Stephen Markman wrote:
The question is ridiculous.

No two people are the same.  I've shot with models who can take their bra and underwear off and shoot right away - with NO marks - because they don't mark easily.

On the other hand, I've shot with models who had lines/marks a half hour after disrobing.

What makes this ridiculous is the notion that it is, in any way, your business to tell the model when she should or should not wear underwear or a bra.

If she's a professional, she'll know how long HER marks take to go away and will prepare accordingly.  If she's not a professional, I strongly recommend working with professionals.

I find the idea of YOU even concerning yourself with what she wears to bed the night before an evening shoot, or the day of the shoot, really creepy.

This is no such thing as a ridiculous question it's how people learn. And when working with a novice model you should cover every detail because they won't know or think about it.

The best photographers often give their models instructions about the night before a shoot. And even most books on the subject tell you to instruct the model to wear loose fitting clothes like sweats and no underwear.

The only thing ridicoulous is your berrating attitude toward the OP.

Nico Simon Princely wrote:
This is no such thing as a ridiculous question it's how people learn. And when working with a novice model you should cover every detail because they won't know or think about it. The only thing ridicoulous is your berrating attitude toward the OP.

While that is a charming little saying in elementary school, there are indeed ridiculous questions in the real world.

Asking what a model should wear to a shoot or what she should do upon arriving at the shoot location, to minimize marks is a legitimate question.  Inquiring what the model should wear to her party, the night before, is a ridiculous question.

Stephen Markman wrote:

While that is a charming little saying in elementary school, there are indeed ridiculous questions in the real world.

Asking what a model should wear to a shoot or what she should do upon arriving at the shoot location, to minimize marks is a legitimate question.  Inquiring what the model should wear to her party, the night before, is a ridiculous question.

i didnt tell her what to wear to the party, she told me she was concerned about the bra lines, i didn't have a good answer so i asked y'all
question for the women, do stretchy bras help more?

and good call on the hair tie thing, she does that and i would have totally missed that

Guerrilla Photography wrote:
i didnt tell her what to wear to the party, she told me she was concerned about the bra lines, i didn't have a good answer so i asked y'all

Daniel, she sounds like she is nervous (perhaps understandably.)  Chill her the hell out.  If SHE is asking YOU about what she should or should not wear 20 hours before shooting with you, she's not thinking rationally.  Calm her down.  Let her know that strap marks are not the biggest deal in the world and you two will deal with WHATEVER she looks like when she shows up.  Utilize the advice in this thread (re: what to wear to a shoot and what to do upon arriving at the shoot) and tell her to JUST. CHILL. OUT!

Assure her it will be fun and that if you two (both still learning) DON'T get it right the first time - you'll have other opportunities to get better.

Alisyn Carliene wrote:

I get asked all the time to not wear undies and a bra. there's nothing wrong with it. I understand that's what it takes to get good pictures.

It really is pretty standard, the OP shouldn't worry about discussing it with the model.

I usually even remind models of this when I confirm the booking. I'm a little amazed sometimes when models will show up wearing tight jeans anyway, even ones I think should really know better like traveling nude models.

291 wrote:
regardless of level, from pro to beginner, every model i work with receives a reminder within the (many) pre-shoot suggestions of how elastic bands can mark the skin which can lead to valuable time lost on the set.

can't recall any model being upset by the suggestion, to the contrary many are appreciative in the care given to attention to detail.

Rich Burroughs wrote:
It really is pretty standard, the OP shouldn't worry about discussing it with the model.

I usually even remind models of this when I confirm the booking. I'm a little amazed sometimes when models will show up wearing tight jeans anyway, even ones I think should really know better like traveling nude models.

A reminder about what to wear to the shoot is fine.

A (politely-worded) request that the model disrobe when she arrives, if she is wearing undergarments, is also fine.

This thread (at its inception) was about telling a model what she should wear the day before the shoot.  THAT is what struck me as "ridiculous."

Alisyn Carliene wrote:
I wear sweats, no undies, and a loose shirt no bra to avoid this. Most pro models will, at least nudes ones

This.

Guerrilla Photography wrote:
So I'm doing a shoot that will in all probability be at least semi-nude and i was wondering what the best remedy is for those red lines that tight bras/underwear leave on your skin. normally my model would go braless at least the night before but she has an event to go to so that may not be an option for her, and i want to avoid using photoshop as much as possible. If she has them in the morning the day of the shoot is there any way to quickly get rid of them without makeup or digital manipulation? like a shower or something.

also how long should she go braless/in a thong to make sure she dosen't get the lines, would sleeping naked the night before and not wearing a bra that day do the trick or does she need more time.

the shoot is in the afternoon/early evening

One thing you may consider is asking the model you have on your portfolio. She doesn't have any lines from a bra, and no pantie lines either.

If you can't get in contact with her, then ask your model if she can come over for a test session. Have her wear a bra and panties on the way over. Once she gets to your place, ask her to start taking her cloths off.

When she is completely naked, start timing how long it takes for her bra and pantie lines to go away.

Don't keep looking at the model during your timing because she may start feeling uncomfortable which may delay the pantie and bra lines from fading.

Good luck and have a good shoot.

Stephen Markman wrote:
This thread (at its inception) was about telling a model what she should wear the day before the shoot.  THAT is what struck me as "ridiculous."

actually, it isn't depending upon call time.  your zeal to disregard the importance of suggestion that can make or break getting the strongest possible image was nit-picking to a degree of foolishness.

you might take some moments to understand the physiology of the female body to have a better understanding.  the next female model you shoot slightly pinch the skin on her forearm.  then do the same with your forearm.  you will find a noticeable difference, which attributes to the elastic nature of the skin, greater fat content, a better sense of general reaction to bruising and recovery of coloring.

yes, without such understanding it would indeed seem ridiculous.  it would not to those having an understanding of the multitude in reaction variations to elastic banding where recovery times vary per the individual.

it is also pretty standard for agencies to recommend the same to models should conditions of the shoot require a smooth skin surface.

i know it's just the internet, but some standard practice in the general approach to obtaining the strongest possible imaging outcome still applies.

291 wrote:
actually, it isn't depending upon call time.  your zeal to disregard the importance of suggestion that can make or break getting the strongest possible image was nit-picking to a degree of foolishness.

you might take some moments to understand the physiology of the female body to have a better understanding.  the next female model you shoot slightly pinch the skin on her forearm.  then do the same with your forearm.  you will find a noticeable difference, which attributes to the elastic nature of the skin, general reaction to bruising and recovery of coloring.

yes, without such understanding it would indeed seem ridiculous.  it would not to those having an understanding of the multitude in reaction variations to elastic banding where recovery times vary per the individual.

it is also pretty standard for agencies to recommend the same to models should conditions of the shoot require a smooth skin surface.

i know it's just the internet, but some standard practice in the general approach to obtaining the strongest possible imaging outcome still applies.

An answer coupling arrogance with ignorance.  Very unbecoming.

If you wished to attack me, personally, you could have simply pointed out --as others have-- that my response was a bit caustic.  In retrospect, my initial response (although true) WAS a bit caustic and I've toned down my subsequent responses.

The "call time" mentioned in the OP was, I believe, late afternoon or early evening.

Please sit and lecture me and teach all of us, with your vast medical experience on female physiology how the model's wardrobe, the night before, will impact a shoot in the late afternoon or early evening.

Better yet, since I don't recognize any of the models in your portfolio, feel free to contact any of the models in MY portfolio and set up shoots with them.  Then, make sure you tell Susie B, Stephy C., Anna Evans, Rebecca Lawrence, Laura Unbound, Bree Adams . . .etc. what they can wear the NIGHT BEFORE shooting with you - because of your advanced expertise in female physiology.  Please let us all know what they have to say in response to your expert instructions on what they can wear 20 hours before shooting with you.

P.S. - I'm going to disregard your suggestion that I pinch my models as I'm aware that different models mark differently and that the marks last for different amounts of time.  Unless I was pinching them 20 hours before shooting them, your brilliant experiment would yield worthless results.

291 wrote:
actually, it isn't depending upon call time.  your zeal to disregard the importance of suggestion that can make or break getting the strongest possible image was nit-picking to a degree of foolishness.

you might take some moments to understand the physiology of the female body to have a better understanding.  the next female model you shoot slightly pinch the skin on her forearm.  then do the same with your forearm.  you will find a noticeable difference, which attributes to the elastic nature of the skin, general reaction to bruising and recovery of coloring.

yes, without such understanding it would indeed seem ridiculous.  it would not to those having an understanding of the multitude in reaction variations to elastic banding where recovery times vary per the individual.

it is also pretty standard for agencies to recommend the same to models should conditions of the shoot require a smooth skin surface.

i know it's just the internet, but some standard practice in the general approach to obtaining the strongest possible imaging outcome still applies.

Stephen Markman wrote:
Arrogance coupled with ignorance.  Very unbecoming.

If you wished to attack me, personally, you could have simply pointed out --as others have-- that my response was a bit caustic.  In retrospect, my initial response (although true) WAS a bit caustic and I've toned down my subsequent responses.

The "call time" mentioned in the OP was, I believe, late afternoon or early evening.

Please sit and lecture me and teach all of us, with your vast medical experience on female physiology how the model's wardrobe, the night before, will impact a shoot in the late afternoon or early evening.

Better yet, since I don't recognize any of the models in your portfolio, feel free to contact any of the models in MY portfolio and set up shoots with them.  Then, make sure you tell Susie B, Stephy C., Anna Evans, Rebecca Lawrence, Laura Unbound, Bree Adams . . .etc. what they can wear the NIGHT BEFORE shooting with you - because of your advanced expertise in female physiology.  Please let us all know what they have to say in response to your expert instructions on what they can wear 20 hours before shooting with you.

P.S. - I'm going to disregard your suggestion that I pinch my models as I'm aware that different models mark differently and that the marks last for different amounts of time.  Unless I was pinching them 20 hours before shooting them, your brilliant experiment would yield worthless results.

interesting response from you.  i'll stand by my commentary. 

perhaps it came across as a lecture, but the perspective was given from an agency experience approach where any additional potential time element can be costly.   

with the impressive list of those you've photographed i wouldn't request a night-before wardrobe, although i would however, as mentioned in an earlier response, provide a suggestion to be aware of the potential in skin marking prior to the shoot.  i would also respect their personal knowledge of timetable where it not be a problem, but the suggestion to be aware of potential problems would remain. 

why that might upset you with such suggestion, or even thinking it to be foolish gives pause to consider your attention to detail.  no sweat from my end for that, that's something you may encounter without such forewarning, not me.

as for the pinching, the suggestion was to "slightly" pinch not for creating a mark, but to see the difference in physical make up between males and females.  if you've never done that, try it.  you'll quickly see what i mean.  if you care to not confirm that, well, that's also entirely up to you.  it is a pretty interesting experiment to see the difference.

how did i come up with that?  an agency division head i once worked with used that as example in demonstrating to models the importance of understanding their body and the effect of marking.  i'll drop her a note extending your feelings about how arrogant to do such a thing...

291 wrote:
interesting response from you.  i'll stand by my commentary. 

perhaps it came across as a lecture, but the perspective was given from an agency experience approach where any additional potential time element can be costly.   

with the impressive list of those you've photographed i wouldn't request a night-before wardrobe, although i would however, as mentioned in an earlier response, provide a suggestion to be aware of the potential in skin marking prior to the shoot.  i would also respect their personal knowledge of timetable where it not be a problem, but the suggestion to be aware of potential problems would remain. 

why that might upset you with such suggestion, or even thinking it to be foolish gives pause to consider your attention to detail.  no sweat from my end for that, that's something you may encounter without such forewarning, not me.

as for the pinching, the suggestion was to "slightly" pinch not for creating a mark, but to see the difference in physical make up between males and females.  if you've never done that, try it.  you'll quickly see what i mean.  if you care to not confirm that, well, that's also entirely up to you.  it is a pretty interesting experiment to see the difference.

how did i come up with that?  an agency division head i once worked with used that as example in demonstrating to models the importance of understanding their body and the effect of marking.  i'll drop her a note extending your feelings about how arrogant to do such a thing...

Yes, I understand your response.  I think it would have been MORE persuasive if you had managed to inject the word "Agency" in there three or four more times. 

As it stands, I'll stand by my position that "night-before wardrobe" has no impact on an afternoon/evening shoot.  That is true whether shooting any of the impressive ladies I've shot, any of the plethora of agency models or celebrities that you've shot or whether it's the OP, shooting a novice model. 

I, of course, will also reiterate that if the model is doing a bondage shoot the night before (as opposed to, for example, attending a semi-formal cocktail party) the photographer might want to make a point of discussing body marks (or, perhaps postponing the shoot.)

Being fairly familiar with the marks that restrictive clothing/undergarments can leave on a model's body, I'll STILL pass on your suggestion that I pinch a model to learn more about the differences between male and female epidermis. 

Besides, I happen to have very supple skin, so I'm not sure your experiment would yield relevant results. 

Stephen Markman wrote:
If we were discussing something like whether a model, driving 20 minutes to the shoot location, should wear bra/underwear, that would be one thing, but the OP is asking about her attire the night before and what she should wear to bed the night before.

I find it extremely odd.

yes, i see your point. but clearly this guy is very young and inexperienced. probably early 20's. was your mind anywhere near as sharp and discerning then as it is now? mine certainly wasn't. you are expecting him to think up to your level, and that is just not possible at this point.

Alisyn Carliene wrote:
I wear sweats, no undies, and a loose shirt no bra to avoid this. Most pro models will, at least nudes ones

I have to do this. I mark easily and it stays there for at least an hour after.

Alisyn Carliene wrote:

rub in LOTS OF lotion into her skin. softens the skin.
I mean she rubs it in not asking you to do so. haha

Or you could go with the classic
"it rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again."

nyk fury wrote:

yes, i see your point. but clearly this guy is very young and inexperienced. probably early 20's. was your mind anywhere near as sharp and discerning then as it is now? mine certainly wasn't. you are expecting him to think up to your level, and that is just not possible at this point.

I'm 23 this isn't my only job and the model is a first timer

plus it was her question because she does mark easily, whatevz we resolved it though, and thanks again for reminding me to remind her about the hair ties since i know for a fact she does that and i would have never thought of it

Faith EnFire wrote:
the night before should not leave her with lines in the morning

depends how vanilla her night is....jus sayin'

Alisyn Carliene wrote:
I wear sweats, no undies, and a loose shirt no bra to avoid this. Most pro models will, at least nudes ones

+1 those long boho dresses are a godsend!

Guerrilla Photography wrote:
So I'm doing a shoot that will in all probability be at least semi-nude and i was wondering what the best remedy is for those red lines that tight bras/underwear leave on your skin. normally my model would go braless at least the night before but she has an event to go to so that may not be an option for her, and i want to avoid using photoshop as much as possible. If she has them in the morning the day of the shoot is there any way to quickly get rid of them without makeup or digital manipulation? like a shower or something.

also how long should she go braless/in a thong to make sure she dosen't get the lines, would sleeping naked the night before and not wearing a bra that day do the trick or does she need more time.

the shoot is in the afternoon/early evening

Usually an hour or two is plenty.  "The night before" is absurd.

Also, "a thong" is likely to leave lines; much more likely than say, "boy shorts." (I have NEVER seen a boy wearing anything like that, and I'm glad.)

Stephen Markman wrote:
The question is ridiculous.

No two people are the same.  I've shot with models who can take their bra and underwear off and shoot right away - with NO marks - because they don't mark easily.

On the other hand, I've shot with models who had lines/marks a half hour after disrobing.

What makes this ridiculous is the notion that it is, in any way, your business to tell the model when she should or should not wear underwear or a bra.

If she's a professional, she'll know how long HER marks take to go away and will prepare accordingly.  If she's not a professional, I strongly recommend working with professionals.

I find the idea of YOU even concerning yourself with what she wears to bed the night before an evening shoot, or the day of the shoot, really creepy.

I routinely advise models to wear a loose dress to the shoot to avoid lines.  None has ever objected.  But, the day before is just nonsense.

Guerrilla Photography wrote:
yeah she said normally that would be the case, just she has to go to some kind of semi formal event the night before hence she might not be able to go braless, she asked if there was anything she should do since she wants these to turn out right

Alisyn Carliene wrote:
rub in LOTS OF lotion into her skin. softens the skin.
I mean she rubs it in not asking you to do so. haha

And you miss out on a chance to be REAL popular there . . . .

VictoriaVertuga wrote:
Yup. I have my designated pre-shoot outfits. Yoga pants and a tank usually.

One model showed up in a hilarious (in a good way) outfit.  It was basically a "onesie" like an infant would wear, except no feet.  And WAY big, it worked fantastic.

Stephen Markman wrote:
This thread (at its inception) was about telling a model what she should wear the day before the shoot.  THAT is what struck me as "ridiculous."

I agree with that thought, but you initial response wasn't clear that you were referring to the night before issue, which is, I strongly suspect, why so many people objected to your comments.

Art of the nude wrote:

Usually an hour or two is plenty.  "The night before" is absurd.

Also, "a thong" is likely to leave lines; much more likely than say, "boy shorts." (I have NEVER seen a boy wearing anything like that, and I'm glad.)

interesting, she suggested the thong since it wouldnt leave lines on her ass cheeks and she dosen't own boxer shorts but i'm sure she has boy shorts if those work better

Guerrilla Photography wrote:

interesting, she suggested the thong since it wouldnt leave lines on her ass cheeks and she dosen't own boxer shorts but i'm sure she has boy shorts if those work better

Tell her just not to wear underwear, period. She can bring some with her to put on when she's done if it makes her that uncomfortable.

Art of the nude wrote:
Usually an hour or two is plenty.  "The night before" is absurd.

Also, "a thong" is likely to leave lines; much more likely than say, "boy shorts." (I have NEVER seen a boy wearing anything like that, and I'm glad.)

Guerrilla Photography wrote:
interesting, she suggested the thong since it wouldnt leave lines on her ass cheeks and she dosen't own boxer shorts but i'm sure she has boy shorts if those work better

Thongs are often fairly tight, and they can leave serious lines around the waist.  This is perfect, if the model isn't comfortable with nothing:

Art of the nude wrote:
I agree with that thought, but you initial response wasn't clear that you were referring to the night before issue, which is, I strongly suspect, why so many people objected to your comments.

Want one. Only with feet.

I used to have  pair of seamless microfiber boy shorts. No elastic at all.  They disappeared, but they were perfect for pre-shoot wear.  Something like that with something big and shapeless is good the day of. As for the day before, no one gives a damn.

Alisyn Carliene wrote:
I wear sweats, no undies, and a loose shirt no bra to avoid this. Most pro models will, at least nudes ones

this..

Guerrilla Photography wrote:
So I'm doing a shoot that will in all probability be at least semi-nude and i was wondering what the best remedy is for those red lines that tight bras/underwear leave on your skin. normally my model would go braless at least the night before but she has an event to go to so that may not be an option for her, and i want to avoid using photoshop as much as possible. If she has them in the morning the day of the shoot is there any way to quickly get rid of them without makeup or digital manipulation? like a shower or something.

also how long should she go braless/in a thong to make sure she dosen't get the lines, would sleeping naked the night before and not wearing a bra that day do the trick or does she need more time.

the shoot is in the afternoon/early evening

I ask the models to not wear a bra or undies for 2 hours before the shoot. Worked well so far.

Guerrilla Photography wrote:
So I'm doing a shoot that will in all probability be at least semi-nude and i was wondering what the best remedy is for those red lines that tight bras/underwear leave on your skin. normally my model would go braless at least the night before but she has an event to go to so that may not be an option for her, and i want to avoid using photoshop as much as possible. If she has them in the morning the day of the shoot is there any way to quickly get rid of them without makeup or digital manipulation? like a shower or something.

also how long should she go braless/in a thong to make sure she dosen't get the lines, would sleeping naked the night before and not wearing a bra that day do the trick or does she need more time.

the shoot is in the afternoon/early evening

I tell models three hours before we start to avoid: bras, elastic of any kind, tight jeans, belts, watches and jewelry. Seems to work pretty well.

And I will say that there have been several occasions that a model said, "Oh, I'm glad you told me, I would have never thought of that!" So it's a good question in my book.

It is unfortunate that not all of us can work with Supermodels on a regular basis. Hell the last woman I shot is the cashier at my local Sheetz Convenience Store...