R Byron Johnson wrote:
Why is it nearly always the woman who has to "discuss" what she wants to do, or even give it up, just to "respect" the man's irrational, dumbass feelings.

She's just posing for photos, it's not like she's doing boy on girl porn for chrissake.  Marriage is not a form of possession or control, or at least it shouldn't be.

There are just as many women complaining about what their men photographers will not give up too. This isn't a man or woman issue.

When you enter into a marriage you do give up some freedoms. I think one of the reasons we have a high divorce rate is because of the attitude of "screw what my spouse says, I'm going to do it anyway". If that is the attitude, and it is the advice that has been given in this thread, then one shouldn't be married to begin with. Trust and security start with respecting the wishes of your spouse, regardless of gender.

When these wishes and boundaries are outlined before hand, and the person CHOOSES to accept those boundaries, then there isn't much to complain about. The OP should have asked her husband about getting back into editorial or fashion modeling before hand, not after the fact. It comes across as sneaky which I think is the issue. I would say that if this were a male photographer who had agreed to not photograph models anymore and then sneaks around behind his wife's back and approaches models to shoot.

If you enjoy something and your significant other does not care for you doing it, the time to consider going farther in the relationship is before marriage. If you agree to those terms, then stick with it. If it's too much, the time to get out of the relationship is before marriage.

Revenge Photography wrote:
If he is getting bent out shape because you want to do a fully clothed editorial style shoot.

He's going to totally freak if/when you get knocked up and have to give birth.

Doubt it.

John Jebbia wrote:
I think she has a duty to obey her husband.

And if your wife or girlfriend told you to stop taking photos of models, should you obey her orders?
I always thought marriage was a partnership, not a dictatorship.

JonPhoto wrote:

There are just as many women complaining about what their men photographers will not give up too. This isn't a man or woman issue.

When you enter into a marriage you do give up some freedoms. I think one of the reasons we have a high divorce rate is because of the attitude of "screw what my spouse says, I'm going to do it anyway". If that is the attitude, and it is the advice that has been given in this thread, then one shouldn't be married to begin with. Trust and security start with respecting the wishes of your spouse, regardless of gender.

When these wishes and boundaries are outlined before hand, and the person CHOOSES to accept those boundaries, then there isn't much to complain about. The OP should have asked her husband about getting back into editorial or fashion modeling before hand, not after the fact. It comes across as sneaky which I think is the issue. I would say that if this were a male photographer who had agreed to not photograph models anymore and then sneaks around behind his wife's back and approaches models to shoot.

If you enjoy something and your significant other does not care for you doing it, the time to consider going farther in the relationship is before marriage. If you agree to those terms, then stick with it. If it's too much, the time to get out of the relationship is before marriage.

Eh, I disagree with your male/ female evaluation.

While I agree that many women have problems with their S/O's shooting other women (another thing I would say usually has a trust/ jealousy issue at the root), their rationalization is not the same.

His rationalization is this:

AmieS wrote:
Well im home and heres the scoop... he said hes "not into that kind of stuff and he admitten that 65% is jealosy but.. hes my husband and head of our home. . If he says no or doesnt want me doing it I need to re spect that. I said well im not twlling u not to do fire ems thats your dream .... he said he just dont want me doing sonething thats a waste of time. We have to pay gas to get to the shoot etc... and if I dont get any paid gigs its another waste... idk im not happy at all I said I would never do lingerie or nude again and im not but I never said id never do it meaning model again I just stopped persuing it. Grrrrrrrr

That makes it pretty centered around the fact he is a male.

Definitely not putting this on all guys, but when he makes it clear that he thinks there should be male dominance, it's another issue.

K I C K H A M wrote:

JonPhoto wrote:
There are just as many women complaining about what their men photographers will not give up too. This isn't a man or woman issue.

When you enter into a marriage you do give up some freedoms. I think one of the reasons we have a high divorce rate is because of the attitude of "screw what my spouse says, I'm going to do it anyway". If that is the attitude, and it is the advice that has been given in this thread, then one shouldn't be married to begin with. Trust and security start with respecting the wishes of your spouse, regardless of gender.

When these wishes and boundaries are outlined before hand, and the person CHOOSES to accept those boundaries, then there isn't much to complain about. The OP should have asked her husband about getting back into editorial or fashion modeling before hand, not after the fact. It comes across as sneaky which I think is the issue. I would say that if this were a male photographer who had agreed to not photograph models anymore and then sneaks around behind his wife's back and approaches models to shoot.

If you enjoy something and your significant other does not care for you doing it, the time to consider going farther in the relationship is before marriage. If you agree to those terms, then stick with it. If it's too much, the time to get out of the relationship is before marriage.

Eh, I disagree with your male/ female evaluation.

While I agree that many women have problems with their S/O's shooting other women (another thing I would say usually has a trust/ jealousy issue at the root), their rationalization is not the same.

His rationalization is this:


That makes it pretty centered around the fact he is a male.

Definitely not putting this on all guys, but when he makes it clear that he thinks there should be male dominance, it's another issue.

That's somewhat sexist don't you think?

Personally I think its because he is a control freak, they come in both sexes.

Revenge Photography wrote:

That's somewhat sexist don't you think?

Personally I think its because he is a control freak, they come in both sexes.

Not really. There is actually a pretty clear distinction.

In a "normal" relationship (what I consider when the parties see themselves as equals), if one is making demands and expects the partner to listen, because they are controlling, it is a bit easier to explain the logic. "Look, I can't demand you to things, and you can't do that to me either. We are equals."

He has flat-out stated that he believes marriages should be run in the traditional patriarchal fashion. It DOES make it different.

Again, I'm not placing this on all guys. Actually, I know very few guys who think like this. However, it's an issue that is pretty exclusive to guys because they have thousands of years of history backing it up.

K I C K H A M wrote:

JonPhoto wrote:
There are just as many women complaining about what their men photographers will not give up too. This isn't a man or woman issue.

When you enter into a marriage you do give up some freedoms. I think one of the reasons we have a high divorce rate is because of the attitude of "screw what my spouse says, I'm going to do it anyway". If that is the attitude, and it is the advice that has been given in this thread, then one shouldn't be married to begin with. Trust and security start with respecting the wishes of your spouse, regardless of gender.

When these wishes and boundaries are outlined before hand, and the person CHOOSES to accept those boundaries, then there isn't much to complain about. The OP should have asked her husband about getting back into editorial or fashion modeling before hand, not after the fact. It comes across as sneaky which I think is the issue. I would say that if this were a male photographer who had agreed to not photograph models anymore and then sneaks around behind his wife's back and approaches models to shoot.

If you enjoy something and your significant other does not care for you doing it, the time to consider going farther in the relationship is before marriage. If you agree to those terms, then stick with it. If it's too much, the time to get out of the relationship is before marriage.

Eh, I disagree with your male/ female evaluation.

While I agree that many women have problems with their S/O's shooting other women (another thing I would say usually has a trust/ jealousy issue at the root), their rationalization is not the same.

His rationalization is this:


That makes it pretty centered around the fact he is a male.

Definitely not putting this on all guys, but when he makes it clear that he thinks there should be male dominance, it's another issue.

We are getting her side of the story, not his. Unless he comes on this thread and explains his side, I'm not going to make a judgement about his intentions. It's sexist of you say it's a male thing.

From what we know of the OP, she told him she would stop modeling. Then she says what i really meant was I would give up nude and lingerie. This isn't a male dominance thing. It's a trust thing.

K I C K H A M wrote:

Not really. There is actually a pretty clear distinction.

In a "normal" relationship (what I consider when the parties see themselves as equals), if one is making demands and expects the partner to listen, because they are controlling, it is a bit easier to explain the logic. "Look, I can't demand you to things, and you can't do that to me either. We are equals."

He has flat-out stated that he believes marriages should be run in the traditional patriarchal fashion. It DOES make it different.

Again, I'm not placing this on all guys. Actually, I know very few guys who think like this. However, it's an issue that is pretty exclusive to guys because they have thousands of years of history backing it up.

Lets take it on face value then. She agreed to this before getting married and knew his outlook on things. Having a change of heart AFTER is the wrong time. This still goes back to choose modeling as a hobby or choose husband.

JonPhoto wrote:

We are getting her side of the story, not his. Unless he comes on this thread and explains his side, I'm not going to make a judgement about his intentions. It's sexist of you say it's a male thing.

From what we know of the OP, she told him she would stop modeling. Then she says what i really meant was I would give up nude and lingerie. This isn't a male dominance thing. It's a trust thing.

When I'm giving someone advice, I go off the notion that they've given me correct information. Otherwise there is no point.

It's not sexist of me. As I explained multiple times, it isn't the fact that he is being *controlling* that is a predominantly a male issue. Controlling people are everywhere and of every kind. It is the fact that he is backing it up by saying that he's the head of the household, so she needs to listen to him.

He is the man in the relationship, so his wishes are the important ones. Again, I don't think the majority of men think this, by any means, but I DO think that the majority of people who think this are men.

JonPhoto wrote:

Lets take it on face value then. She agreed to this before getting married and knew his outlook on things. Having a change of heart AFTER is the wrong time. This still goes back to choose modeling as a hobby or choose husband.

Oh, I definitely agree that these things should be sorted out before marriage. Then again, if she didn't know she'd want to get back into modeling, why would she has pushed the issue?

Anywho, I see a lot of people saying that you need to choose one or the other. My only reason for coming and giving advice is to make sure she's done everything possible *before* having to make that ultimatum.

Sometimes there's no other way, but sometimes there is.

K I C K H A M wrote:

When I'm giving someone advice, I go off the notion that they've given me correct information. Otherwise there is no point.

It's not sexist of me. As I explained multiple times, it isn't the fact that he is being *controlling* that is a predominantly a male issue. Controlling people are everywhere and of every kind. It is the fact that he is backing it up by saying that he's the head of the household, so she needs to listen to him.

He is the man in the relationship, so his wishes are the important ones. Again, I don't think the majority of men think this, by any means, but I DO think that the majority of people who think this are men.

I generally don't trust the info at face value when they say one thing and then admit this is what I really meant to someone else.

If things are at face value, both sexes will rationale to justify their postions. It isn't a "male dominance" thing. If he is a control freak, that is just a card he is paying.

JonPhoto wrote:

I generally don't trust the info at face value when they say one thing and then admit this is what I really meant to someone else.

If things are at face value, both sexes will rationale to justify their postions. It isn't a "male dominance" thing. If he is a control freak, that is just a card he is paying.

That's possible, definitely.

But I'm from Oklahoma, and it's not that abnormal in some places in the state to actually think, speak and believe this line of logic.

The fact is, we can't know all the facts about someone else's situation. You can either respond under the pretense of "If what you say is true..." or you can respond saying "I think this may be what's really happening, and if so, this is my advice."

Then, hopefully the person asking will read through it and see all the different sides and make a decision.

K I C K H A M wrote:
Oh, I definitely agree that these things should be sorted out before marriage. Then again, if she didn't know she'd want to get back into modeling, why would she has pushed the issue?

Anywho, I see a lot of people saying that you need to choose one or the other. My only reason for coming and giving advice is to make sure she's done everything possible *before* having to make that ultimatum.

Sometimes there's no other way, but sometimes there is.

If she wanted to get back into modeling, then she should have asked before approaching photographers. This is called being respectful to your spouse. I would say this to a male as well. The attitude "Ask for forgiveness, not permission" does not work well in a marriage.

I guess I'm wondering what other options are there? This is something they have discussed for 4 years? I just don't think there is any advice we can give to change his mind.

K I C K H A M wrote:

That's possible, definitely.

But I'm from Oklahoma, and it's not that abnormal in some places in the state to actually think, speak and believe this line of logic.

The fact is, we can't know all the facts about someone else's situation. You can either respond under the pretense of "If what you say is true..." or you can respond saying "I think this may be what's really happening, and if so, this is my advice."

Then, hopefully the person asking will read through it and see all the different sides and make a decision.

I'm from Alabama so I understand the reasoning too. If this is the way he thinks, she knew going into the marriage this is the way things are. You do not go into a marriage thinking I will change the persons attitude or hope it changes later on.

AmieS wrote:
Again as stated before.. i never told him i was done.. he only asked i not do nudes or lingerie if i did anymore.. and that i was not looking for any more work at the time... this shoot im looking at is NOT nude at all.

Hello Amie,

What are you looking for?

Our approval to go ahead and do the shoot (risking your mariage).
Us saying, don't its not worth it?...

You state, that at your age modeling should be over... I disagree... You are gorgeous as you are, no matter your age.

But in the end it is your choice.

Do you want to make you husband happy... than don't model
Do you want to make yourself happy... then.....

In the end, it is YOU you have to live with 'till the end of time.
What strong arguments other than age, being a mother is your husband bringing to the table... In the end it is your live.
Even if you would be doing nudes... Is he ashamed of you?, jelous? Afraid of "bad" photographers? could it harm his or your career?...

Get your arguments together... In the end it is your choice...and your choice alone.

John Jebbia wrote:

John Jebbia wrote:
Why not?

It's in the vows.

Is it?

Back to the OP. This in my opinion boils down to a matter of trust. From what the OP has written it looks to me as if the husband has mistaken the marriage certificate as a contract of ownership. It may have been that in the Middle Ages but I was under the impression that the emancipation of women had moved on somewhat since then.
We here can give opinion but opinions differ so the final decision lies firmly with the OP and no one else.

JonPhoto wrote:

I'm from Alabama so I understand the reasoning too. If this is the way he thinks, she knew going into the marriage this is the way things are. You do not go into a marriage thinking I will change the persons attitude or hope it changes later on.

I agree with you, with the small change of, "You shouldn't go into a marriage thinking I will change the persons attitude or hope it changes later on."

John Malloch Caldwell wrote:

Is it?

Back to the OP. This in my opinion boils down to a matter of trust. From what the OP has written it looks to me as if the husband has mistaken the marriage certificate as a contract of ownership. It may have been that in the Middle Ages but I was under the impression that the emancipation of women had moved on somewhat since then.
We here can give opinion but opinions differ so the final decision lies firmly with the OP and no one else.

That is harsh to say the husband believes this is a contract of ownership and comes across like a White Knight. When you marry, you give up certain freedoms for the betterment of We. This goes both ways. We only know her side of the story.

JonPhoto wrote:
Let's take the fishing analogy farther. I doubt things would go well in the marriage if the husband went fishing all the time if the wife didn't want him going as much. Suppose he was an avid angler and part of the terms of getting married was he was supposed to stop going as much. They marry and then he goes back to fishing more. He goes on a local fishing forum and asks his buddies about how to deal with a controlling wife who won't let him go fishing. Who is really controlling if someone backs out of an agreement?

I think you may be missing my point.  They both are, using different methods.  As I said, she married him, and as Kelli said in response to my post, the issue is the marriage rather than the modeling. This is about more than the freedom to do what she wants, it's about power. 

That's why I said it's time to get real - whatever their relationship was seemingly based on, this issue is now making it apparent that there were things that should have been on the table when they made their agreement, but weren't.  Time to deal with it.

However, as you say, it works both ways and we only have her side of the story.  But that doesn't change his ultimatum about being head of the household (if he did in fact say that) and the issues that causes in her relationship with him.  The fishing example was to point that out as well as to illustrate that it works both ways.

Lumatic wrote:

I think you may be missing my point.  They both are, using different methods.  As I said, she married him, and as Kelli said in response to my post, the issue is the marriage rather than the modeling. This is about more than the freedom to do what she wants, it's about power. 

That's why I said it's time to get real - whatever their relationship was seemingly based on, this issue is now making it apparent that there were things that should have been on the table when they made their agreement, but weren't.  Time to deal with it.

However, as you say, it works both ways and we only have her side of the story.  But that doesn't change his ultimatum about being head of the household (if he did in fact say that) and the issues that causes in her relationship with him.  The fishing example was to point that out as well as to illustrate that it works both ways.

I'm not missing the point. This is a power struggle with both of them.

The point I am making is she knew ahead of time in regards to his beliefs about modeling and his views on marriage. Now, after they are married, she doesn't like it. If she didn't know his views, it isn't his fault unless he lied about his views just to marry her.

I ask the question, if she accepted his beliefs and views going into the marriage, why is the husband the bad guy in this situation now that she has changed her mind?

JonPhoto wrote:
I'm not missing the point. This is a power struggle with both of them.

The point I am making is she knew ahead of time in regards to his beliefs about modeling and his views on marriage. Now, after they are married, she doesn't like it. If she didn't know his views, it isn't his fault unless he lied about his views just to marry her.

Then we agree on that.

JonPhoto wrote:
I ask the question, if she accepted his beliefs and views going into the marriage, why is the husband the bad guy in this situation now that she has changed her mind?

Others may be saying he's the bad guy, but I didn't.  What I did was point out his apparent disposition.  I have no idea what beliefs and views she accepted going in,  but it's evident that something didn't get communicated well enough by either one of them.

Considering the rate of failed marriages, that's clearly nothing new.

AmieS wrote:
So what do you do when you have been modeling for years, and your just got married and the guy wants to go with you to shoots, know how much your paid.. and if you get travel etc.. you understand as the model but they guy is totally clueless and because of that he says no you cant do it.... what then?

Looks like you made a bad choice.

AmieS wrote:
So what do you do when you have been modeling for years, and your just got married and the guy wants to go with you to shoots, know how much your paid.. and if you get travel etc.. you understand as the model but they guy is totally clueless and because of that he says no you cant do it.... what then?

I haven't had a chance to read through all the replies and really not going to, but here's my personal opinion...

At this point it seems there's a serious communication error it needs to be worked on early in the relationship. If you got married and your new husband is just NOW finding out about the details of the modeling...you've got some challenges ahead.

How will you possibly address the issues, and what should you consider?

1. He wants to go with you to shoots: well most photographers have a no escort policy, so you'll limit the work you can do if you take him with you, but your marriage will suffer if you don't. It's called compromise...tell him that the photographer has a small studio and only those directly involved can be in the studio, but he can wait for you in the car or lobby if there is one (make sure to tell the photog beforehand that you'll be bringing someone along)

2. He wants to know how much your paid: personally I think couples shouldn't hide things like these from each other and should talk about it. One of the main causes for divorce is $$$ Tell him how it works, how the pay is set up.

3. Travel: again straight forward, talk about it...maybe try to plan anything you have to travel to on weekends and bring him along, you can make a little vacation out of it on off time.

4. He doesn't want you to do it:  here's where it gets tricky...if he knew about it beforehand and didn't have an issue with it until you got married, then I see some manipulation there, but I don't know enough to say. If he didn't know about it, then it's your bad for not sharing but you can still make him feel comfortable about it by involving him, show him proofs, ask for his opinion. If he still doesn't want you to do then you need to think about what makes you happier and what's more important...modeling or your husband.

I say this as someone who's been married, divorced and now happily married with someone who fully supports my modeling because I'm completely forthcoming about every aspect of it and because he knows it makes me happy and my happiness is his priority. End of the day that's what marriage is about happiness.

K I C K H A M wrote:

JonPhoto wrote:
There are just as many women complaining about what their men photographers will not give up too. This isn't a man or woman issue.

When you enter into a marriage you do give up some freedoms. I think one of the reasons we have a high divorce rate is because of the attitude of "screw what my spouse says, I'm going to do it anyway". If that is the attitude, and it is the advice that has been given in this thread, then one shouldn't be married to begin with. Trust and security start with respecting the wishes of your spouse, regardless of gender.

When these wishes and boundaries are outlined before hand, and the person CHOOSES to accept those boundaries, then there isn't much to complain about. The OP should have asked her husband about getting back into editorial or fashion modeling before hand, not after the fact. It comes across as sneaky which I think is the issue. I would say that if this were a male photographer who had agreed to not photograph models anymore and then sneaks around behind his wife's back and approaches models to shoot.

If you enjoy something and your significant other does not care for you doing it, the time to consider going farther in the relationship is before marriage. If you agree to those terms, then stick with it. If it's too much, the time to get out of the relationship is before marriage.

Eh, I disagree with your male/ female evaluation.

While I agree that many women have problems with their S/O's shooting other women (another thing I would say usually has a trust/ jealousy issue at the root), their rationalization is not the same.

His rationalization is this:


That makes it pretty centered around the fact he is a male.

Definitely not putting this on all guys, but when he makes it clear that he thinks there should be male dominance, it's another issue.

Is the bolded her or him saying that? Or both?

Seniorbrucio wrote:

Is the bolded her or him saying that? Or both?

While her writing is a little hard to follow there, it sounds to me like that's what he said, and she responded saying she wouldn't get in the way of him doing what he wants to do.

K I C K H A M wrote:

While her writing is a little hard to follow there, it sounds to me like that's what he said, and she responded saying she wouldn't get in the way of him doing what he wants to do.

I see it as her opinion. And frankly its not surprising.

Like attracts like.

Viator-Defessus Photos wrote:
I guess this is tangential to to the discussion and the "real issue" here, however he does realize that you have already modeled in lingerie and nude, right? He is aware of the fact that your nude/semi-nude image is already out there and view-able by the world and that it is beyond your power or his to change that at this point? That ship has sailed. No changing it now. Even if you never do it again, it's done. He should have come to terms with that before marrying you. Your nude image was NEVER going to be "for his eyes only." That was decided before you even met him.

Unless this guy is not thinking rationally this can't be about pictures. This has to be about you doing something beyond his control/influence or about him not trusting you to not have sex or about him not trusting the people you're working with/your ability to vet them. This just can't be about pictures/people seeing you. That would make no sense.

I love how you used the word "Tangential"...nice.

John Jebbia wrote:
I think she has a duty to obey her husband.

Are you kidding me! She needs to make a decision, but to simply obey your husband at the cost of what you love is an unequal relationship.

I think she needs to find what her husbands passion and tell him he has to give it up!  Then let's see what he does

K I C K H A M wrote:

When I'm giving someone advice, I go off the notion that they've given me correct information. Otherwise there is no point.

It's not sexist of me. As I explained multiple times, it isn't the fact that he is being *controlling* that is a predominantly a male issue. Controlling people are everywhere and of every kind. It is the fact that he is backing it up by saying that he's the head of the household, so she needs to listen to him.

He is the man in the relationship, so his wishes are the important ones. Again, I don't think the majority of men think this, by any means, but I DO think that the majority of people who think this are men.

+1000.   This unfortunately stems from a patriarchal bible verse , but it feeds into mans insecurity and his need to control.

It's all bullshit!!!  He needs to listen to his wife, he needs to allow her to follow her passion, at anytime, on or off and any age.

I would not let anyone get in the way of my passion for photography not my wife of 32 years, not my 2 daughters, not my job. 

That is why we are artists, we can think of nothing more important than what we create and that we find an audience to see it

K I C K H A M wrote:
They'll look at you while you're grocery shopping.

True story. I can't get through the produce section without getting hit on. -_-

K I C K H A M wrote:
They'll look at you while you're grocery shopping.

Rachel-Elise  wrote:
True story. I can't get through the produce section without getting hit on. -_-

Perhaps if you didn't grocery shop dressed like this: