JadeDRed wrote:

Few people seem to understand that doors can be kept open by not responding, allowing the possibility of an excuse sometime in the future if ones opinion changes but can be slammed shut by a straightforward refusal which many will see as a personal insult, especially for TFP which i imagine is what most rejections are for.

And the reality of the situation: Just what exactly are these huge opportunities people are missing anyway? I know there are success stories and all, but the chances of missing something big by not shooting with someone is as good as winning the lottery.

JonPhoto wrote:

And the reality of the situation: Just what exactly are these huge opportunities people are missing anyway? I know there are success stories and all, but the chances of missing something big by not shooting with someone is as good as winning the lottery.

Often the fact that you as a shooter would take the time to test with an agency model would carry weight in that models books with other shooters and thus can open doors to opportunity. Another shooter(meaning real, working pro photographer and not amateur, etc.) would see the model's book and your photo and thus might test with that model for a possible client use or even hire a model for a client shoot based on the photo you did and knowing your reputation as a shooter.

JessieLeigh wrote:

It seems like the thought has not crossed your mind that perhaps the problem isn't "unprofessional" models but rather the message you send and/or the content of your portfolio.

Perhaps you should consider what Elizabeta Rosandic pointed out on the first page.

Your portfolio does not show that you have been working for 30 years in this business. In fact, it almost looks like you have been out of the game since 2009, maybe even longer because many of the photos that you uploaded in 2009 have even older copyright dates listed.

You have no website, most professional photographers have a website, or at the bare minimum a facebook page. You list big name clients, but have no recent tearsheets posted. You have no MM models credited.

A model that may be considering working with you has no way to verify you are a trustworthy, no way to see what your current skill level is... nothing to go on but your message.

OP I think you should take this ^^ in consideration.Imagine if you were a model and some guy who has outdated photos,no MM models listed,and no website sent you a message, most likely you would think they were a fake or some kind of creeper.(I'm not saying that you are those things).But do take in consideration that your problem might be coming from your profile not unprofessional models.

Digital Czar wrote:

Often the fact that you as a shooter would take the time to test with an agency model would carry weight in that models books with other shooters and thus can open doors to opportunity. Another shooter(meaning real, working pro photographer and not amateur, etc.) would see the model's book and your photo and thus might test with that model for a possible client use or even hire a model for a client shoot based on the photo you did and knowing your reputation as a shooter.

I know that, but that wasn't the question. The question is what are the chances of that actually happening for something big? I say it's pretty slim.

Herman Surkis wrote:

Sorry to hear that.

And I apologize for all the asshats out there.

I hope you report and block them?

I block them and move on with my day. Lots of amazing people out there, and I do my best to make it my job to find them

Brick Wilson wrote:
I understand if you send someone a message, no response is a tacit denial. But what if they're contacting you? I put up a casting call last week and got a half-dozen responses. 3 of them went like this:

Model: Hi! I like your project and want to shoot with you!
Me: OK, when are you available?
Model: [no response, disappears forever]

Ditto!

Paul Grofton wrote:

Ditto!

When you're trying to get things done, regardless of any other factors, this kind of thing becomes a waste of time, a distraction like white noise.

Herman Surkis wrote:

Totally correct.

However common courtesy does.

If someone says hello one the street, you are not obligated to respond, but courtesy says ...

Those who do not respond to one of my emails, I will never know why, because they are blocked so that I will never have to annoy their inbox in the future.

Those who have the courtesy to at least say 'no thank you' stay on my list for future contact when my style changes or I have a paid gig. I do not cast paid gigs. I directly contact models who I have worked with, or were at least polite (according to my standards).

And I am not the only one who does this, I got the idea from others.

I understand why people like to get a response back.
I always respond back to message even if it's to say, "not interested, but thanks"

I have however, gotten butthurt responses calling me all kinds of names and then trashing my work. Some models don't want to have to deal with that and I honestly don't blame them. Best to just not respond and not have to deal with those types of people.

You have to look at it from both sides.

Colorado Model Amber wrote:
841 post and you didn't know this topic has been discussed probably hundreds of times? I guess everyone feels they need to make their own post to gripe about it.

YAWN

If this bores you, then move on. The reason there are 841 posts on the subject is because it is an endemic problem.

Garry k wrote:

no response often is a response

Amen! And then we just move on!

JonPhoto wrote:

I know that, but that wasn't the question. The question is what are the chances of that actually happening for something big? I say it's pretty slim.

While I've never seen any numbers, I also know why I've asked for comps or had a model stop by to meet a client and it goes to that.

Also, early on I was told what proved to be an important business principal, which is "You are your own best investment". In the photo world that means investing in samples, tests etc. and the same can be said of models.

Digital Czar wrote:
Models, no matter if beginner or a true pearl, want work. In some cases they want to trade for images for their book. Same can be said for photographers.

However it's particularly galling that people sign up to be a model here, and we know it's in the hundreds of thousands, then don't even have the barest scrap of professionalism to leave  a good image of themselves by answering emails directed to them.

Oh well...goes with the territory I suppose.

Well, I guess the capper is to slap me with a sync cord for I failed to notice the "model" that set off my comment hasn't even been here since early December,2012-a cool seven months.

Digital Czar wrote:

Yes, but still not professional if you want to be one. Even the Pro's I know, know how to refuse something gracefully, which is part of being a Pro.

Really? You answer every unsolicited email you get? What about Rick offering clipping paths from India?

When I get a TF offer from someone who is not up to my level (around 1000 a week) I ignore it. That saves me not only the time of writting a response but also the hasle of dealing with someone's idea of how goood they really are and how it's a shame that I'm wasting the oportunity to work with them.

I am a professional. I don't have time to answer EVERY SINGLE unsolicited offer I get.

Garry k wrote:
no response often is a response

Orson Quetz wrote:
oops, hit reply too soon.

My point was is yes, no response is a response, but it is also one that betrays lack of professionalism and courtesty.

And I disagreed with you, gave you a debate point, you ignored it and repeated your POV. What's the point of starting a thread if you're just gonna cover your ears and yell lalalala?

Orson Quetz wrote:
oops, hit reply too soon.

My point was is yes, no response is a response, but it is also one that betrays lack of professionalism and courtesty.

This goes back to expectations. MM is mostly a hobby site. People have lives. If someone acted this way in professional circles and it was booked through an agency then it matters more. Money is on the line.

When cold approaching a model on mm for a personal project, I think the standards are relaxed. Move on to the next one.

Natalia_Taffarel wrote:

Really? You answer every unsolicited email you get? What about Rick offering clipping paths from India?

When I get a TF offer from someone who is not up to my level (around 1000 a week) I ignore it. That saves me not only the time of writting a response but also the hasle of dealing with someone's idea of how goood they really are and how it's a shame that I'm wasting the oportunity to work with them.

I am a professional. I don't have time to answer EVERY SINGLE unsolicited offer I get.

Yeah, I do answer for if someone has taken the time to write, and I don't necessarily mean "Hi, you still shooting" kind of thing, I take the time to respond. Just the way I do things...

JonPhoto wrote:

This goes back to expectations. MM is mostly a hobby site. People have lives. If someone acted this way in professional circles and it was booked through an agency then it matters more. Money is on the line.

When cold approaching a model on mm for a personal project, I think the standards are relaxed. Move on to the next one.

I agree, but in my case I have a project in mind where I have a certain type of model I want in my project(which is four photographs) and there are few, that is FEW that are of the proportions, hair color etc. that are suitable. So I value every one that I come across when I look every few weeks for new folks.

Natalia_Taffarel wrote:
Really? You answer every unsolicited email you get? What about Rick offering clipping paths from India?

When I get a TF offer from someone who is not up to my level (around 1000 a week) I ignore it. That saves me not only the time of writting a response but also the hasle of dealing with someone's idea of how goood they really are and how it's a shame that I'm wasting the oportunity to work with them.
I am a professional. I don't have time to answer EVERY SINGLE unsolicited offer I get.

Digital Czar wrote:
Yeah, I do answer for if someone has taken the time to write, and I don't necessarily mean "Hi, you still shooting" kind of thing, I take the time to respond. Just the way I do things...

Did you READ Natalia_Taffarel's numbers?
You're telling us you have enough time to answer 140+ emails a day?
If each email takes only 5 minutes to read & answer, and MANY of them that is over 700 minutes or 11 hours?
When do you find time to actually shoot and bill these clients?

People learn fast if they want to STAY in business, filtering communications is how they keep clients and avoid spending 10+ hours on "no thanks" emails.

You also learn after a while what emails are just going to be a waste of time.

Digital Czar wrote:

I agree, but in my case I have a project in mind where I have a certain type of model I want in my project(which is four photographs) and there are few, that is FEW that are of the proportions, hair color etc. that are suitable. So I value every one that I come across when I look every few weeks for new folks.

I understand that. However, if you don't get a response it still means you are not going to be shooting with the model no matter how bad you want to shoot with them. Just because you value them highly doesn't mean they have to value you highly.

Get an agency model or work with models that may not be a prefect fit but do want to shoot.

JonPhoto wrote:

I understand that. However, if you don't get a response it still means you are not going to be shooting with the model no matter how bad you want to shoot with them. Just because you value them highly doesn't mean they have to value you highly.

Get an agency model or work with models that may not be a prefect fit but do want to shoot.

Or as it appears, not for any other reason that the model who was the subject of my OP hasn't even logged in here which may say something of how serious is the interest in modeling? That is perhaps more telling and why I probably wouldn't use that model if there is no interest in their own hobby or career.

Bay Area Boudoir wrote:
& you have not updated your images in several years.

What is the issue?

I stopped shooting for >10 years due to health issues. Any other personal info you'd like?

K I C K H A M wrote:

Yeah, I try to respond to all messages, but there's a few things... I'm a professional model. This is my livelihood. Sometimes that means I'm booked 5 days straight. I'm not always able to respond on MM because I'm off doing professional agency work, so taking my time to respond to shoots I'm not interested in often gets left for later.

Also, as Paige said, sometimes I respond with a no thank you, and get mass messages back about how I'm ugly, look like a man, not a "real" model, fat, anorexic, etc, etc.... Honestly, sometimes I'm just not up for that.

Anywho, ranting in the model forum isn't going to help you. Sorry.

+1,000

NicoleNudes wrote:
Do you hear back from everyplace that you've applied for a job? No.
They take your resume, look at it and then if they decide you might be right for the job you hear back from them.


Not everyone is going to reply to your messages. Deal with it.

+1 rejection is part of the industry. modelmayhem and real life. (:

Digital Czar wrote:

Or as it appears, not for any other reason that the model who was the subject of my OP hasn't even logged in here which may say something of how serious is the interest in modeling? That is perhaps more telling and why I probably wouldn't use that model if there is no interest in their own hobby or career.

i think that you may be jumping to conclusions. and not very good ones.

Elizabeta Rosandic wrote:
OP- I just reread your post and it looks like you're implying that you only contact models for trade. Is that the case?

Assuming that this is the case, I also looked through your portfolio and noticed that you don't have any MM models credited and it seems your photos were all taken many years ago.

Have you considered paying a model or two to update your portfolio *before* asking for trade?

Even as a photographer on MM, I have to ask the op why do you not have any more current images on MM? The last photo you posted was in 2009. If you want to discuss professionalism, you might want to look a little more professional yourself by posting something that shows you've done some professional work in the last 4 years. I have old stuff in my port but also recent work too. I think its shows a body of your work over time, Which also indicates your professionalism. Of course thats just my professional opinion, and I'm trying to maintain a professional conversation!

Mark C Smith wrote:
I message/tag plenty of models indicating interest and receive no response.

I don't see tags as necessarily needing a reply, I figure if someone has a serious interest in hiring me on talking to me they will PM me, if they leave a tag they are probably just casually making themselves visible both to me and to people who browse my page.

Dan Howell wrote:
Interesting that the OP has been highly selective in responding to posts in this thread, specifically ones from models who make clear, specific points about why they (rather justifiably) don't respond to all solicitations and make valid observations about the OPs profile and the message it sends out.

+10000