workshops have a way of pairing you up with someone that you don't know and works very different than you do - the stronger of the group usually sets up the shots and others follow - not creative at all.
If looking to get away for some fun and shoot they are OK but there are many ways you can spend you money better!
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
Images By Joseph wrote:
Good way to take a little vacation while doing something I like doing. Usually in a nice location and all the work of hiring models has been done by someone else. Some are very expensive to go to and in my eyes not money well spent. Some are more reasonable and worth checking out for the above reasons. I don't expect to get great shots or work with top models but you always try to make the best of what you have. Being told be here at a certain time and you can shoot him or her for a certain amount of time then go at it does not foster a creative environment and you something get so so shots. It is rare to find a true one on one workshop that is affordable and when found should be considered right away.
Workshops have a way of pairing you up with someone that you don't know and works very different than you do - the stronger of the group usually sets up the shots and others follow - not creative at all.
If looking to get away for some fun and shoot they are OK but there are many ways you can spend you money better! I agree.
Photographer
Justin
Posts: 22389
Fort Collins, Colorado, US
Call Me Caitlin wrote:
Love them, or hate them?
I am curious to know what everyone thinks about them. I'd participate in one again, but I haven't been in one I've truly enjoyed. The spontaneity and inspiration get washed out in the group dynamics.
The one that had promise, I took one of the models over to the side and explained a concept. She was agreeable. We'd just started to shoot, and three other cameras came over beside me and started clicking. It was a soul-sucker.
If it works for you, do it. In my response to the OP, I work better solo.
Photographer
Worlds Of Water
Posts: 37732
Rancho Cucamonga, California, US
DougBPhoto wrote:
Now, where to find a sexy model Eros Fine Art Photo wrote:
Just look in the "Events" forum. Exactly... and there's close to 20 coming to a groupshoot this Sunday... 
Photographer
NothingIsRealButTheGirl
Posts: 35726
Los Angeles, California, US
Actually one of the first things I ever did was go to a group shoot. At Gary's! ![https://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/091220/17/4b2ecf3e0ddc0_m.jpg]() I did a little post work on it, but look closely, Gary. Do you recognize the model? How about the chair? ![https://www.digitalartform.com/archives/images/JennyChaos_01.jpg]()
Photographer
Worlds Of Water
Posts: 37732
Rancho Cucamonga, California, US
Artifice wrote:
Actually one of the first things I ever did was go to a group shoot.
At Gary's!
![https://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/091220/17/4b2ecf3e0ddc0_m.jpg]()
I did a little post work on it, but look closely, Gary. Do you recognize the model? How about the chair? Sure doooooo... Jenny Chaos is a superhottie no doubt... great shot of her... no wonder that pic has 173 comments... she's a fantastic bartender as well who mixes a pretty mean drink... 
Photographer
Jim Shibley
Posts: 3309
Phoenix, Arizona, US
I enjoy group shoots. Your sharing the cost of the location, getting the chance to work with a lot of models & see if you like their posing & personalities for possible 1 on 1 shoots. At some of the big ones there have been up to 25 models & I might shoot 5 of them. At others there have been about 20 models & slightly more photographers. At one there were 6 models, 3-4 photographers & 3 MUAs. It can also be a chance to meet other photographers & talk shop.
I prefer shooting 1 to 1 but group shoots are worthwhile for the right person.
Photographer
AJ_In_Atlanta
Posts: 13053
Atlanta, Georgia, US
I can't understand the need to post images in this thread; particularly when they may, in fact, prove the opposite of a poster message suggesting group shoots are worthwhile...
Photographer
Worlds Of Water
Posts: 37732
Rancho Cucamonga, California, US
Artifice wrote:
Did you end up making it to this group shoot?
https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=906959 Naw... didn't get a chance to make it to that shoot... BUT... this pic of Stephanie and Jeska was taken at the SM 'Junglehouse Shoot' several years back. I've known Jeska for 12 years and Stephanie for 10...
![https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/163787_105719189503106_4115287_n.jpg]()
Photographer
Lumigraphics
Posts: 32780
Detroit, Michigan, US
Cherrystone wrote:
I fail to see the point in posting images or links in this thread.
The only way this might be useful is if the MODS just put the whole thread into critique.
Whaddya think guys? Just do it! 
(double dog dare) Links to images are informative. Members who haven't attended a group shoot have no idea what kind of images can be shot at one. Hopefully, my posting gives those members some frame of reference.
Putting the thread into Critique has nothing to do with being informative.
Photographer
Nico Simon Princely
Posts: 1972
Las Vegas, Nevada, US
I have done one. That's what got me into this. I have not done one since then I probably won't unless I organize it and host it.
They can be good if conducted properly. I actually got some really great images from that shoot and I got a model release for it.
Photographer
Eros Fine Art Photo
Posts: 3097
Torrance, California, US
Lumigraphics wrote:
Links to images are informative. Members who haven't attended a group shoot have no idea what kind of images can be shot at one. Hopefully, my posting gives those members some frame of reference.
Putting the thread into Critique has nothing to do with being informative. Posting images in this thread does not inform people who've never been to a group shoot what they might be able to capture if they attend one. All it shows, it was the photographer who posted the image(s) is capable of shooting and what the models at that particular group shoot looked like THAT DAY.
I've seen posts in the Events forum where the most of the models were pretty unappealing. I've seen others where the models were phenomenal looking. I attended one once where the host claimed there would be around 15 models, only to discover when I got there that only 4 showed up (luckily, one of them was the model I'd already planned the TF shoot with). At that same shoot, I saw more than one photographer shooting only with a point & shoot camera that fit in his pocket (and yes, they posted some of their shitty pictures in the forum thread, believing they got a great shot).
Regardless, the OP in this thread asked what we (models and photographers) thought of the group shoots. She didn't ask us to show her we took. So, I'm in agreement with those who find the "LOOK AT ME!!!" posts pointless. I'd also love to see all the images that have been shown here entered into the Critique forum, so we could give our honest feedback about whether or not the images are supporting the idea that you can get good shots at these events.
Photographer
Worlds Of Water
Posts: 37732
Rancho Cucamonga, California, US
Nico Simon Princely wrote:
I have done one. That's what got me into this. I have not done one since then I probably won't unless I organize it and host it. I actually got some really great images from that shoot If you're dedicated to the task of hosting a successful groupshoot with a substancial turnout of (50+) participants or more, you'll find your personal shooting time at the event you're hosting will be severely limited. There's dozens of questions to answer... shooting locations to establish... props and lighting issues to deal with... while coming to terms with personality differences and drama filled situations to mediate. Those who have chosen to attend your groupshoot have invested their valuable time and hard-earned money in the hopes of a enjoying a successfully organized event. You better not let them down, or your name will soon be MUD, and it's always the nasty news that travels the fastest...
I've hosted over 400 groupshoot events in 20+ years... and believe me when I tell you... this is NO job to take lightly... definitely NOT a walk in the park. Your participants will range from extreme novices to highly polished professionals, in both the model AND photographer ranks. You can bet dollars to donuts that some issues will arise and personalities will clash... kind of like what you've all witnessed transpiring in this forum...
And for the record... this is a GROUPSHOOT thread... NOT a workshop thread. They are TOTALLY different animals... like comparing apples to oranges. Those electing to post workshop information in this thread should start their own thread on WORKSHOP opinions...
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
Lumigraphics wrote:
Links to images are informative. Members who haven't attended a group shoot have no idea what kind of images can be shot at one. Hopefully, my posting gives those members some frame of reference.
Putting the thread into Critique has nothing to do with being informative. I agree.
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
Eros Fine Art Photo wrote:
Posting images in this thread does not inform people who've never been to a group shoot what they might be able to capture if they attend one. All it shows, it was the photographer who posted the image(s) is capable of shooting and what the models at that particular group shoot looked like THAT DAY.
I've seen posts in the Events forum where the most of the models were pretty unappealing. I've seen others where the models were phenomenal looking. I attended one once where the host claimed there would be around 15 models, only to discover when I got there that only 4 showed up (luckily, one of them was the model I'd already planned the TF shoot with). At that same shoot, I saw more than one photographer shooting only with a point & shoot camera that fit in his pocket (and yes, they posted some of their shitty pictures in the forum thread, believing they got a great shot).
Regardless, the OP in this thread asked what we (models and photographers) thought of the group shoots. She didn't ask us to show her we took. So, I'm in agreement with those who find the "LOOK AT ME!!!" posts pointless. I'd also love to see all the images that have been shown here entered into the Critique forum, so we could give our honest feedback about whether or not the images are supporting the idea that you can get good shots at these events. Putting the images in the Critique forum would be useless. It looks like you are just anxious to get the opportunity to call the images terrible in your opinion.
I have seen some good images posted here. Everyone can decide for themselves. We don't need to see other's opinions.
Model
Koryn
Posts: 39496
Boston, Massachusetts, US
I like meet and greets, and have made some valuable contacts at them. The thing about meet and greets is that you can show up whenever, and leave when you're tired. I like organized workshops, that are structured and have some sort of educational focus. I actually LOVE working for small workshops.
Won't do "group shoots" unless I'm being paid (well) for them. I went to some back when I lived in the southeast. It just ended up with photographers going all catty on each other over who got to shoot the "hottest" model, or the girl who had the biggest boobs, or had been in Playboy, or whatever. Lots of drama between the photographers.
Every time I attended a trade group shoot, I worked my ass off, shooting with 5 or more people throughout the day, and maybe received two or three images out of all that, and it would generally just be from one of the people. Plus, they almost always tell you that you will receive a catered lunch, since it's generally a full day, but the lunch either never arrives, because the person who's supposed to go pick it up finally got to shoot the model with the biggest boobs and "forgot," or you get lunch three hours late, and it's something you can't eat, because even though you were told there would be options for everyone, including a salad or whatever, it's really just some soggy pizza and you're going to have a giant food baby all afternoon if you eat it, effectively ruining the possibility of using any of the images you get back - if you get anything back at all.
So, after an 8 or 10 hour day, you're exhausted, you're probably weak from not eating, have a headache from all the confusion, you have a 2 or 3 hour drive home to look forward to --- and will very likely have absolutely NOTHING to show for all that work.
So, yeah, if they're paid, I'm happy to do group shoots.
Photographer
Lumigraphics
Posts: 32780
Detroit, Michigan, US
Eros Fine Art Photo wrote:
Posting images in this thread does not inform people who've never been to a group shoot what they might be able to capture if they attend one. All it shows, it was the photographer who posted the image(s) is capable of shooting and what the models at that particular group shoot looked like THAT DAY.
I've seen posts in the Events forum where the most of the models were pretty unappealing. I've seen others where the models were phenomenal looking. I attended one once where the host claimed there would be around 15 models, only to discover when I got there that only 4 showed up (luckily, one of them was the model I'd already planned the TF shoot with). At that same shoot, I saw more than one photographer shooting only with a point & shoot camera that fit in his pocket (and yes, they posted some of their shitty pictures in the forum thread, believing they got a great shot).
Regardless, the OP in this thread asked what we (models and photographers) thought of the group shoots. She didn't ask us to show her we took. So, I'm in agreement with those who find the "LOOK AT ME!!!" posts pointless. I'd also love to see all the images that have been shown here entered into the Critique forum, so we could give our honest feedback about whether or not the images are supporting the idea that you can get good shots at these events. I'm not sure how else you demonstrate what someone can get from a group shoot. Does ANYONE in this thread have a better suggestion than to show example images? That's the end result of any photoshoot (well, unless your only goal is to get paid, then I suppose a copy of your bank statement would be better.)
As for going to Critique, there is no need to hear your opinion on whether posted images are good. Why? Because I don't see that any of us who posted is looking for advice or critique. You and anyone else reading the thread are free to look at posted images and make up your minds about whether you think the images are good, bad, or indifferent.
This is just like looking at a model's portfolio to see what images she has done. You can see what there is a potential to shoot with her.
Your opinion doesn't change the value equation for other people. There are loads of great images on MM that I personally would not be interested in shooting- fashion, for example.
I'm happy with the examples I posted. I generally enjoy group events, at least the format we have in the Midwest (one hour time slots, one-on-one shooting scheduled ahead of time, everyone pays a small fee to attend, all TF.) That format works for a lot of people in this region, its a great way to network, not a huge investment, and productive enough to be worthwhile. I've never done an event with a different format so I can't speak to those.
Photographer
Lumigraphics
Posts: 32780
Detroit, Michigan, US
Some people obviously just hate the idea of group shoot, or have been to one and had a bad experience. That's fine, more information is helpful. Others of us have had good experiences and that information is also helpful.
But, I suppose the newer, more professional MM doesn't have room for personal experiences and informed discussion. Its been a shitstorm for almost nine years, why change that now?
Photographer
Cherrystone
Posts: 37171
Columbus, Ohio, US
Lumigraphics wrote:
Links to images are informative. Members who haven't attended a group shoot have no idea what kind of images can be shot at one. Hopefully, my posting gives those members some frame of reference.
Putting the thread into Critique has nothing to do with being informative. Informative of what? That you personally went?
Putting something into critique has nothing to do with being informative? Market whatever you were smoking last night, I'm sure you'll make a tidy profit. 
Photographer
P Figueroa Photography
Posts: 78
Cypress, California, US
I started going to group shoots hosted by Wang Sek (MM#2231516) a couple of years ago. His were always well organized and he does a good job of filtering out GWCs. I help host some of his group shoots now and we pride ourselves and being organized and having a good core group of published models that we can rely on. I think the group shoot idea is DEFINITELY for the beginner or intermediate that need to get their feet wet and learn about lighting, work flow and model interaction and management. Wang always offers a workshop portion during the group shoot to provide tips to those that need it. The unorganized shoots seem to be those that are run by guys that looking to hang out with the models and maybe do some shooting, while having the attendees foot the bill. Most working professionals will, understandably, not attend the average group shoot.
Lastly, as far as getting some useable shots? That's where the one on ones come in. The models make most of their money by selling one on one time and we ensure that those not participating, leave.
Photographer
Lumigraphics
Posts: 32780
Detroit, Michigan, US
Cherrystone wrote:
Informative of what? That you personally went?
Putting something into critique has nothing to do with being informative? Market whatever you were smoking last night, I'm sure you'll make a tidy profit. You are obviously more interested in a chance to take cheap shots than to answer legitimate questions about the topic.
Photographer
Eros Fine Art Photo
Posts: 3097
Torrance, California, US
Jerry Nemeth wrote:
Putting the images in the Critique forum would be useless. It looks like you are just anxious to get the opportunity to call the images terrible in your opinion.
I have seen some good images posted here. Everyone can decide for themselves. We don't need to see other's opinions. Lumigraphics wrote:
As for going to Critique, there is no need to hear your opinion on whether posted images are good. Why? Because I don't see that any of us who posted is looking for advice or critique. You and anyone else reading the thread are free to look at posted images and make up your minds about whether you think the images are good, bad, or indifferent. Thankfully, aerospace giants like Bell, Lockheed-Martin, McDonnell-Douglas, and Northrop-Grumman didn't share this same philosophy and instead listened to the critiques of their test pilots; otherwise we'd still be flying around in propeller driven planes, while the Russians and Chinese developed their jet engines and stealth fighters.
In my experience I've found that if I compare my work to garbage, then I'm always going to look good. If I compare my work to perfection however, then I can see where I still fall short of mastering my skills as a photographer and it gives me a goal to strive for.
There are at least four images in my portfolio that were shot at group shoots. I'm not going to bother posting or linking to them, because they're totally irrelevant to this conversation. In my experience, group shoots suck and are a waste of money...IF you want to improve on your skills in areas other than glamor/T&A nudes. If someone wants to keep regurgitating the same glammy bodypaint, lingerie, and medieval swordplay garbage though, then more power to them.
The reason I (and others, I believe) am suggesting people post their images in the Critique forum is not to simply tell them their images are terrible. That would be pointless as well, because the person wouldn't learn anything from just having their images bashed. On the other hand, if I (and others) critique the images, and if the person who posted them actually takes the time to consider the critiques, then maybe they can see where their work is falling short and maybe being open to a new perspective might help them create even stronger images than what they believe they already have.
Either way, I don't really care. I just like to see this thread stay on topic, instead of looking at posts where people keep saying "Look what I did!...LOOK WHAT I DID!!"
Photographer
Fotografica Gregor
Posts: 4126
Alexandria, Virginia, US
Don't like group shoots at all. I prefer to control the setup and take the shots I want from the perspective I like at a pace I control.
I don't need to do group shoots to get access to models or to learn how to light direct or shoot models so they are of little use to me.
Photographer
Lumigraphics
Posts: 32780
Detroit, Michigan, US
Eros Fine Art Photo wrote:
In my experience, group shoots suck and are a waste of money...IF you want to improve on your skills in areas other than glamor/T&A nudes. If someone wants to keep regurgitating the same glammy bodypaint, lingerie, and medieval swordplay garbage though, then more power to them I posted links to numerous images. None of them are glammy bodypaint, lingerie, or swordplay.
So I'm not sure what you are talking about?
It's fine that you have an opinion. I have one as well. We disagree.
It looks like Tumblr broke one of my image links. That one is in my portfolio
https://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/22722383# (18+)
Photographer
Eros Fine Art Photo
Posts: 3097
Torrance, California, US
Lumigraphics wrote:
I posted links to numerous images. None of them are glammy bodypaint, lingerie, or swordplay.
So I'm not sure what you are talking about?
It's fine that you have an opinion. I have one as well. We disagree.
It looks like Tumblr broke one of my image links. That one is in my portfolio
https://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/22722383# (18+) I was speaking in general terms, so relax.
Ooh!...thanks for posting another image though. That's relevant.
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
Eros Fine Art Photo wrote:
Thankfully, aerospace giants like Bell, Lockheed-Martin, McDonnell-Douglas, and Northrop-Grumman didn't share this same philosophy and listened to the critiques of their test pilots; otherwise we'd still be flying around in propeller driven planes, while the Russians and Chinese developed their jet engines and stealth planes.
In my experience I've found that if I compare my work to garbage, then I'm always going to look good. If I compare my work to perfection however, then I can see where I still fall short of mastering my skills as a photographer and it gives me a goal to strive for.
There are at least four images in my portfolio that were shot at group shoots. I'm not going to bother posting or linking to them, because they're totally irrelevant to this conversation. In my experience, group shoots suck and are a waste of money...IF you want to improve on your skills in areas other than glamor/T&A nudes. If someone wants to keep regurgitating the same glammy bodypaint, lingerie, and medieval swordplay garbage though, then more power to them.
The reason I (and others I believe) am suggesting people post their images in the Critique forum is not to simply tell them their images are terrible. That would be pointless as well, because the person wouldn't learn anything from just having their images bashed. On the other hand, if I (and others) critique the images, and if the person who posted them actually takes the time to consider the critiques, then maybe they can see where their work is falling short and maybe being open to a new perspective might help them create even stronger images than what they believe they already have.
Either way, I don't really care. I just like to see this thread stay on topic, instead of looking at posts where people keep saying "Look what I did!...LOOK WHAT I DID!!" There are published pro photographers who run the groupshoot that I go to. I have had breakfast and lunch with them and discussed things.
The MM Critique form is just random opinions of a photographers images. One does not know if they are even qualified to critique images. I would prefer a critique from someone that I know can give a good critique.
The images in this thread do not need critique. People seeing them can judge for themselves if they are images that they like.
If photographers post images that they took at groupshoots they are on topic. You are off topic talking about critiquing the images.
If you don't care, why did you post this?
Photographer
Lumigraphics
Posts: 32780
Detroit, Michigan, US
Eros Fine Art Photo wrote:
I was speaking in general terms, so relax.
Ooh!...thanks for posting another image though. That's relevant. Its one of the links I posted earlier, but Tumblr isn't displaying it properly.
Photographer
Eros Fine Art Photo
Posts: 3097
Torrance, California, US
Jerry Nemeth wrote:
There are published pro photographers who run the groupshoot that I go to. I have had breakfast and lunch with them and discussed things.
The MM Critique form is just random opinions of a photographers images. One does not know if they are even qualified to critique images. I would prefer a critique from someone that I know can give a good critique.
The images in this thread do not need critique. People seeing them can judge for themselves if they are images that they like.
If photographers post images that they took at groupshoots they are on topic. You are off topic talking about critiquing the images.
If you don't care, why did you post this? I don't have to be a chef to know my chicken is undercooked. Just sayin'.
Model
wrongsideofthirty
Posts: 543
Boston, Massachusetts, US
AJScalzitti wrote:
I can't understand the need to post images in this thread; particularly when they may, in fact, prove the opposite of a poster message suggesting group shoots are worthwhile... +1
please don't point that out though, some people may be just checking in with the thread for this fact alone
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
AJScalzitti wrote:
I can't understand the need to post images in this thread; particularly when they may, in fact, prove the opposite of a poster message suggesting group shoots are worthwhile... Those of us who have gone to worthwhile groupshoots are laughing!
Photographer
Eros Fine Art Photo
Posts: 3097
Torrance, California, US
Jerry Nemeth wrote:
Those of us who have gone to worthwhile groupshoots are laughing! So are those of us who haven't.
Photographer
Jerry Nemeth
Posts: 33355
Dearborn, Michigan, US
Eros Fine Art Photo wrote:
So are those of us who haven't. You are just jealous!
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