Jorge Kreimer wrote:
I've never requested a pre-shoot meeting. However, when a model asks to meet, I always accept. It doesn't happen very often, but a few times over the years, most definitely.
Professional nude models have never asked for a meeting. It's mostly first timers, or models who normally would not shoot nude, but like my work enough to try. It's a comfort thing, and I'm fine with that.

Ditto.  I've never asked anyone for a meet, but some models I've shot with have asked me to meet them.  I figure it's their way of filtering out the guys who give them a creepy vibe, so I don't mind meeting them. In my experience, it helps break the ice and gives us a chance to discuss ideas for the shoot, but I  can do that just as easily over email.

Ivy Wild wrote:
I don't like to meet up prior to a shoot just because it is more (unpaid) time out of my already extremely busy schedule. I'm also not super chatty. Generally I find that all of the information regarding the shoot that I need can be acquired over email.

I have never felt like it was a date though. Maybe you just met up with a GWC and it would have been creepy regardless. But since you didn't do the shoot, perhaps the meet up was useful to you after all? You found out that you didn't like him before you took your clothes off?

I think Ivy has summed it up pretty well but let me nitpick a little bit more.
The idea of the meet for coffee as one tool in the model's protective armament against dirty old (or young) men has been around for a lot of years,   For about the same time it has been around as a tool in the photographer's armament against "models" who lie about their age, weight or tendency to pick up anything valuable that might be lying around the studio.  Both risks are, in my opinion, overstated, but they do happen.  In both cases, the preshoot meeting can (not does,but can) help to cut down the risk.  Not necessary when dealing with a reputable agency because in most cases each party is at least pretty sure of what he's being offered and by whom. Not a complete solution by any means.  There are still the Terry Richardsons of the world and more than a few fly-by-night agencies, but mostly, the system works because word gets around pretty quickly. It's a tight, closed community.
     The internet modeling community is larger, ranging from the middle-aged housewife who wants to take a fling at modeling (or have a fling before it's too late  (trust me, it happens) to the kid who got a camera in hopes of getting a girlfriend (I wouldn't know about that--digital cameras weren't around when I was in that age group) on up to the solidly professional wildlife, nature, architectural, corporate or news photographer who shoots models to round out his photographic expertise or the professional art, fashion or commercial agency represented or traveling models who support themselves, and sometimes their families from that portion of their modeling, but come to the more amateur (in the true meaning of the word) world to satisfy their artistic hunger., The complexity of this group demands a more complex set of vetting tools to determine whether or not any two or more people will be appropriate partners for any joint undertaking.  The businessmen's meet and greet function such as a Rotary Club meeting or a card exchange meetup, even the formal employment interview, is essentially no different from a meeting over a cup of coffee between a model and a photographer.  It is simply a mechanism for two (or more) potential collaborators to meet in a relaxed setting to determine how well they are likely to be able to work together and whether the potential project will be to their mutual benefit.  Nothing more and nothing less.
     Will it work in every case?  Certainly not.  Will it work in some cases?  Absolutely!  As they say, "If it works, it works!"  Whether or not it works for any individual shoot is up to the people involved.

All IMHO as always, of course.

Mark Salo wrote:
You are way too young for me but I wouldn't mind a coffee date with your grandmother.

Does Saturday work for you? :-P

Eddy Torigoe wrote:
I just had a meet and greet today and it was on the model's request. It was great and refreshing to actually meet someone as a human being prior to setting up a shoot. We talked about the shoot and photography and science. I'm glad that we did so when we have our shoot next week, it'll feel like someone I know and not some stranger I just met.

Fair point. :-)

Todd Meredith wrote:
OP,

For the past 25 years ive made it a standard practice to have a pre-shoot meeting with everyone with whom I've worked.  It doesn't matter what genre or reason we're shooting, if I haven't met you before, a pre-shoot meeting in a public place such as a coffe shop, restaurant, etc is mandatory, no exceptions.  If we've worked together previously, we may be able to plan a shoot via email, sending each other ideas on which to develop concepts.  I even encourage people to bring a friend with them to the meeting and will pay for any beverages (coffee, tea, soft drinks - never alcohol) we consume.  It's called being polite, nothing more.  For those who say they're too busy for a pre-shoot meeting, I wish them well and move on to working with others who grasp the concept behind the meeting.  Life is too short for drama.

My logic is it's much better to find out about some incompatibility at a pre-shoot meeting than to spend the time, money and effort setting up a shoot.  I would think that a model's point of view would be similar and most of those I meet understand and support my methodology.  When you work with professionals, the conversation will, for the most part, remain on business.  There's nothing wrong with discussing the weather or some news event while you're waiting for drinks or food to arrive.  It's a common practice for breaking the ice and developing a rapport with clients but there's boundaries that should never be crossed.  I believe if you wouldn't discuss something in a meeting at any other job, why discuss it at a pre-shoot meeting.  That's just simple respect.

The people you meet who use photography as a means of meeting women are no different than those who use other activities to meet women.  Unfortunately, it happens every day and everywhere men and women come into contact.  It's those fauxtographers who give everyone who enjoys creating images a bad name.  Grouping all photographers into one bunch because of the behavior of one or even a few makes as much sense as doing the same to models, MUAs or any other category of people.  It's just wrong to do so.

I dooo get what you are saying, on the same hand though, in a perfect world, yes I'd like to get along well with everyone I work with, does it always work that way? No. As a professional, I think you just have to get on with it, even if the chemistry is off. You can't get along with everyone, and I'm not going to say no to working with an amazing photographer/mua/stylist if I worked out our communication style didn't match pre-shoot.

Todd Meredith wrote:
OP,

For the past 25 years ive made it a standard practice to have a pre-shoot meeting with everyone with whom I've worked.  It doesn't matter what genre or reason we're shooting, if I haven't met you before, a pre-shoot meeting in a public place such as a coffe shop, restaurant, etc is mandatory, no exceptions.  If we've worked together previously, we may be able to plan a shoot via email, sending each other ideas on which to develop concepts.  I even encourage people to bring a friend with them to the meeting and will pay for any beverages (coffee, tea, soft drinks - never alcohol) we consume.  It's called being polite, nothing more.  For those who say they're too busy for a pre-shoot meeting, I wish them well and move on to working with others who grasp the concept behind the meeting.  Life is too short for drama.

My logic is it's much better to find out about some incompatibility at a pre-shoot meeting than to spend the time, money and effort setting up a shoot.  I would think that a model's point of view would be similar and most of those I meet understand and support my methodology.  When you work with professionals, the conversation will, for the most part, remain on business.  There's nothing wrong with discussing the weather or some news event while you're waiting for drinks or food to arrive.  It's a common practice for breaking the ice and developing a rapport with clients but there's boundaries that should never be crossed.  I believe if you wouldn't discuss something in a meeting at any other job, why discuss it at a pre-shoot meeting.  That's just simple respect.

The people you meet who use photography as a means of meeting women are no different than those who use other activities to meet women.  Unfortunately, it happens every day and everywhere men and women come into contact.  It's those fauxtographers who give everyone who enjoys creating images a bad name.  Grouping all photographers into one bunch because of the behavior of one or even a few makes as much sense as doing the same to models, MUAs or any other category of people.  It's just wrong to do so.

Also, fauxtographers, I like that XD

Victoria Morrisa wrote:
I am perplexed when I get messages like that, as well. I just got a message like that tonight. I replied asking if he would like to do a voice call via Skype (that way, he doesn't have my phone number and we can discuss the shoot). I'm not going to travel to meet a stranger. Discussing a photoshoot can be done via a phone call. There is no need to meet.

If the guy you're talking about continues to insist on meeting, then I agree with you that he might just want to hang out with you under the guise of it being about a shoot. They might try to threaten you by saying that if you don't meet them, then they won't shoot - that is your red flag that he has ulterior motives or is not serious about a shoot.

There are a lot of predators that pose as photographers. Please be careful.

oOOOh, I actually never thought of that. Skype is a good idea :-)

Michael DBA Expressions wrote:
Not at all, at least not for me.

I want to find out if you are capable of showing up on time before I go to the trouble of setting up for a shoot.

BTW, I'm not 20-40 years older than the OP. I'm 52 years older. And I have zero interest in any sort of romantic relationship with a 19 year old.

Sorry, I shouldn't have written that age was a factor. Not trying to make anyone feel old XD. I just feel like it creates some sort of imbalance. Idk. TBH: I probably shouldn't write this on MM, but I have actually dated a 50 year old man (he was not a photographer XD). My issue is not with older men, it's just that I feel like it's unsolicited attention in order to date me from someone I'm trying to work with, not form a romantic relationship with.

I totally understand about it being a good measure for punctuality :-)

Alexandra Vincent wrote:
It's not unusual for me to drive 300-500, even 1000, miles to shoot with people in a different city. To expect a pre-shoot meet up, when I may be in one state one day, then 3 states away the next, is simply impossible.

CAN RELATE <3

Todd Meredith wrote:

It amazes me that a model won't meet a photographer for a pre-shoot meeting but will show up at a location they've never been to before to shoot with someone they've never met.

Safety should be something about which everyone should be concerned.  Why should a photographer trust a "model" he's never met to show up to his/her studio?  Are models more trustworthy and wholesome that they'd never do anything wrong to anyone?  There's a model in my local area right now who is waiting for her trial for shooting her own husband.  I had the opportunity to speak with someone who met and agreed to work with her.  After only about 20 minutes on set, he called the shoot and admitted he could have precluded wasting his time by meeting wi her beforehand. 

To each his/her own, I suppose.  Wishing you all the best.

Whoa!

Todd Meredith wrote:

It amazes me that a model won't meet a photographer for a pre-shoot meeting but will show up at a location they've never been to before to shoot with someone they've never met.

Safety should be something about which everyone should be concerned.  Why should a photographer trust a "model" he's never met to show up to his/her studio?  Are models more trustworthy and wholesome that they'd never do anything wrong to anyone?  There's a model in my local area right now who is waiting for her trial for shooting her own husband.  I had the opportunity to speak with someone who met and agreed to work with her.  After only about 20 minutes on set, he called the shoot and admitted he could have precluded wasting his time by meeting wi her beforehand. 

To each his/her own, I suppose.  Wishing you all the best.

I try to agree on pretty busy, public locations for this exact reason. "Lets meet @ an abandoned warehouse" for example, sets off a lot alarm bells for me.

I worked with a really nice photographer once and it was a huge trek to the location. THROUGH. THE. WOODS. hmm honestly, I was really frightened and if he was a creep it def could have been ugly. I was scared walking through the woods, and you shouldn't have to feel fearful for your life on your way to a job. In saying that though, a pre-shoot meeting wouldn't have stopped him from murdering me (for example) if that was his intention. Some bad people can be really charming and hide their true nature. Sooo, safety check being the reason for pre-shoot coffee date myth - is now BUSTED :-P

Victoria Morrisa wrote:

This conversation isn't about someone wanting to meet for safety. It's about meeting with someone to discuss the shoot beforehand.

Meeting someone can give you a sense of the person's vibe, which can tell you a lot, but it doesn't tell you if the person is safe. That also wouldn't quite make sense - to meet with a stranger to see if they're safe. If you meet with them and they aren't safe, then you're already in the dangerous situation that you were trying to avoid. And they probably have your phone number. If a person is concerned about personal safety, they can run background checks on prospective colleagues before agreeing to work with them.

AH. SO TRUE

Taylor Kate f wrote:
Hey,...............................

Thoughts everyone??

Hey back @ u
When I first started shooting here in NYC, it was only a select few non-agency/freelance  models from sites like OMP and MM who would request  a "pre-shoot meetings or actually just a coffee date"

As you understand, Industry creative’s network in different circles and this initial (pre shoot) meet with the model talent was as I experienced back then and currently … is NOT generally conducted.

Today with internet exchange/cell phones and  ability to post/link  or send mood boards outlining the direction and  proposed looks for the shoot,  I  see very little benefit in talent requesting  for a meet to discuss the  shoot  nor  would  I consider shopping with a  model for styling.
.That information  can be provided or .conveyed  within your  mood boards and discussed remotely ,   If no stylist for the shoot  or they flake  Have styling pulls  along with you for the shoot especially for your project   .

If you have worked with the talent successfully together on prior shoots, I have found for my projects and with models I have worked with …a pre shoot  to be even more unnecessary.

When working with a team on my self-promo projects, I on occasion, will do a wrap party conducted either in the studio or at a local bar/restaurant as appreciation for their efforts in working with me on my project. This was mentored to me when working with CA photographer David Mecey back when I started in 2001….I found that experience to be one of the best for inclusion  into my shooting style.  And it has fostered good repeat working relationships as well as recognition for our working together and respect for our varied talents.

Back when I was predominately shooting chromes/slide film  (prior to extensive  Digital works ) for my  self-promo projects or for a model portfolio shoot , it wasn’t unusual for setting up a meet with the model sometime after the shoot ( post shoot )  when   my processed slides were picked up at Duggal labs here in NYC  ….  I almost always scheduled a meet with local/NYC talent after their day job or completion of their schedule go-sees at either the XR BAR on West Houston St / at NoHo or Bar 89 in SoHo to review selects from our shoot for inclusion within a models book.

Yes for those inquiring minds ….using a mini light table and loop,.
I will admit …I often suggested XR for the  meet as the 6 story length  fashion  bill boards ads   displayed  on two of the apartment  buildings across the street on  the south side of West HoustonSt  ( at  Sullivan ST  and  also Thomson ST ) could  not be missed on your walk to  XR and also  could be seen peering out from XR windows...the bill boards draped down the  buildings   still remain ..but XR and Bar 89 are no more.???

NYC (SoHo/NoHo)…… Huge .FASHION Bill Board Ads …….Photographer & Model selecting new work for our books …….This often proved to be all inspiring for model talent. And back then …… myself.

Was that dating ???…..I don’t believe models or myself viewed it as such. Nor did my wife who would often meet up with me for drinks and or diner at the bar or Blue Ribbon on Sullivan St (Blue Ribbon still exists ) and recommend  ...go late after 11:00 pm and you may find  culinary industry insiders and top restaurants chefs playing at their craft.
What I can definitely say about how these meets were viewed  by others …. Was that of glowing faced orbs.
Dating not so much …….

Definitely since  digital progression. Into my photography .there is not much if any need for the post shoot meets for selects …Although .I still hit So Ho  ….got to try Raoul's for a French styled burger  on Prince  St or Pinch Chinese  across the street for some  beautiful Hong Kong style soup dumplings .

As others have touched on and especially considering what has been exposed by the me too and .....how Weinsteining …can so easily be affixed to someone .

Models , Photographers ,and all talent working independently  and outside your comfort or experience level  ….be smart …think safe …. Stay creative

Camera Buff wrote:

Your bio currently states "Paid Assignments Only ... No Nudes". So with all the other pre-checks you can do beforehand, it surprises me to think that this 'nude yoga' photographer actually made it as far as getting you to agree to a meet-and-greet over a coffee.

Yes. Well. XD
He just said he was looking for a model and didn't specify nude or yoga even, until we met in person.

Garry k wrote:
Redacted

( one of my New Years Resolutions is to try and be a nicer person )



You are an interesting young woman

Redacted?

Glad to hear :-))

Julietsdream wrote:
*I never meet my models before a shoot..I have all my models come to me anyways...so I can usually just tell the model everything I am hoping for in several emails, before our shoot...!!…I can tell from an email....if the model sounds flakey or insincere....The serious models...email right back, don't wait long periods of time in between emails and they let me know...they are coming 'for sure'...I don't need them to prove it...(or that we are comfortable with each other)...or whatever else.....by meeting me for coffee beforehand..!!...We can hash anything out....pro or con....in an email...and since they are relying on me for the overall look...styling, make-up etc....I don't need their input on what we will be shooting, prior to the shoot, as that is already established...!!...In all the years of shooting...it's only been a super small handful of times, that a model hasn't shown up....and I just look at it as the models loss, because I won't book with her/him again..!!...Because they are coming to me...if they don't show up....I just continue my day..!!...I like to shoot often....so there isn't a lot of time to do pre shoot meetings for anyone, as I am busy doing other things getting ready for the shoot...I know myself and my models appreciate that it's not a requirement...It's never been an issue, really..!!

V true. You are obviously a professional. :-)

Brooklyn Bridge Images wrote:
Over the years several models have requested Pre-shoot meetups.
Startbucks is the normal meeting spot since NYC has them on almost every corner.
Was I so naïve to not realize these meetups were just disguised coffee dates ?

Yes ;-P

Todd Meredith wrote:

I believe you missed the point.

When you meet with someone for the first time in a public place, you're essentially establishing a safe place in which to conduct the pre-shoot meeting which allows you an opportunity to get a feel for the person.  It's why you do it where's there's other people around.  People are less likely to act innappropriopriately when there's dozens of other people nearby.  Is it fail-proof?  Unfortunately not but it will help narrow down the list of crazies out there.  When people balk at meeting in a public venue, that should be a red flag about their behavior.  Why would you then want to meet with them in a private setting, with no one else around?  In today's world, everyone - especially women - should be concerned about safety.  Human trafficking is real, kidnapping is real, other heinous crimes are real.  Ironically, the UN recognizes human tracking as such a real threat, they've made January Human Traffickimg Awareness Month. 

Background check?  With who, the local police?  The FBI?  I hate to tell you that the online background checks have proven exteremlely flawed.  Those businesses always have a disclaimer that they take no responsibility for the accuracy of the information they provide.  They're in the business of making money, period, not providing safety.

Like I mentioned before, to each his/her own.  Wishing everyone a safe year of fun doing something they enjoy.

"FBI, hello it's me again"

Herman Surkis wrote:
This is another of those topics that has come up a thousand times.

My attitude used to be, coffee meet always. It was primarily to see if the person would show up. Secondarily to see if we would get along. And thirdly to discuss what concepts we might plan out. I find that I do not get my ideas across in emails, or tweets.

However, this has now become an off and on thing. Half hour discussing over coffee, days before has always been more productive than half hour at the beginning of the shoot At the shoot it feels rushed. I shoot trade, so I like to bounce ideas back and forth. If I were paying, then it is my ideas, so discussion not necessary.

I have done it with agency models, kind of a "go see", with dancers and local MM types. It has never been a waste of time, but also not always necessary. Thus it is now an off and on thing. If the model is known to me, then the reliability factor is not an issue. Once it it turned out that I did not like the models attitude and we cancelled, and once a model decided we would not work well. Also very useful to go through each others portfolios. Back in the day when it was mostly print, but still works even now when it is all digital. More than once when seeing the model and her stuff and some talk, we planned to go in a totally different direction then originally discussed.. Easier to change direction a week ahead then 30sec ahead. I can shift gears on the spot, but prefer not to.

Really good points actually.

Natural Means wrote:
I remember suggesting pre shoot coffee meets to 4 or 5 models about 5 years ago. Zero interest. So i focus on the shoot and life is better.

They declined the offer?

Jerry Nemeth wrote:
I've never had a pre-shoot meeting with a model but I have been to dinner with a model.  She asked.   

I've been to a post-shoot dinner with a tog. Also, went to coffee & dinner with that same tog when I got back to the city after an o/s trip.
It's fine to become friends with a photographer of course. I'm just talking about pre-shoot meets here.

Orca Bay Images wrote:
Well, if that's honestly how you feel about photographers, that is kind of rude.

The few times I did have a face-to-face pre-shoot meeting were all at the insistence of the model. I find those meetings to be fairly useless... little to nothing that can't be accomplished in a phone call.

Those demands for pre-shoot meetups were especially futile when the model and I lived two hours or more apart. I'll drive four-plus hours round-trip for a shoot, but not to placate someone's fears. Several times I agreed to such a meeting if the model made the drive to me. For some reason, those models thought that was unreasonable. They didn't even want to meet halfway.

I've addressed this point in one of my other replies. Check it out. Sorry to offend! Love your work. :-)

udor wrote:
I usually don't have a coffee meet with models, as I am working mostly on order by either agencies, magazines, designers or other industry people.

I also get hired to shoot model portfolios in my fashion editorial style.

However, I have been approached by the occasional model that wants to shoot with me and asks for trade.

Right now, I was approached by a singer, that recently performed at Carnegie Hall, via a recommendation by a photographer friend, to work with her for a set.

I am actually contemplating a "coffee date" with her, to see what she has in mind, because she also will provide makeup artist and hair stylist.

Then I am seeing this thread and the model's responses and I am confused.

Never thought of coming off as a middle aged creep until now.

Professionally... she approached me, she has some gowns and a designer, and I just don't see anything wrong with meeting prior to the shoot to discuss ideas, concepts and logistics.

This is starting to become a world I am not familiar with anymore.

Weird!

Each to their own actually. I posted this on the forum because I genuinely did want some insight into this topic, not just to blast my own opinion. As you can read from the responses there a good reasons to and not to. I think because they are a singer and not a model they might feel more comfortable being photographed after meeting you first, as they might not be behind a camera regularly. They might want to go about organizing it very formally (like showing you exactly what they want via pictures on an ipad or something). I do get it and you shouldn't be concerned, especially as they approached you. If two people want to pre-meet no problem. I'm talking about when the desire to pre-meet is one-sided.

LnN Studio wrote:
I don't request them but would nosier it if the model requested it.

I can see both sides. Photographers often complain about no show models, which usually does not apply to agency models. Many photographers have up front expenses to rent a studio etc which is wasted if the model doesn't show and while no guarantee that they will show a meeting and knowing the person helps.

I can see the model's POV too as it takes time that is not paid and if it is a hobby for the model it incurs travel expenses and schedule problems too.

With all the tools available today to have a discussion I do not see it necessary.

I find the OP' comment on the age of the photographer to be offensive. At 19 almost every photographer she will shoot with will be much older than her, sometimes multiples of her age. The same would be true for a 30+ model commenting on the age of 19 year old photographer ( yes a 16 yo looking for a nude shoot would be different)

Hey, check my replies on the last page, I have addressed this now :-)

Red Sky Photography wrote:
In over 15 years of shooting with models, I've never had, or wanted to have , a pre shoot meeting. I style most of my shoots, so I know what we will be shooting. If the model has some ideas after we have exchanged emails about the shoot, I'll incorporate those ideas as well.

There is plenty of time while the model is putting on MU or working with a MUA for us to establish rapport and talk about what each of us expects to get from the shoot.

I often shoot with traveling models and they seem to be perpetually on the go and have no time for an unpaid meeting for coffee. Some of them I have hosted, and even then, a quick shared dinner is about all the time they have to spare.

I shoot out of my home, so if a model doesn't show up, happened only once, I have plenty of things to occupy my time.

Truetrue

Hunter  GWPB wrote:

Yes.  Both of these statements are true for me, also.  The only pre shoot meetings I have gone to are the ones suggested by the model and that has only happened when I was the first person they would be modeling in front of- the first ever.

You work with professionals through the agency.  You recognize professional and unprofessional behavior.  Stay away from the fear mongers and the ones that make unprofessional demands.  Who are the most dangerous people you have already met in your life?  The ones who are obsessive?  The ones that are charming and woo you into letting your guard down?  The ones who are laid back and friendly?  The ones who get their job done and go home? 

Is there a list of people from MM that a guy has worked with on their profile?  Contact and check with them.  I think you will find that they all survived the encounter and can give you insights into the person's character.  If you have checked the photographer out and you feel there is a little more that you need to know to ensure your safety, take the meeting.  Or don't, because maybe that little nagging feeling you want to quiet is your warning system warming up.

Does a pre shoot meeting in a pubic place make you safe when you are in a private place?  God, no.  Maybe all that did was get you to let your guard down.

Have you noticed those that are advocating the hardest for these meetings are self serving?  It is their way or the highway.  They don't trust you to show up and they are concerned about you costing them money and you have to prove to them that you are reliable.  They don't want to spend the time at a shoot, when they are paying you, to talk to you and explain the concept.  They don't have the communication skills to talk to you through email and Skype so you have to accommodate them.  They don't want to leave a paper trail that you can go back to and say, "You said ...."  They want to check you out and prep you for the shoot at your expense (they will give you a $3.00 cup of coffee) and on your time and at their convenience, when you could be out making money somewhere.  Has a single one of these guys said that they will be the one to drive the 100 miles to meet with you, or does it seem like they expect you to come to them?  And notice how the strongest advocates for the meetings say they will cancel the shoot per the pre-shoot meeting results.  It is an interview, because they can't check references or get a sense of your skills by communicating any way other than in person.  Is it a two hour shoot or a career employment?  How much time do you need to invest in a pre shoot meeting for a two hour shoot?  If the shoot is for an entire day, will you be interviewed longer?  If it is a shoot for a couple of hours, are they telling you that they are incapable of working with a stranger for a couple of hours?  Does this really make them sound professional?

Jeez.  Take the DEMAND for a pre shoot meeting as a warning flag because that is what it is.  If you have legitimate fears for your safety, go to the police station before you go to the shoot or coffee shop and tell them where you will be and who you will be with.  Ask them to have a car swing by a couple of times.  Hell, ask them to come into the coffee shop and check the guy out.  In my real job, I have to go to people's houses and businesses.  I ask my clients to tell their neighbors and the cops that I will be there and what I am doing and what the neighbors should expect.  I am often forewarned about hostile neighbors.  Hostile neighbors create a large amount of my work.    I love hostile neighbors    And most of the time, it isn't the neighbor who is an ass, it is my client.  But I stop and talk to the police.  I have never been rebuffed by them and it is much better for me if I am the one that contacts the police first, because anyone can make someone look suspicious and I don't want the cops getting called by the neighbor and wasting my time.  I tell the cops who I am, what I am doing, why I am there. I can express a concern for my safety and they are prepared for my call should I need them.  You should let the cops know if you are having coffee with a photographer because there have been so many instances where the guy has arranged to have his henchmen at the shop and they will throw you into a van as you exit the place.  Next thing you know you are in Bubia Abbia chained to wall.      Be safe but don't live your life a slave to false fear. 

Edit:
I have no problem with your characterization of the guy 20 to 40 years older, trying to get you out on a date.  Why?  Because I see how guys act on the street, construction sites and bars,  The more outrageous the probability of a woman wanting to hook up with them, the bolder and more obnoxious SOME men get.  And SOME men drive the stereotype.  I meet women all the time that are 30 years younger than me.  I danced with a woman on Saturday night that had to be under 30. (I also danced with many that are older than me.)  I danced with her because I saw her waltz and she was good.  She danced with me and found out.  But that was it.  One dance and "that was a great dance, my name is ..."  Then off we go.  I would not spend any time talking to someone so far my junior because I know that a very large percentage of young women have been hit on by men my age and older.  I do not want to be one of the men that raises the discomfort level.  I can assure you, if that woman ever sees me at a dance again, she will come over and ask me to dance because I showed her respect.  Should you expect any photographer to do anything other than show you respect, regardless of your age?

This is the best thing I have read in a long time, and I read amazing books, so THANK YOU. <3 I might even print it and put it in my journal/diary tbh. It is just so relatable and it hit me right in the feels haha :-)

goofus  wrote:
I never request one, but always grudgingly accept if the model wants one... I assume they are just to gauge if I look like a psycho-killer or not (spoiler alert: I look like a psycho-killer)..so the odds are not in my favor. Sometimes after a shoot I will ask if they would like to get something to eat (also not a date) as they usually had to drive a while to get to me.. two hours of shooting and then a long drive back w/o eating??  don't want them passing out from hunger on the road.

LOL and yes, once its established you are genuinely a tog that wants to shoot and not date me then I love free food and will def take you up XD

Camera Buff wrote:

Pre-shoot ‘dates’ are odd, but IMO pre-shoot meetings are not. I agree that pre-shoot meetings are not always needed and may not be possible or practicable in some situations.

However, being politely invited to attend a meeting in order to exchange ideas, discuss arrangements and ask/answer each others questions over a cup of coffee is simply an older way of doing things. This may account for the age group that the young model feels is trying to take advantage of her.

Today, many younger and some older techno savvy people, think that doing everything on a mobile phone is the best way of communicating and are possibly becoming overly suspicious of those of us who like to follow some of the older face-to-face ways of doing things.

Do models today still travel to go-sees, castings, test shoots, fittings, etc in person? Or are all these types of pre-shoot meetings now done by mobile phone calls, emails, skype, etc?

I agree!

Thank you. Love your reply. You are right. A lot of castings are now done via video recordings which get sent to the client. Of course, there are still loads that are not.

Garry k wrote:

Trust your vast experience Udor - over a single Models opinion

Hmm, I thought you said you were being nice this year? ;-P

Sliver-Sliver wrote:

Interesting. I would have seen this as the very description of time well-spent, as opposed to the alternative of not having gone to the meeting, and then finding out mid-shoot that each other's ways of working did not align.

Good point.

Chuckarelei wrote:
I'm too cheap and unwilling to pay for those over-priced, over-hyped, over-fadded so-called coffee.

hehe.

M-J Photography wrote:
Without sounding rude it seems to me if a model thinks all male photographers over 50 are perverts, maby they should only work with photographers in their 20-30's if that's their comfort age.  Some models think that only "their" time is important. We also have to work in free time in our schedules to meet and greet with them. I have done shoots with pre meets and without pre meets and have never had any problems  either way.

Hey, check my replies on the last page. I got this response a few times and have addressed this :-)

Rays Fine Art wrote:

I think Ivy has summed it up pretty well but let me nitpick a little bit more.
The idea of the meet for coffee as one tool in the model's protective armament against dirty old (or young) men has been around for a lot of years,   For about the same time it has been around as a tool in the photographer's armament against "models" who lie about their age, weight or tendency to pick up anything valuable that might be lying around the studio.  Both risks are, in my opinion, overstated, but they do happen.  In both cases, the preshoot meeting can (not does,but can) help to cut down the risk.  Not necessary when dealing with a reputable agency because in most cases each party is at least pretty sure of what he's being offered and by whom. Not a complete solution by any means.  There are still the Terry Richardsons of the world and more than a few fly-by-night agencies, but mostly, the system works because word gets around pretty quickly. It's a tight, closed community.
     The internet modeling community is larger, ranging from the middle-aged housewife who wants to take a fling at modeling (or have a fling before it's too late  (trust me, it happens) to the kid who got a camera in hopes of getting a girlfriend (I wouldn't know about that--digital cameras weren't around when I was in that age group) on up to the solidly professional wildlife, nature, architectural, corporate or news photographer who shoots models to round out his photographic expertise or the professional art, fashion or commercial agency represented or traveling models who support themselves, and sometimes their families from that portion of their modeling, but come to the more amateur (in the true meaning of the word) world to satisfy their artistic hunger., The complexity of this group demands a more complex set of vetting tools to determine whether or not any two or more people will be appropriate partners for any joint undertaking.  The businessmen's meet and greet function such as a Rotary Club meeting or a card exchange meetup, even the formal employment interview, is essentially no different from a meeting over a cup of coffee between a model and a photographer.  It is simply a mechanism for two (or more) potential collaborators to meet in a relaxed setting to determine how well they are likely to be able to work together and whether the potential project will be to their mutual benefit.  Nothing more and nothing less.
     Will it work in every case?  Certainly not.  Will it work in some cases?  Absolutely!  As they say, "If it works, it works!"  Whether or not it works for any individual shoot is up to the people involved.

All IMHO as always, of course.

So true.

JONATHAN RICHARD wrote:

Hey back @ u
When I first started shooting here in NYC, it was only a select few non-agency/freelance  models from sites like OMP and MM who would request  a "pre-shoot meetings or actually just a coffee date"

As you understand, Industry creative’s network in different circles and this initial (pre shoot) meet with the model talent was as I experienced back then and currently … is NOT generally conducted.

Today with internet exchange/cell phones and  ability to post/link  or send mood boards outlining the direction and  proposed looks for the shoot,  I  see very little benefit in talent requesting  for a meet to discuss the  shoot  nor  would  I consider shopping with a  model for styling.
.That information  can be provided or .conveyed  within your  mood boards and discussed remotely ,   If no stylist for the shoot  or they flake  Have styling pulls  along with you for the shoot especially for your project   .

If you have worked with the talent successfully together on prior shoots, I have found for my projects and with models I have worked with …a pre shoot  to be even more unnecessary.

When working with a team on my self-promo projects, I on occasion, will do a wrap party conducted either in the studio or at a local bar/restaurant as appreciation for their efforts in working with me on my project. This was mentored to me when working with CA photographer David Mecey back when I started in 2001….I found that experience to be one of the best for inclusion  into my shooting style.  And it has fostered good repeat working relationships as well as recognition for our working together and respect for our varied talents.

Back when I was predominately shooting chromes/slide film  (prior to extensive  Digital works ) for my  self-promo projects or for a model portfolio shoot , it wasn’t unusual for setting up a meet with the model sometime after the shoot ( post shoot )  when   my processed slides were picked up at Duggal labs here in NYC  ….  I almost always scheduled a meet with local/NYC talent after their day job or completion of their schedule go-sees at either the XR BAR on West Houston St / at NoHo or Bar 89 in SoHo to review selects from our shoot for inclusion within a models book.

Yes for those inquiring minds ….using a mini light table and loop,.
I will admit …I often suggested XR for the  meet as the 6 story length  fashion  bill boards ads   displayed  on two of the apartment  buildings across the street on  the south side of West HoustonSt  ( at  Sullivan ST  and  also Thomson ST ) could  not be missed on your walk to  XR and also  could be seen peering out from XR windows...the bill boards draped down the  buildings   still remain ..but XR and Bar 89 are no more.???

NYC (SoHo/NoHo)…… Huge .FASHION Bill Board Ads …….Photographer & Model selecting new work for our books …….This often proved to be all inspiring for model talent. And back then …… myself.

Was that dating ???…..I don’t believe models or myself viewed it as such. Nor did my wife who would often meet up with me for drinks and or diner at the bar or Blue Ribbon on Sullivan St (Blue Ribbon still exists ) and recommend  ...go late after 11:00 pm and you may find  culinary industry insiders and top restaurants chefs playing at their craft.
What I can definitely say about how these meets were viewed  by others …. Was that of glowing faced orbs.
Dating not so much …….

Definitely since  digital progression. Into my photography .there is not much if any need for the post shoot meets for selects …Although .I still hit So Ho  ….got to try Raoul's for a French styled burger  on Prince  St or Pinch Chinese  across the street for some  beautiful Hong Kong style soup dumplings .

As others have touched on and especially considering what has been exposed by the me too and .....how Weinsteining …can so easily be affixed to someone .

Models , Photographers ,and all talent working independently  and outside your comfort or experience level  ….be smart …think safe …. Stay creative

Thanks for sharing! :-)