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We need to change the rules...
Pixelbliss Studios wrote: If you want to "get paid a lot more money", then spend a lot LESS time on Model Mayhem. Sep 19 12 11:02 am Link POMERANTS PHOTOGRAPHY wrote: As a business, look at it this way. Sep 19 12 11:42 am Link rp_photo wrote: I have seen many become disillusioned with it because of the very reasons that have. Een pointed out in this forum. Expectations. Enjoy the game. Let it rock your world. Sep 19 12 11:48 am Link rp_photo wrote: The cost of doing business. Sep 19 12 11:50 am Link Many photographers and models are too focused on paying their bills. It's fine as far as it's not the highest priority. Remember, you're a photographer hired by yourself (your business) or somebody's else business. There is a conflict already. You could not be good in both mutually exclusive directions. Also, I think the key is always the cooperation of talents. Buying/borrowing a talent (a model or a photographer) for a shoot isn't enough for productive co-operation. Investing into developing/improving own skills ALWAYS pays back. Paying models or photographers? It depends. Sep 19 12 11:50 am Link This is a stupid topic and more of a  than anything so I am going to reply to it. It's pretty simple, supply and demand. Econ 101. You want models to pay you? Make a port full of pictures that models would like to be in. Increase the demand for what you supply. Sep 19 12 11:52 am Link That furnace guy scenario... holy cow. I started working in a meat plant when I was 12. This was around the time that there were 1 or 2 meat processing plants in just about every small town. A zillion years ago. One day I dropped a couple of ounces of ground meat on the floor as I was transporting a tub from one place to another. One of the owners saw this. He picked the meat up off of the floor, grabbed me and we walked over to a scale. He made me figure out the cost of that very small amount of meat. At that point in my meat career, I was hauling a lot of tubs of meat around. If I would drop that small amount of meat every time, several times a day... eventually it would add up. This was my introduction to business. The plant contained thousands and thousands of dollars worth of equipment and the people who worked there had decades and decades worth of experience. This did not mean we charged more or less than the guy in the next town. We charged what the market said was the norm. Maybe we had special prices for some of our super secret products, but I'm sure it was still not much different than anyone else. You provide a service. You own equipment to produce a product. You figure out overhead and your expenses. You make a profit. You use your profit to live and re-invest in your business. You are no more special than your competition down the road. You need to go to business school. Things don't really work the way you have described. Sep 19 12 11:52 am Link Good Egg Productions wrote: +1 Sep 19 12 12:01 pm Link If you build the skills, they will come, until that time, chill and enjoy youself, simples :-) Sep 19 12 12:07 pm Link Cherrybomb Photography wrote: Too Late Sep 19 12 12:09 pm Link Pixelbliss Studios wrote: Some people want it bad enough that they'll do what they gotta do. Sep 19 12 12:12 pm Link Why do you think all photographes approach models this way or that it's normal outside of MM? In the real world photographers are not the clients of models, we are hired by real clients. These same clients are the ones hiring models. Now in many cases we could be involve in the casting and we usually bring our team (MUA, Hair, Stylist) but that is really based on the job. As for our own portfolio building our best option is to build a relationship with an agency and trade our services for images they can use to market their talent. This gives us the option of barrowing a model for creative projects we may want to shoot. It's not uncommon for us to be paid a small testing fee but it's not really great money, it's more about access. Still we are not the models clients, we are both creative talent. We come here to meet and network, it's not a business site. Sep 19 12 12:19 pm Link What your doing is trying to compare two different skill sets, while interdependent upon one another are completely different, the whole apples to oranges thing. An experience model will and should cost money and will be worth every penny they're paid. The investment a model makes into their profession might not be tallied as an inventory checklist of assorted camera equipment, but there is an investment in themselves to develop their art, minds, and bodies be it with gym memberships, wardrobe, makeup, acting classes, etc. Quality cost money and quality has value as the saying goes you'll get what you pay for. Sep 19 12 12:20 pm Link I used to think this way, until one day I got a real critique from a real fashion photographer. They said, "Your lighting is great. However, you have two problems, your post sucks, and you need to stop taking pictures of those fat cowgirls you have in Phoenix." I realized in that moment that people can't get past the quality of the model to see my lighting (on a related note, they often can't get past the quality of the model to see bad lighting either...but in all cases you MUST have a good model). If you are equal in talent, you trade. If one is above the other, the lower one pays. I hope this helps. Sep 19 12 12:22 pm Link Pixelbliss Studios wrote: It's your bat, your ball and your ballpark so you go right ahead and change the rules. Sep 19 12 12:23 pm Link JoJo wrote: Wow a baseball analogy...cool....and good use... Sep 19 12 12:27 pm Link twoharts wrote: No. I was commenting on the OPs request to make that so Sep 19 12 12:40 pm Link Pixelbliss Studios wrote: Her/His looks? Gym membership, working out 4 - 8 times a week, that is anywhere from 16 - 32 hours a week so they will look the way you want. That, BTW, is a full time job for which you want Them to pay You. Sep 19 12 12:54 pm Link Pixelbliss Studios wrote: What if the Models "equipment" (Body, face, hair, teeth, nails, eyes) is better than your equipment (Camera and lights)? Since we know the model is always going to win in the equipment category, lets look at experience: If you have demonstratively more experience than the model, they should pay you. But if you don't have what it takes, then you will have to keep paying them until you learn enough from them that the tables turn. Sep 19 12 01:12 pm Link For a guy hoping to load up the wagon with support, he just got the worst 5 page ass kicking I've seen in a while. Tom just go have a beer and don't say anymore...it'll end sometime in the next week or so!  Sep 19 12 01:52 pm Link I support you on this OP. Unfortunately, some photographers just don't get it. This industry was very lucrative but Craigslist, MM, and other websites have killed the industry. I stopped doing TF a while ago. Not worth the time. Sep 19 12 02:20 pm Link Marty McBride wrote: And the book says, "We may be through with the thread, but the thread ain't through with us." Sep 19 12 02:20 pm Link me voy wrote: Which industry? The one where models pay photographers for photography? Sep 19 12 02:31 pm Link all i know is that if i start demanding cash, it's going to negatively impact the amount of time i'll get to spend hanging out with beautiful young women improving my skills as a photographer. no thanks. Sep 19 12 02:54 pm Link Good Egg Productions wrote: Model portfolios industry. 10 years ago I knew a lot of photographers that were charging $450.00 for 5 looks and they had a ton of models and actors ready for some photos. Now, models go to MM and Craigslist and get a SUCKER to do it for free. I can put you in a room full of successful photographers that had to adapt and moved on to other types of photography. Sep 19 12 03:03 pm Link me voy wrote: Right. I'm sure they get awesome stuff for nickles. Sep 19 12 03:09 pm Link bama beauties wrote: By your logic, I guess I'm just a button pusher, since I have no problem paying my bills, and I actually much prefer digital imaging. As far as I'm concerned, the more photographers, the merrier. The photography market will sort itself out. Pixelbliss Studios wrote: There are no "rules" to change. If a model or a photographer has something worth buying, someone will buy it, and sometimes that someone will be just starting out and building a portfolio. Instead of blaming some arbitrary "rule" (just as the poster above blames camera manufacturers), try fixing things at your own end. I suppose you could start by moving to another area where there are more "ugly" models that will pay you, or better yet, try getting clients that aren't models. Sep 19 12 03:11 pm Link bama beauties wrote: so by your logic we should ban micro-breweries, garage bands, home carpenters, garage mechanics and any other non professionals. Sep 19 12 03:22 pm Link Connor Photography wrote: lol Sep 19 12 03:27 pm Link I just have to laugh at the "photographers" who seem to think that since THEY picked up a camera and decided to make it their "profession" everyone else should just stop shooting and pay them.... Do something no one else can do, and you MIGHT get paid. Do the same thing ANYONE can do, and starve. Get used to the real world. The quality of your work is what will get you paid, coupled with a LOT of very hard work, and a smart head for business. You come on here and whine about the non-pros, the GWC's "ruining" your business..... You might want to think about what that says about your business model. LOL Sep 19 12 03:36 pm Link I see it another way, it is like he is stating that we are photographers just run after the models, that is why most of them putting that "Paid only" status, if we are photographers get paid as it should be then it will be the opposite side, the models will run after the photographers and willing to pay whatever. In my country, i see all models who works in a company or agency asking for paid only and never go with test/TF even the photographer is a professional, and if i want to build my portfolio then i must pay for them, but at the end i see paying them will not help me much to build portfolio to help me getting the place in market, and even i saw that most of them don't justify th payment, they do great job in modeling with only professional photographers, and me even i pay more than those professionals don't get the job from models for me, so how can i be a professional if even with payment i can't be there, and for how long i must pay the models so i can be in market shooting professionally? And honestly speaking, i see many models asking for payment and they don't act as models even the look is not so decent, as most of you said, it is not about the look only, well, even another aspect i can't see much, there are very few models who are deserved to be paid well, but those models are not having time for tests even paid, my wife and her sisters can be models because they are pretty good looking and they are great dancers, they can do modeling better and they have characteristics. I will pay for the models who don't wasting my time and money, not all models stating professional are right, maybe in my country the atmosphere for models is that all photographers here are rich and must pay, so rarely i can find models who go for free or test and so on, and honestly speaking, if a model pay me a money, then i will squeeze all my skills to make her very satisfied even the money she paid not not so good, in other hand, models must do their job if i will pay them decent budget, don't tell me they all do, no they don't. Sep 19 12 04:26 pm Link me voy wrote: There are still the photographeres earning that on model portfolio shoots, it hasn't changed. Sep 19 12 04:58 pm Link Marty McBride wrote: +1 Sep 19 12 05:07 pm Link rp_photo wrote: You or MM got the quoting mixed up. I didn't say that. Sep 19 12 05:21 pm Link if you feel your work is worth being paid for, then you should target models who are willing to pay for your services. Unless you were forced to pay some model, you should assess whether your approach is correct from a business perspective; since you mentioned cost of gear etc... These should be factored into your shoot rate. Other items to factor into your rate may include retouching fees, image license fees, travel fees, electricity, cell phone minutes, location scouting and shoot preparation, and consulting. Sep 19 12 05:33 pm Link Really dude? Sep 19 12 11:37 pm Link Pixelbliss Studios wrote: You should probably gain some experience before you make ignorant posts on a site dedicated to model photography. Just saying. Being a photographer is work. Modeling is work. Being good at one or the other deserves compensation. That can be money, time, images, or whatever. Most people will trade time(model) for images(photographer) = TF. It's really not that hard to understand is it? I think(know) what's happening is that you're having a hard time finding models to work with you and now you're crying out loud about....... wait for it...... changing the rules! Pixelbliss Studios wrote: The irony is hilarious. Sep 19 12 11:45 pm Link Ugh. I don't even know where to begin.  Sep 20 12 12:00 am Link P I X I E wrote: I do. Sep 20 12 12:10 am Link OP hasn't been back for a while .... ... may I now get the  out?Sep 20 12 12:26 am Link |
