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Are pre-shoot meetings actually just a coffee date
Hey, So I work with agencies and also freelance. Am I the only one that finds pre-shoot coffee dates odd? If I get booked through my agency there is no meeting the creative team beforehand as that takes time and time = money. It's one thing to verify I am real over a telephone call or social media which I am totally okay with, but the whole pre-shoot to see if we "like each other" or "discuss ideas" just smacks of a male photographer 20-40 years older than me trying to get me out on a date with the facade of it being necessary for the shoot. I'm not trying to be rude, I just feel like photographers are trying to take advantage of a young girl tbh. Thoughts everyone?? Jan 06 19 04:59 pm Link Side note: The last time I agreed to one, I arrived to meet the photographer (a male much older than me). He proceeded to tell me he actually wanted me to do a NUDE YOGA shoot. He also said he wanted to take me shopping to buy lingerie for the shoot, despite it being a nude shoot??? Needless to say, I never worked with him and my time was wasted. Though, the free Starbucks was nice XD Can anyone else relate to this? Jan 06 19 05:04 pm Link You are way too young for me but I wouldn't mind a coffee date with your grandmother. Jan 06 19 05:06 pm Link I just had a meet and greet today and it was on the model's request. It was great and refreshing to actually meet someone as a human being prior to setting up a shoot. We talked about the shoot and photography and science. I'm glad that we did so when we have our shoot next week, it'll feel like someone I know and not some stranger I just met. Jan 06 19 05:08 pm Link Coffee is good, sorry that Your meeting didn't go well. I try to meet prior to the first shoot with all of the Models I work with, they've mostly been non-agency represented and if they show there's a greater possibility they will show for the session. It also helps break ice. I would view the experience this way, You found out prior to being on set that You would not want to work with the Photographer in a neutral location. Jan 06 19 05:16 pm Link I don't like to meet up prior to a shoot just because it is more (unpaid) time out of my already extremely busy schedule. I'm also not super chatty. Generally I find that all of the information regarding the shoot that I need can be acquired over email. I have never felt like it was a date though. Maybe you just met up with a GWC and it would have been creepy regardless. But since you didn't do the shoot, perhaps the meet up was useful to you after all? You found out that you didn't like him before you took your clothes off? Jan 06 19 05:24 pm Link OP, For the past 25 years ive made it a standard practice to have a pre-shoot meeting with everyone with whom I've worked. It doesn't matter what genre or reason we're shooting, if I haven't met you before, a pre-shoot meeting in a public place such as a coffe shop, restaurant, etc is mandatory, no exceptions. If we've worked together previously, we may be able to plan a shoot via email, sending each other ideas on which to develop concepts. I even encourage people to bring a friend with them to the meeting and will pay for any beverages (coffee, tea, soft drinks - never alcohol) we consume. It's called being polite, nothing more. For those who say they're too busy for a pre-shoot meeting, I wish them well and move on to working with others who grasp the concept behind the meeting. Life is too short for drama. My logic is it's much better to find out about some incompatibility at a pre-shoot meeting than to spend the time, money and effort setting up a shoot. I would think that a model's point of view would be similar and most of those I meet understand and support my methodology. When you work with professionals, the conversation will, for the most part, remain on business. There's nothing wrong with discussing the weather or some news event while you're waiting for drinks or food to arrive. It's a common practice for breaking the ice and developing a rapport with clients but there's boundaries that should never be crossed. I believe if you wouldn't discuss something in a meeting at any other job, why discuss it at a pre-shoot meeting. That's just simple respect. The people you meet who use photography as a means of meeting women are no different than those who use other activities to meet women. Unfortunately, it happens every day and everywhere men and women come into contact. It's those fauxtographers who give everyone who enjoys creating images a bad name. Grouping all photographers into one bunch because of the behavior of one or even a few makes as much sense as doing the same to models, MUAs or any other category of people. It's just wrong to do so. Jan 06 19 05:31 pm Link It's not unusual for me to drive 300-500, even 1000, miles to shoot with people in a different city. To expect a pre-shoot meet up, when I may be in one state one day, then 3 states away the next, is simply impossible. Jan 06 19 05:31 pm Link I am perplexed when I get messages like that, as well. I just got a message like that tonight. I replied asking if he would like to do a voice call via Skype (that way, he doesn't have my phone number and we can discuss the shoot). I'm not going to travel to meet a stranger. Discussing a photoshoot can be done via a phone call. There is no need to meet. If the guy you're talking about continues to insist on meeting, then I agree with you that he might just want to hang out with you under the guise of it being about a shoot. They might try to threaten you by saying that if you don't meet them, then they won't shoot - that is your red flag that he has ulterior motives or is not serious about a shoot. There are a lot of predators that pose as photographers. Please be careful. Jan 06 19 05:32 pm Link Not at all, at least not for me. I want to find out if you are capable of showing up on time before I go to the trouble of setting up for a shoot. BTW, I'm not 20-40 years older than the OP. I'm 52 years older. And I have zero interest in any sort of romantic relationship with a 19 year old. Jan 06 19 05:38 pm Link I've never requested a pre-shoot meeting. However, when a model asks to meet, I always accept. It doesn't happen very often, but a few times over the years, most definitely. Professional nude models have never asked for a meeting. It's mostly first timers, or models who normally would not shoot nude, but like my work enough to try. It's a comfort thing, and I'm fine with that. Jan 06 19 05:43 pm Link Victoria Morrisa wrote: It amazes me that a model won't meet a photographer for a pre-shoot meeting but will show up at a location they've never been to before to shoot with someone they've never met. Jan 06 19 05:43 pm Link Michael DBA Expressions wrote: +1000 Jan 06 19 05:44 pm Link Todd Meredith wrote: This conversation isn't about someone wanting to meet for safety. It's about meeting with someone to discuss the shoot beforehand. Jan 06 19 06:03 pm Link Taylor Kate f wrote: Your bio currently states "Paid Assignments Only ... No Nudes". So with all the other pre-checks you can do beforehand, it surprises me to think that this 'nude yoga' photographer actually made it as far as getting you to agree to a meet-and-greet over a coffee. Jan 06 19 06:46 pm Link Redacted ( one of my New Years Resolutions is to try and be a nicer person )  You are an interesting young woman Jan 06 19 07:22 pm Link Taylor Kate f wrote: *I never meet my models before a shoot..I have all my models come to me anyways...so I can usually just tell the model everything I am hoping for in several emails, before our shoot...!!…I can tell from an email....if the model sounds flakey or insincere....The serious models...email right back, don't wait long periods of time in between emails and they let me know...they are coming 'for sure'...I don't need them to prove it...(or that we are comfortable with each other)...or whatever else.....by meeting me for coffee beforehand..!!...We can hash anything out....pro or con....in an email...and since they are relying on me for the overall look...styling, make-up etc....I don't need their input on what we will be shooting, prior to the shoot, as that is already established...!!...In all the years of shooting...it's only been a super small handful of times, that a model hasn't shown up....and I just look at it as the models loss, because I won't book with her/him again..!!...Because they are coming to me...if they don't show up....I just continue my day..!!...I like to shoot often....so there isn't a lot of time to do pre shoot meetings for anyone, as I am busy doing other things getting ready for the shoot...I know myself and my models appreciate that it's not a requirement...It's never been an issue, really..!! Jan 06 19 07:26 pm Link I appreciate the response from the models. I am someone whom is very new to pursuing this type photographic interest. I kinda thought it took some rapport to go beyond just a product photo session. I work in my professional life ( I am by no means a pro-photographer) with a variety of different people but I do basically the same thing for all of them and I will say that I always do a meet up before any kind of agreements are signed,this allows us to determine if we are people that can actually work together I know before hand that I am capable of doing the job but the way people interact with each other I believe does impact the finial outcome that can take things to the next level. Which I do think has a better chance of coming to fruition with a bit of prior knowledge. Having said all of that I also need to say that I am one of those older guys that thinks having a twenty something year old girl friend would be up there with having two or three wives. PASS! Jan 06 19 07:52 pm Link I find planning meetings to be essential to determine if we agree on concepts, clothing, styling. and terms to make a trade shoot work for me. Critically I get to determine if you actually look like your photos and confirm that you are reliable enough for me to invest my time and $$$ in a full shoot. If the model doesn't have the right clothing for a shoot, then I need to plan to get it. This is less of a concern if we have met, you are an agency model, and if you are under 25. I would far prefer a wasted 30 minute planing meeting rather than a wasted 4 hour photo shoot. As an agency model though, there should be plenty of recommendations from your agents and the photographers you have already worked with to find good trade shoots to build your portfolio. If you are getting enough work and portfolio photos from your multiple agencies, then I would not spend much time with other freelancers. If you add to your profile that "you will never shoot topless or nudes" then hopefully you will get slightly less bait and switch offers for nude work. Jan 06 19 08:29 pm Link Over the years several models have requested Pre-shoot meetups. Startbucks is the normal meeting spot since NYC has them on almost every corner. Was I so naïve to not realize these meetups were just disguised coffee dates ? Jan 06 19 08:36 pm Link meeting for coffee? I have had met people to discuss the sitting, but nothing personal? I would be leery? Jan 06 19 08:38 pm Link Julietsdream wrote: Apart from myself, I usually team up with a professional Hair Stylist and Makeup Artist, we all stand to loose time, money and income if a model doesn't show for a shoot. Jan 06 19 08:48 pm Link Victoria Morrisa wrote: I believe you missed the point. Jan 07 19 12:31 am Link This is another of those topics that has come up a thousand times. My attitude used to be, coffee meet always. It was primarily to see if the person would show up. Secondarily to see if we would get along. And thirdly to discuss what concepts we might plan out. I find that I do not get my ideas across in emails, or tweets. However, this has now become an off and on thing. Half hour discussing over coffee, days before has always been more productive than half hour at the beginning of the shoot At the shoot it feels rushed. I shoot trade, so I like to bounce ideas back and forth. If I were paying, then it is my ideas, so discussion not necessary. I have done it with agency models, kind of a "go see", with dancers and local MM types. It has never been a waste of time, but also not always necessary. Thus it is now an off and on thing. If the model is known to me, then the reliability factor is not an issue. Once it it turned out that I did not like the models attitude and we cancelled, and once a model decided we would not work well. Also very useful to go through each others portfolios. Back in the day when it was mostly print, but still works even now when it is all digital. More than once when seeing the model and her stuff and some talk, we planned to go in a totally different direction then originally discussed.. Easier to change direction a week ahead then 30sec ahead. I can shift gears on the spot, but prefer not to. Jan 07 19 01:10 am Link Taylor Kate f wrote: I remember suggesting pre shoot coffee meets to 4 or 5 models about 5 years ago. Zero interest. So i focus on the shoot and life is better. Jan 07 19 01:11 am Link I've never had a pre-shoot meeting with a model but I have been to dinner with a model. She asked. Jan 07 19 01:11 am Link Jerry Nemeth wrote: Was it a pre-shoot dinner invitation to see if you "like each other" or to "discuss ideas"? Jan 07 19 01:55 am Link Taylor Kate f wrote: Well, if that's honestly how you feel about photographers, that is kind of rude. Jan 07 19 02:04 am Link Garry k wrote: Redacted Jan 07 19 02:30 am Link Camera Buff wrote: *Especially when my model(s) know, if there will be a MUAH there....they usually show up...lol.......!! Jan 07 19 04:24 am Link I usually don't have a coffee meet with models, as I am working mostly on order by either agencies, magazines, designers or other industry people. I also get hired to shoot model portfolios in my fashion editorial style. However, I have been approached by the occasional model that wants to shoot with me and asks for trade. Right now, I was approached by a singer, that recently performed at Carnegie Hall, via a recommendation by a photographer friend, to work with her for a set. I am actually contemplating a "coffee date" with her, to see what she has in mind, because she also will provide makeup artist and hair stylist. Then I am seeing this thread and the model's responses and I am confused. Never thought of coming off as a middle aged creep until now. Professionally... she approached me, she has some gowns and a designer, and I just don't see anything wrong with meeting prior to the shoot to discuss ideas, concepts and logistics. This is starting to become a world I am not familiar with anymore. Weird! Jan 07 19 04:54 am Link Camera Buff wrote: We were hungry. It was to eat dinner. Jan 07 19 05:04 am Link I'm open to the idea of a preshoot meetup but that in it's self is a yellow flag for me. I don't have to like somebody to work with them. The only time I've met with somebody before a shoot, it was somebody that had never modeled before. Email works fine. Jan 07 19 05:04 am Link In over 15 years of shooting with models, I've never had, or wanted to have , a pre shoot meeting. I style most of my shoots, so I know what we will be shooting. If the model has some ideas after we have exchanged emails about the shoot, I'll incorporate those ideas as well. There is plenty of time while the model is putting on MU or working with a MUA for us to establish rapport and talk about what each of us expects to get from the shoot. I often shoot with traveling models and they seem to be perpetually on the go and have no time for an unpaid meeting for coffee. Some of them I have hosted, and even then, a quick shared dinner is about all the time they have to spare. I shoot out of my home, so if a model doesn't show up, happened only once, I have plenty of things to occupy my time. Jan 07 19 06:10 am Link I don't request them but would nosier it if the model requested it. I can see both sides. Photographers often complain about no show models, which usually does not apply to agency models. Many photographers have up front expenses to rent a studio etc which is wasted if the model doesn't show and while no guarantee that they will show a meeting and knowing the person helps. I can see the model's POV too as it takes time that is not paid and if it is a hobby for the model it incurs travel expenses and schedule problems too. With all the tools available today to have a discussion I do not see it necessary. I find the OP' comment on the age of the photographer to be offensive. At 19 almost every photographer she will shoot with will be much older than her, sometimes multiples of her age. The same would be true for a 30+ model commenting on the age of 19 year old photographer ( yes a 16 yo looking for a nude shoot would be different) Jan 07 19 06:24 am Link G Reese wrote: Yes. Both of these statements are true for me, also. The only pre shoot meetings I have gone to are the ones suggested by the model and that has only happened when I was the first person they would be modeling in front of- the first ever. Jan 07 19 06:48 am Link I never request one, but always grudgingly accept if the model wants one... I assume they are just to gauge if I look like a psycho-killer or not (spoiler alert: I look like a psycho-killer)..so the odds are not in my favor. Sometimes after a shoot I will ask if they would like to get something to eat (also not a date) as they usually had to drive a while to get to me.. two hours of shooting and then a long drive back w/o eating?? don't want them passing out from hunger on the road. Jan 07 19 07:01 am Link Taylor Kate f wrote: Pre-shoot ‘dates’ are odd, but IMO pre-shoot meetings are not. I agree that pre-shoot meetings are not always needed and may not be possible or practicable in some situations. Victoria Morrisa wrote: I agree! Jan 07 19 10:17 am Link udor wrote: Trust your vast experience Udor - over a single Models opinion Jan 07 19 10:30 am Link Taylor Kate f wrote: Interesting. I would have seen this as the very description of time well-spent, as opposed to the alternative of not having gone to the meeting, and then finding out mid-shoot that each other's ways of working did not align. Jan 07 19 01:16 pm Link |
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