JonPhoto wrote:
And this goes back to they are just not interested in shooting with YOU. Move on to the next one or get with an agency.

Digital Czar wrote:
Then they are not a model....it is that simple.

Butthurt much...

Danielle Reid

Bill Tracy Photography wrote:
They could still show some class and reply saying they're not interested.  Takes 10 seconds.

Not really, takes 5 seconds to open an email, another 5 seconds to click the message link and redirected to MM Inbox, another 5-10 seconds to read the message followed by 25-60 seconds to look at the senders profile and port. Then another 30 seconds to go back to the message and type "No, but thanks for the message". God forbid you have crappy internet, MM is slow that day, or you're on your smart phone stuck in Mobile Mode.

In that time I could be booking shoots I actually want to do, checking and responding to messages that actually work for me.

Danielle Reid

Danielle Reid wrote:

Not really, takes 5 seconds to open an email, another 5 seconds to click the message link and redirected to MM Inbox, another 5-10 seconds to read the message followed by 25-60 seconds to look at the senders profile and port. Then another 30 seconds to go back to the message and type "No, but thanks for the message". God forbid you have crappy internet, MM is slow that day, or you're on your smart phone stuck in Mobile Mode.

In that time I could be booking shoots I actually want to do, checking and responding to messages that actually work for me.

Danielle Reid

Class and common courtesy cannot be measured by time.  Half the steps you mentioned were steps to read the message, which is what they are doing already.  It's the lack of following through with a reply that I was referring to.  I should hope that typing "No, but thanks for the message" would not take more than 10 seconds.

Bill Tracy Photography wrote:

Class and common courtesy cannot be measured by time.  Half the steps you mentioned were steps to read the message, which is what they are doing already.  It's the lack of following through with a reply that I was referring to.  I should hope that typing "No, but thanks for the message" would not take more than 10 seconds.

K

Paige Morgan wrote:
I do answer everyone.....and you'd be quite surprised how often a polite "no thank you" will lead to someone calling me every name they can think of and generally hopping on their Huffy Bike.


I can understand why many people don't answer every message they get.


Casting wise? I only want to hear back if I booked the job. Polite as answering everyone may be, I don't need to sort through another piece of mail or a phone call just to hear someone else got the gig.

Its much more professional to answer. And if the other guy has a hissy fit about a polite no thank you then atleast you were professional even if he wasn't.

natural beauties of qld wrote:

You are absolutely right. 

Few people seem to understand that doors can be kept open with a polite "thanks, but no thanks" or slammed shut with silence.

If I message a model but all I get is silence, she will have to work awfully hard to convince me to work with her in the future if she changes her mind.

You're clever. For a Queenslander ;-)

1k-words-photograpy wrote:
I'd amend the OP's point a little.

I would consider myself a professional photographer. So everything I do on MM is towards a professional end. even when I shoot TF its to add a certain look to my book or to perfect a particular technique that I think would be nice.

But I recognize that not everything that happens on MM is considered professional. That a lot of the models (and probably a good many of the photographers) don't consider TF to be "work" per se and I accept that.

I do however expect a level of professionalism if we make contact and decide that this is something we want to go forward with. I don't mean anything more than timely responses that fully communicate your intentions and ideas but a lot of the time on MM that seems to be asking a lot.

Perhaps part of the problem is that many MM "models" think a "job" is getting a photographer(Loosely applied title, btw) to pay them for taking what the real pros would call "testing". That doesn't even come close to a "job" where there is a real client and thousands of dollars and other expenses are on the line. In the days past, often a photographer was only as good as his last job for a client. So, would anyone take that risk with an unknown, untried model? Often not, unless there was an  understanding with the client knowing it was a "new" model and might take a lot of direction and other things, like more film/processing/stylist time and whatever else to get the photo if that's the model the client wants or needs to have. Not at all the same as getting a photographer to take photos of you and pay.

Digital Czar wrote:
So, would anyone take that risk with an unknown, untried model? Often not, unless there was an  understanding with the client knowing it was a "new" model and might take a lot of direction and other things, like more film/processing/stylist time and whatever else to get the photo if that's the model the client wants or needs to have.

Rather ironic, considering how dated your work is.

JessieLeigh wrote:
Rather ironic, considering how fdated your work is.

That's what is called an unsolicited critique, which is not allowed here.

Digital Czar wrote:
Models, no matter if beginner or a true pearl, want work. In some cases they want to trade for images for their book. Same can be said for photographers.

However it's particularly galling that people sign up to be a model here, and we know it's in the hundreds of thousands, then don't even have the barest scrap of professionalism to leave  a good image of themselves by answering emails directed to them.

Oh well...goes with the territory I suppose.

Sure does...!

JessieLeigh wrote:

Garry k wrote:

no response often is a response

The subtext of a no-response is "Trust me, you don't want to work with me. I'm as unprofessional as they come, and I WILL flake on you."

255 West wrote:

The subtext of a no-response is "Trust me, you don't want to work with me. I'm as unprofessional as they come, and I WILL flake on you."

Actually there is a reason some models don't reply at all.  If you poke around and actually listen they will tell you why pushing the ignore button is the new black.   Additionally, there was a thread in the photographer forum not long ago on a similar topic.  Many photographers ignore email from models they don't want to work with either.  Sad but oh well.

I'm not condoning the silent treatment, I think it's unfortunate, but there are reasons for it and it has nothing to do with professionalism.  If a model wants to work with you it's safe to assume she'll reply. 

There are so many psychos on this site I am not shocked that many inquiries are ignored.  But you'd have to listen to understand why.  It's hard to listen when you're busy scolding.

An awful lot of photographer butt hurt in this thread.  If you want to be professional then learn to handle rejection with your chin up and move on to the next one.

Untitled Photographer wrote:

Actually there is a reason some models don't reply at all.  If you poke around and actually listen they will tell you why pushing the ignore button is the new black.   Additionally, there was a thread in the photographer forum not long ago on a similar topic.  Many photographers ignore email from models they don't want to work with either.  Sad but oh well.

I'm not condoning the silent treatment, I think it's unfortunate, but there are reasons for it and it has nothing to do with professionalism.  If a model wants to work with you it's safe to assume she'll reply. 

There are so many psychos on this site I am not shocked that many inquiries are ignored.  But you'd have to listen to understand why.  It's hard to listen when you're busy scolding.

An awful lot of photographer butt hurt in this thread.  If you want to be professional then learn to handle rejection with your chin up and move on to the next one.

In the biz, it was always the unspoken, but polite rule that if you, as a shooter, were asked to bid on an assignment and it was one that for whatever the reason did not really want to do, you bid  high-high enough to where you knew they would take another bid. It gave the message that you were busy enough that at the moment you couldn't do the job, or if they understood the unspoken reason, they moved on.

There is similar here, but it NOT the "no answer is an answer" thing.

Digital Czar wrote:

In the biz, it was always the unspoken, but polite rule that if you, as a shooter, were asked to bid on an assignment and it was one that for whatever the reason did not really want to do, you bid  high-high enough to where you knew they would take another bid. It gave the message that you were busy enough that at the moment you couldn't do the job, or if they understood the unspoken reason, they moved on.

There is similar here, but it NOT the "no answer is an answer" thing.

Was as in a decade ago?
I'm sure the "biz" has changed some in the last 10-20 years...

Carle Photography wrote:

Was as in a decade ago?
I'm sure the "biz" has changed some in the last 10-20 years...

Nope, it's been this way and still is...

JessieLeigh wrote:

Rather ironic, considering how dated your work is.

It's sure great to be evaluated by a weekend-hobby model. Tell me, are your photos great? If they indeed are, why are you only shooting weekends and not full-time when you are trying to give the appearance of having a great grip on the business of being a model and what it takes to be a photographer?

255 West wrote:

The subtext of a no-response is "Trust me, you don't want to work with me. I'm as unprofessional as they come, and I WILL flake on you."

BS
The subtext of a no-response is IN MOST CASES I don't think ‘YOUR work is up to par with mine and you're delusional thinking I will Test with you.

Digital Czar wrote:
It's sure great to be evaluated by a weekend-hobby model. Tell me, are your photos great? If they indeed are, why are you only shooting weekends and not full-time when you are trying to give the appearance of having a great grip on the business of being a model and what it takes to be a photographer?

I've met many models who were educated, successful and professionals in fields other than modelling. The implication often put about that models who have other jobs are "settling" for another career due to their failure at modelling is laughable. There are much more impressive, rewarding and well paying careers than modelling, and some of us do have other interests and passions.

Some pretty, young women do actually do want to do something with their lives other than be glamorous pinups, or whatever.

JadeDRed wrote:

I've met many models who were educated, successful and professionals in fields other than modelling. The implication often put about that models who have other jobs are "settling" for another career due to their failure at modelling is laughable. There are much more impressive, rewarding and well paying careers than modelling, and some of us do have other interests and passions.

Some pretty, young women do actually do want to do something with their lives other than be glamorous pinups, or whatever.

That aside for the moment, if they have such a great grip on the business, they would be full-time and making a living at it. The real ones, photographers and models do this stuff on demand, at the time requested as opposed to the others who can do things over and over until they get it right.

Digital Czar wrote:

That aside for the moment, if they have such a great grip on the business, they would be full-time and making a living at it. The real ones, photographers and models do this stuff on demand, at the time requested as opposed to the others who can do things over and over until they get it right.

Well what if they just wanted to model for fun and not for a career?Would that still make them unsuccessful?

And why are you so hostile?

Rollo David Snook wrote:
It's all very well making beautiful images and posting them on the internet and it impresses people, but I chuckle to myself how many seconds most forum users would last with an art director asking them for a specific brief or challenge, could they actually take a picture entirely to someone else's brief and direction and impress that person, hmm I don't know, some "professionals" here are still figuring out how to talk to models, well... human beings in general.

It's taken 5 pages for someone to say something that has substance.

glofoto wrote:
I am constantly amazed by how many models don't know about the turn on/off email notifications in the settings of their profile.  Many models I contact reply months later with " I'm never on this site and just now got your email" and didn't even know about the notification feature.  Maybe it could be set to send email notifications as the default setting on new profiles?

Agree.

DGI Concepts wrote:

Agree.

I get the ones that will read my detailed message explaining the shoot, the pay rate, etc etc.  I see they read the message... I give them a week or so, and then I'll reply with "Yes, no, maybe?" - and then they'll reply saying they just read my message and they're never on the site.  lol  Do they realize people can see when they've read a message?

Alannah Jones Styling wrote:

Well what if they just wanted to model for fun and not for a career?Would that still make them unsuccessful?

And why are you so hostile?

Not hostile at all if you read the previous commentary.

Digital Czar wrote:

That aside for the moment, if they have such a great grip on the business, they would be full-time and making a living at it. The real ones, photographers and models do this stuff on demand, at the time requested as opposed to the others who can do things over and over until they get it right.

Why are you even on mm? Go to an agency that represents models who can shoot all the time?

Digital Czar wrote:
Models, no matter if beginner or a true pearl, want work. In some cases they want to trade for images for their book. Same can be said for photographers.

However it's particularly galling that people sign up to be a model here, and we know it's in the hundreds of thousands, then don't even have the barest scrap of professionalism to leave  a good image of themselves by answering emails directed to them.

Oh well...goes with the territory I suppose.

Digital Czar wrote:

It's sure great to be evaluated by a weekend-hobby model. Tell me, are your photos great? If they indeed are, why are you only shooting weekends and not full-time when you are trying to give the appearance of having a great grip on the business of being a model and what it takes to be a photographer?

First of all, pipe the F down.

No one here has "evaluated" your portfolio. No one said that your work was bad. She said that it was dated, which it is. All of your work is from 10-20 years ago.

You came into the forum all depressed because apparently models aren't responding to your trade offers. As I and many others have mentioned, this is likely due to the fact that your portfolio isn't current.

However, you sound like you're actively shooting. So, why not put some of your newer work up? Or, if I'm mistaken and you don't have any new work, why not pay a good model or two to update your work? Do either of these things, and I guarantee that as long as your work is decent you'll be able to find a model willing to trade with you.

Or you could ignore this solution and continue to be butthurt in the forums. Your call.

Elizabeta Rosandic wrote:
As I and many others have mentioned, this is likely due to the fact that your portfolio isn't current.

That could be why he wants to do some trade shoots, lol

DLH Photo wrote:

Thanks for your insight. I often put "Availability and rates?" in the subject. Maybe if I put "Paid Gig" I might get more responses.

I find that works every time, just add "Paid Gig"....they can smell the $$$$  lol

Bill Tracy Photography wrote:

That could be why he wants to do some trade shoots, lol

The point of trade shoots is to benefit both parties. There are other reasons as to why an experienced model isn't going to respond to a trade offer from someone with an outdated portfolio, but the main reason is that it isn't practical. If I have no idea what his current work looks like (if he has any), why would I even consider trading with him?

At this point, if he wants to build his portfolio he needs to hire models. After he does that, if his work is good enough, he could probably start asking models to trade.