Sekxii wrote:
It's a personal choice.  Personally, I think all touching between strangers is unacceptable unless one person is on fire or there is some other emergency. 

That's why we have language so we don't have to touch each other.   If the model can't take non-physical direction, then just end the shoot.  Models are not robots.. they're human and whether someone wants to be touched or not is a personal choice.

Modeling is a job.  Some jobs require a level of physical contact.

Modeling requires time in wardrobe (being touched), time in makeup (being touched), time in hair (being touched).

If a person is afraid of or does not want to have physical contact, he/she probably should probably not be pursuing modeling as a career/hobby.

There are male and female MUAs, male and female wardrobe stylists and male and female hairstylists.

So everyone else on the team is allowed to make professional physical contact to do their job, except the photographer?  Is that what you are saying?

If the photographer can just "explain everything" instead of touching, then surely the MUA, hairstylist and wardrobe stylist can just "explain everything" too, right?

Sekxii wrote:
Personally, I think all touching between strangers is unacceptable unless one person is on fire or there is some other emergency. 

That's why we have language so we don't have to touch each other.   If the model can't take non-physical direction, then just end the shoot.

Strangers are two people passing on a footpath.

Shoots, the photographer and model are friends for at least the shoot, maybe shoot again, maybe never to meet again but friends for that shoot.
That's how a shoot runs, a friendship to bond and work together as one.

If the model, as you believe, sees the photographer as a stranger and the photographer likewise, just how well will those images come out do you think?
Try Distant-Cold-Unconnected.

During a shoot I take responsibility for the model, strangers I pass on the street, I don't.

"If the model can't take non-physical direction, then just end the shoot."
Oh end it just like that.
Are we talking about declining a piece of extra toast that was made for you at breakfast?
What about the booked & paid for MUA/Stylist/studio/?
Just end them too, just like that.

Fail to Prepare, Prepare to Fail.
Is a great saying.

As far as your
"That's why we have language so we don't have to touch each other." so what to do with those stray hairs across the face, use words to coax the strands back into place, like a snake charmer uses his flute?
Next option if that fails, get a sports coach in motivate the hair back into place, complete with a set of cheerleaders or the last ditch effort to wheel in a Sargent shouting major if the rebellious hair still stubbornly refuses the softly softly approach.

Your 'don't touch me-uptight mindset' would be seen & raised with 'don't shoot you'.

When shooting a model in a corset which she requires lacing up at the back, what shall I say, no, no touching, gonna use my jedi skills to lace you up instead?

Jaguar Photos wrote:
Why do people make this an issue,if a model doesn't want touched(male or female) then don't touch them.It's a pretty simple request,not shooting them because they request that is foolish.The society we live in now is unsafe and sometimes out right dangerous.

So, if you have the absolutely perfect shot set.  Pose perfect, lighting, etc... and there is one thing out of place, something the model cant get to without moving and changing the perfection you have framed...  What do you do?

Take the shot and fix it in post?

Luke Lenz wrote:
If the model, as you believe, sees the photographer as a stranger and the photographer likewise, just how well those images come out, distant-cold-unconnected.

During a shoot I take responsibility for the model, strangers I pass on the street, I don't

.

Well said, indeed

Dan Epstein wrote:
I spent years shooting fashion in NYC.  NEVER had to touch a model.  Never.  I can't believe that the big agencies would send a model to a shoot with someone who was "touchy".  That said, the stylists often had their hands all over the talent fixing the merch, etc.

If you can't explain what you want, either you really don't know...or the talent really isn't.  But between two working professionals?  I'm sorry. This sounds silly.

So someone who adjusts a few strands of hair from a face so not to disrupt a perfect pose is touchy?
That's some right frigid-fashion talk.

Read the thread, without touching the mouse/keyboards or it will be deemed a 'touchy' thread.
You just sounded silly billy.

Dan Epstein wrote:
I spent years shooting fashion in NYC.  NEVER had to touch a model.  Never.  I can't believe that the big agencies would send a model to a shoot with someone who was "touchy".  That said, the stylists often had their hands all over the talent fixing the merch, etc.

If you can't explain what you want, either you really don't know...or the talent really isn't.  But between two working professionals?  I'm sorry. This sounds silly.

I've heard loads of stories of "big agencies" sending models to photographers and others who are "touchy" and not during the shoot, but in private at other times.  Hard to believe you were in that world for "years" without at least being aware of such things.

Art of the nude wrote:

I've heard loads of stories of "big agencies" sending models to photographers and others who are "touchy" and not during the shoot, but in private at other times.  Hard to believe you were in that world for "years" without at least being aware of such things.

Very well said.
There was an expose documentary on this some 10+ years back, which was absolutely shocking!!
The stress and angst of the parents of these young models must have been unimaginable.

Shiva Photo wrote:
" I will not tolerate HANDS ON PHOTOGRAPHERS " This appears in a recent model portfolio
[,,,]
Models who are absolutely " touch me not"  must think twice about a serious career in modeling.

Photographers and Models opinions are welcome. A touchy subject no doubt.

My opinion is that either the models understand what (commercial/professional) modeling is about, or they should drop out of the business.

In my experience, this attitude is more an amateur model's attitude... in that case, you have to be more patient and understanding... but also behave accordingly.

Heck, when I am shooting... I also often simply announce what I will do to the model, e.g. "Can I move the hair out of the way..." , or "Your earrings are twisted, can I just move them..."

However, that is completely different when at a professional shoot with a whole crew... but then again... those models know that 10 people adjust them all at the same time...

Difference between a pro and an amateur.
If you work with amateur models, you may encounter this

Art of the nude wrote:

I've heard loads of stories of "big agencies" sending models to photographers and others who are "touchy" and not during the shoot, but in private at other times.  Hard to believe you were in that world for "years" without at least being aware of such things.

Agreed. First of all, these 'big agencies' often have bookers or owners involved in relationships with models. Secondly, they would not bat an eyelash at a model sleeping with a well known photographer. I think they would actually encourage her to do it.

Dark Shadows wrote:

Agreed. First of all, these 'big agencies' often have bookers or owners involved in relationships with models. Secondly, they would not bat an eyelash at a model sleeping with a well known photographer. I think they would actually encourage her to do it.

Not sure about encouragement...

But the fact is... more relationships are getting started at the work place than any other place (not sure about the online dating circuit tho).

If you work only in this industry... naturally you will hook up/date or whatever with some of the attractive or interesting or talented or all of the above people people around you as well.

Here is the amateur photographer's equivalent to the OP... Usually photographers who do not shooting full time (but may produce high quality/professional level imagery!) may get upset when photographers and models date each other.

But... the people who are part of the fashion/commercial industry, they don't even bother talking about it or getting upset about it... because it's childish.

HOWEVER, there are bad apples everywhere... and forcing someone into doing something they do not want to do out of their own free will, is bad no matter how you look at it.

Larry Quick wrote:
I always ask before touching and I never touch a private part anyway, that way you don't have any problems.

The following situation happened a few years ago to a model who I worked with, actually it happened to her friend and she told me about it, when I was a moderator here:

An "art" photographer was taking a shot of her vulva... and because he was going for the "poking look", he massaged her clitoris, to make it stick out more. The model (naive) let it happen, because she thought that this was normal (amateur nude model).

This is absolutely true... it happened... and every time I see a new model complain about being "touched" on the shoulder or so... I have to remember the "poking look" story.

Another photographer who was shooting for some major magazine, living in Long Island NY, was applying baby oil to the model's (unbelievable perfectly, tight) buttocks... after offering her some weed.

Bear in mind... she was there for a headshot...

That guy had a predatorial reputation and still shoots... and because he is so affluental, he's getting away with it... some models tho do have no problem with that...

It's just interesting to see what's going on behind the moderator-curtains...

varton wrote:
This thread can go forever and I really skipped the first 8-9 pages as I don’t have the patience.
All I can say is that some female models are too much concerned about nudity to begin with so never mind even touching them. If I had to touch a model for any reason I do it as a last resort and all my models know I am more motivated  with the best outcome of the shoot then molesting them. 

The problem is often trust as it was already mentioned. It is also the fact that there are some bad apples in any profession and people just get carried away.

Usually there is no need to touch a model unless she is shooting something like for instance bondage and she is tied up and can not adjust herself, her hair or posture in which case she needs to be helped.
Also there is no way to rig and tie or shibari the model without touching her.

Know your photographer, ask references to others. If you are anxious don’t even start shooting.

Voila.

udor wrote:
The following situation happened a few years ago to a model who I worked with, actually it happened to her friend and she told me about it, when I was a moderator here:

An "art" photographer was taking a shot of her vulva... and because he was going for the "poking look", he massaged her clitoris, to make it stick out more. The model (naive) let it happen, because she thought that this was normal (amateur nude model).

This is absolutely true... it happened... and every time I see a new model complain about being "touched" on the shoulder or so... I have to remember the "poking look" story.

Another photographer who was shooting for some major magazine, living in Long Island NY, was applying baby oil to the model's (unbelievable perfectly, tight) buttocks... after offering her some weed.

Bear in mind... she was there for a headshot...

That guy had a predatorial reputation and still shoots... and because he is so affluental, he's getting away with it... some models tho do have no problem with that...

It's just interesting to see what's going on behind the moderator-curtains...

I am so glad Udor is back.  I responded to this thread a long time ago, but I will add something here ...

Most of the time there is no need to touch a model ...

Sometimes it is inappropriate, and generally weird ...

It is always better to have an assistant do if it is needed ...

But if you must, do it only for the right reason and be respectufl.

Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
Doing bondage photography is rather difficult if you can't touch the model . . .



. . . just sayin'

Somebody else already said that

Art of the nude wrote:

I've heard loads of stories of "big agencies" sending models to photographers and others who are "touchy" and not during the shoot, but in private at other times.  Hard to believe you were in that world for "years" without at least being aware of such things.

Years ago I met a formermodel.She had been working through a major NY agency. A well established photographr in NY called lunch for the crew, then asked her to stick around for one or two more quick shots.  When the crew left, he grabed her breast and tried to pull her to him. She kneed him in the groin and ran out of the studio.  After leaving she called her booker and reported what happened. She told me the booker was silent for a moment, then asked, "You mean you left in the middle of the shoot?". She was dropped from the agency that day. When I met her she was in Savannah.GA, applying for a job at a hotel.

Don't depend on an agency to do anything other than book shoots.

Doug Lester wrote:

Years ago I met a formermodel.She had been working through a major NY agency. A well established photographr in NY called lunch for the crew, then asked her to stick around for one or two more quick shots.  When the crew left, he grabed her breast and tried to pull her to him. She kneed him in the groin and ran out of the studio.  After leaving she called her booker and reported what happened. She told me the booker was silent for a moment, then asked, "You mean you left in the middle of the shoot?". She was dropped from the agency that day. When I met her she was in Savannah.GA, applying for a job at a hotel.

Don't depend on an agency to do anything other than book shoots.

she should file sexual assault charges instead of calling that numb nut on the phone

Shiva Photo wrote:
" I will not tolerate HANDS ON PHOTOGRAPHERS " This appears in a recent model portfolio

Maybe I should put "I will not tolerate HANDS OFF MODELS* in my profile.

Ken Marcus Studios wrote:
Doing bondage photography is rather difficult if you can't touch the model . . .



. . . just sayin'

ei Total Productions wrote:
Somebody else already said that

It wasn't somebody else...
https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thre … st16106504