Shon D.- Femme wrote:
Right now, I wonder how you guys afford to pay models. I'm not trying to make this into a "photographers pay for x,y, and z and models DON'T" kind of a thread, but seriously. After paying for all the obvious stuff like my camera and my equipment, and then all the other things like studio rentals (which are fucking expensive) and ALL of the wardrobe since we have no stylists here, I literally have ZERO money left. And these are things that I cannot forgo. I have an aesthetic. I have a style. And that vision depends on my access to proper wardrobe and things like that. I'm afraid my quality of work will suffer with out it. I've never been one of those photographers who just have models show up with an outfit or two and hope for the best... Some models even charge for time spent in hair and makeup which, I can understand why on one hand. but on the other, it's like, we NEED that.

Anyway, I'm just wondering, for the photographers out there who are a one-man show like I am: how is it that you're able to afford to pay models and what can I do differently to be able to afford it?

Number 1) I do mostly nudes... No wardrobe... scratch that off of the "spend list".
        Number 1a) Though I did do a clothed shoot just recently and the dress cost $8 from Good Will.

Number 2) Again, since I deal with mostly art nudes... when it comes to makeup... "Less is more".. models can usually do their own LIGHT makeup. (So no time really spent in makeup)

Number 3) Nature is usually my studio, and that is free (unless it's a park of some sort, then it costs like $4 or $5 for ALL DAY)

So.. that is how I afford to pay models...

You should switch to Nudes in Nature... it's actually a pretty cheap way to still hobby as a photographer.

Augustine York wrote:
Hey Shon, I know I'm not a photographer, but having been paid by quite a few... ;P

Some just have well paying normal jobs, so as part of having photography as a hobby they can afford to drop money on models.

Some just have to save up for a while.

Others sell the work - either specifically commissioned shoots or they shot a set and then try to sell afterwards. I think this would best fall under the category of finding clients to foot the bill.

I'm still saving to bring you down here for a couple of days. I should have enough saved up by October.     2014

Some of us have day jobs, some are independantly wealthy, Me, I steal from old people. I'd rob kittens too, if they had any money.

J Emmett Fertic wrote:
I don't pay. Clients do. My time is just as valuable as theirs.

jf

White Lace Studios wrote:
Best Answer

If you want to get technical.. I guess that is true..
However sometimes the photographer IS the client.

So in that case they would be one and the same.. the photographer is paying the model AND the client is paying the model.

Abbitt Photography wrote:
I should add, that more and more, I'm willing to forgo the costs of shooting models in favor of other subject matter which costs less to shoot and yields higher returns, even though it may not be as fun to shoot.

That might be a good idea. I used to shoot landscapes, long exposures, and wild life before I got into portraits. That can satisfy the craving and take you out of a hole. I mean I love portraits but if you going to get yourself into trouble financially or go into debt then do something else. I found squirrels that gladly pose for me. I even put a little umbrella next to them to make them pop.

Shon D.- Femme wrote:
Right now, I wonder how you guys afford to pay models. I'm not trying to make this into a "photographers pay for x,y, and z and models DON'T" kind of a thread, but seriously. After paying for all the obvious stuff like my camera and my equipment, and then all the other things like studio rentals (which are fucking expensive) and ALL of the wardrobe since we have no stylists here, I literally have ZERO money left. And these are things that I cannot forgo. I have an aesthetic. I have a style. And that vision depends on my access to proper wardrobe and things like that. I'm afraid my quality of work will suffer with out it. I've never been one of those photographers who just have models show up with an outfit or two and hope for the best... Some models even charge for time spent in hair and makeup which, I can understand why on one hand. but on the other, it's like, we NEED that.

Anyway, I'm just wondering, for the photographers out there who are a one-man show like I am: how is it that you're able to afford to pay models and what can I do differently to be able to afford it?

I typically pay with travel and accommodations.. but in the end it's the same:

I have a day job that pays me alot of money.

GNapp Studios wrote:
run a workshop.

i'd rather have my fingernails pulled out with a rusty pliers than 'run a workshop'

RGKBoston wrote:
I make meth and sell it to middle schoolers....

You are not thinking profits.  try crack or coke.

Image Works 123 wrote:

That might be a good idea. I used to shoot landscapes, long exposures, and wild life before I got into portraits. That can satisfy the craving and take you out of a hole. I mean I love portraits but if you going to get yourself into trouble financially or go into debt then do something else. I found squirrels that gladly pose for me. I even put a little umbrella next to them to make them pop.

I think when one is wrapped up in a site called Model Mayhem, it can be easy to forget that models are but one of many subjects available and that other subjects may offer a better net profit.   Shoot what ever subject yields the best return.  For hobbyists that return may not be purely financial.

Peter Claver wrote:

I typically pay with travel and accommodations.. but in the end it's the same:

I have a day job that pays me alot of money.

Look at my post earlier in the thread. Even with a good job, would you have been able to spend $50,000 on model fees in less than 3 years?

Lumigraphics wrote:

Look at my post earlier in the thread. Even with a good job, would you have been able to spend $50,000 on model fees in less than 3 years?

I spent $30K on studio rental and model travel in 12 months.

So..

Yes.

MainePaintah wrote:
Budget.Save. Wear ripped t-shirts and 8 year old sneakers.Then sell a painting, hire a model. Repeat as needed!

Don't forget occasionally selling blood and more frequently working as a gigolo. The things I do for my "art" lol.

Shon D.- Femme wrote:
Some models even charge for time spent in hair and makeup which, I can understand why on one hand.

BTW, that should really be all models. Their rate starts from call time.

Though as others have pointed out, you shouldn't be paying models. Test with agency girls. If you're really far from any good agency, perhaps offer to pay for travel, but that's all.

Shon D.- Femme wrote:
Right now, I wonder how you guys afford to pay models. I'm not trying to make this into a "photographers pay for x,y, and z and models DON'T" kind of a thread, but seriously. After paying for all the obvious stuff like my camera and my equipment, and then all the other things like studio rentals (which are fucking expensive) and ALL of the wardrobe since we have no stylists here, I literally have ZERO money left. And these are things that I cannot forgo. I have an aesthetic. I have a style. And that vision depends on my access to proper wardrobe and things like that. I'm afraid my quality of work will suffer with out it. I've never been one of those photographers who just have models show up with an outfit or two and hope for the best... Some models even charge for time spent in hair and makeup which, I can understand why on one hand. but on the other, it's like, we NEED that.

Anyway, I'm just wondering, for the photographers out there who are a one-man show like I am: how is it that you're able to afford to pay models and what can I do differently to be able to afford it?

You should shift your business over from entertainment,  and treat it as a business.    I have been in business since the 50's.   I do commercial work,  that is  mail order catalogs.. for  hardware co.   clothing co.  Boats,  Airplanes  and on and on.   I do publicity photos for  entertainers.    Small part of my business is  portfolios  for up comming models .    Each and every job is a paying job.       Right now I am searching my file for a  negative of ad that includes a 3 year old girl and  a group of business machines..   It was shot 30 years ago  and they want a print to post at   the Wedding..   I probably will not charge for that print..   but that is a rare case...

photo_guru2 wrote:
start shooting male models ... models dont have to be female..,.

Yes! Please do, then magician your way up here

Shon D.- Femme wrote:
I realize that a lot of you do not pay models, so I'm really asking the photographers who DO pay.

Ideally, models would be falling over themselves to shoot with me and offering me heaps of money, especially given the situation- they walk on set and EVERYTHING is provided for them. All they have to do is show up. Anyway, THAT is not happening, and there's really a lot of models that I like, but a scarce amount that are relatively close to me (close as in like a 250 mile radius or so) and then an even smaller amount that are interested in trade.

You are good they should come to you. I have models come from NYC to shoot here and I'm in bumfuck nowhere they don't even ask for travel compensation.

Have you contacted any modeling agencies in your area? I have connections on 2 major agencies in this area and the agents are delighted when I contact them asking for models for my projects. I scratch their back they scratch mines.

Robert Sawin wrote:
I don't pay.  Its really all about a match thing and networking.  You are a good photographer so really good models should be coming your way.  If any thing new models should be paying you to have you build there ports. 

just my opinion

From a model's perspective, I also totally agree. You can find plenty of good models out there that are willing to do TF* shoots. I just feel that we [models+photogs] are both artists, most of us starving artists lol, so we should collaborate together to create images through symbiosis, not b/c ur coming out of ur pocket with money!!

photo_guru2 wrote:
start shooting male models ... models dont have to be female..,.

Tyler Brad wrote:
Yes! Please do, then magician your way up here

I really don't understand why people are assuming that I only shoot women. Is no one taking the time to actually look through my profile (in which I link my mens portfolio), my friendslist (in which I have said portfolio in my top friends spots), or my actual portfolio on this profile (which has men in it)?

A-M-P wrote:

You are good they should come to you. I have models come from NYC to shoot here and I'm in bumfuck nowhere they don't even ask for travel compensation.

Have you contacted any modeling agencies in your area? I have connections on 2 major agencies in this area and the agents are delighted when I contact them asking for models for my projects. I scratch their back they scratch mines.

Thanks! There are no major agencies near me. The closest big cities to me are Charlotte, NC, Washington DC, and NYC. I would like to shoot more there, but that in itself presents a whole other list of issues. I'm unfamiliar with the areas, so it's not like I know all the cool places to shoot offhand for outdoor stuff and the studio rentals are generally exponentially higher in bigger cities and all of that comes into play ASSUMING that the agencies like my work and want to send me their models.

I really do need work on those things, though, because it's looking like testing Agency models and and establishing relationships with out of town stylists and local boutiques is the way to go!

Shon D.- Femme wrote:
After paying for all the obvious stuff like my camera and my equipment, and then all the other things like studio rentals (which are fucking expensive) and ALL of the wardrobe since we have no stylists here, I literally have ZERO money left.

I hate this kind of logic.

So, you can spend tens of thousands of dollars on all the stuff that surrounds the model, that drapes the model, that lights the model, that records the light that bounces off the model, that makes the model look as good as possible, but you aren't willing to spend some pre-tax & tax deductible money on the central subject of your photography?  That's just bad budgeting.

While I have nothing against TF*, I will observe that not all models are created equal.  They vary greatly -- looks, talent, reliability, chemistry, experience, appeal.  The top models often can command modeling fees, and it is often the less appealing models who can't get paying jobs (although many top models will do an occasional TF*, too).

Let's not forget that for your average TF* arrangement:
...  The photographer retains the copyright,
...  The photographer chooses which images to edit,
...  The photographer chooses how many images to edit,
...  The photographer chooses whether to plaster his name (watermark) on the image.

One final thought:  if you want to improve your photography, one thing you can consider is working with people who are more skilled than you are, and yes, that sometimes means paying them.



In any case, how do I afford to pay models?  My photography brings in a little revenue, and I use that revenue to pay my photographic expenses, including modeling fees.  On my web site, visitors have the option of making donations "to the cause", and each year, I get enough to pay models, web hosting fees, software, props, etc.

Peter Claver wrote:
I typically pay with travel and accommodations.. but in the end it's the same:

I have a day job that pays me alot of money.

Lumigraphics wrote:
Look at my post earlier in the thread. Even with a good job, would you have been able to spend $50,000 on model fees in less than 3 years?

It is still less than 20k per year.  It is much less than off-shore sailing expense.

Looknsee Photography wrote:
I hate this kind of logic.

So, you can spend tens of thousands of dollars on all the stuff that surrounds the model, that drapes the model, that lights the model, that records the light that bounces off the model, that makes the model look as good as possible, but you aren't willing to spend some pre-tax & tax deductible money on the central subject of your photography?  That's just bad budgeting.

While I have nothing against TF*, I will observe that not all models are created equal.  They vary greatly -- looks, talent, reliability, chemistry, experience, appeal.  The top models often can command modeling fees, and it is often the less appealing models who can't get paying jobs (although many top models will do an occasional TF*, too).

Let's not forget that for your average TF* arrangement:
...  The photographer retains the copyright,
...  The photographer chooses which images to edit,
...  The photographer chooses how many images to edit,
...  The photographer chooses whether to plaster his name (watermark) on the image.

One final thought:  if you want to improve your photography, one thing you can consider is working with people who are more skilled than you are, and yes, that sometimes means paying them.



In any case, how do I afford to pay models?  My photography brings in a little revenue, and I use that revenue to pay my photographic expenses, including modeling fees.  On my web site, visitors have the option of making donations "to the cause", and each year, I get enough to pay models, web hosting fees, software, props, etc.

I'm not presenting any logic for you to hate. I'm not trying to justify a desire to NOT pay a model. In fact, the opposite is true. I was saying, "Hey I WANT to pay models." So let's not go down that path.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but please re-read and fully comprehend the OP before you reply. I made everything CLEAR.

Shon D.- Femme wrote:
Thanks! There are no major agencies near me. The closest big cities to me are Charlotte, NC, Washington DC, and NYC. I would like to shoot more there, but that in itself presents a whole other list of issues. I'm unfamiliar with the areas, so it's not like I know all the cool places to shoot offhand for outdoor stuff and the studio rentals are generally exponentially higher in bigger cities and all of that comes into play ASSUMING that the agencies like my work and want to send me their models.

I really do need work on those things, though, because it's looking like testing Agency models and and establishing relationships with out of town stylists and local boutiques is the way to go!

Shon, I feel for you, man. You work your ass off on all your stuff but the casting is a major hurdle, huh? Personally, from what I've learned (not saying I can do it) casting  and styling is everything. The face, the face, the face, the face . . . . Putting all your work into it but then shooting with a could-be-better face/model is really just a waste of time. Yeah, you're going to have to start building relationships with agencies, that's all there is to it. Best of luck, brother!

Shon D.- Homme wrote:
I'm not presenting any logic for you to hate. I'm not trying to justify a desire to NOT pay a model. In fact, the opposite is true. I was saying, "Hey I WANT to pay models." So let's not go down that path.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but please re-read and fully comprehend the OP before you reply. I made everything CLEAR.

And I'm just saying that if you can afford expensive cameras & studio time & computers & software, etc., you can budget ~1% - 5% of what you've already spent on modeling fees.

Looknsee Photography wrote:

And I'm just saying that if you can afford expensive cameras & studio time & computers & software, etc., you can budget ~1% - 5% of what you've already spent on modeling fees.

I'm always amazed at how many photographers are willing to spend thousands on bodies, lenses, lighting, computers, software, etc., but are unwilling to make any investment at all on one of the most important components, the subject of their images.  I don't pay models often, but if someone is in the area that is head and shoulders better than any of the many local models I can shoot trade with, I find a way to make time and dig up the money to work with them.  I want to make the best images I can.  Having the best possible subject is a pretty important part of that equation.  It's also nice to not have to provide any images, to be able to do whatever I want with the images, to be able to retouch them whenever I feel like it, to know the person is going to show up, etc.