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Touch me not Models
The drama. Nov 12 11 10:26 am Link I will only adjust the hair as the model can't really see what's going on there and then only with the models permission. I watched a YouTube video of a photographer showing how to pose high school seniors, it actually embarrassed me watching it. He was grabbing their head and twisting it and stretching their neck. In one where they were on a stool that would turn he would put his leg up against theirs and grab their shoulders to turn them into position. I don't think your going to get the best images if your model or subject feels their personal space is being invaded. Nov 12 11 10:43 am Link Robert Lynch wrote: Ken Marcus Studios wrote: ei Total Productions wrote: It wasn't somebody else... I thought I heard that somewhere before . . . . . Nov 12 11 11:17 am Link 'Touch me not Models' maybe they think they'll get pregnant if a photographer touches them. Nov 12 11 12:10 pm Link Being a model that has been involved in the XXX side as well as the mainstream side and everywhere in between, I personally have been "touched" in professional ways for adjustments and such, and then there are the times when photographers have tried to "touch" in counter-productive ways. HIGHLY unprofessional and makes the model feel immensely bad about themselves. I'd say it's about the best way to take a photo shoot and throw it right in the garbage, because once that "touch" happens my self esteem flys out the window and often times the shoot turns into a race to get out the door and to the nearest fast food for self gratification. Nov 12 11 12:32 pm Link Maybe if you're a photographer who feels you must touch a model to make adjustments, perhaps the real issue is that you don't have the verbal communication skills to convey the pose...and not the model at all. Nov 12 11 12:38 pm Link David Cajio Photography wrote: So you managed to name everyone on set who has an express right and reason to touch models, and then.. The photographer.. Nov 12 11 12:47 pm Link My limited experience was (I generally try to be respectful, polite and nice  ) that when I ask for permission to adjust the reply is verbatim "do what you need to do"; from both MM and agency models.Nov 12 11 12:51 pm Link I don't get all the fuss here? Creeps will be creeps, no matter where they are. All the models I've ever met have had that female sense to spot one fairly quickly. If you behave professionally and ask if you can adjust hair etc then it shouldn't be a problem. Underwear is a totally different matter of course, but more often than not the model respects me enough, and trusts me to move a strap or whatever. However, i always ask, and I always check first. Models need to be respected as people too. Treat them as fellow professionals then everything is cool. Start pawing them and naturally the shoot will be over fast. The older and wiser the model the shorter this can take place. I can't see why this thread has latest so long really. There are slimy photographers and sleazy models, to be honest both parties need to be aware around new people, as accusations are the easiest thing to make and the hardest to disprove. Nov 12 11 01:43 pm Link Freelance_Bob wrote: My favorite part.. Nov 12 11 01:59 pm Link c_h_r_i_s wrote: No. They just know we have cooties. Nov 12 11 02:04 pm Link I rarely touch models myself, I always thought that's what monopods were for  Nov 12 11 11:56 pm Link So... how about the reversal of that situation? What about models that touch photographers? I know that he didn't complain... WARNING: This image is not work-safe and may cause harm to your eyesight! Nov 13 11 07:00 am Link Models that state it politely yet firmly may have had a quasi-GWC experience or three already, may have heard *stories* from other girls about it & now fear it, may just be paranoid in life, or are just plain ol' dramahhh! Personal experiences with this: I prefer not touching models, for a variety of reasons. I prefer boosting their self-confidence with my words, including telling them how 'perfectly' they 'nailed that pose(!)'. I speak very high-level English, and am completely capable of dumbing it down as-needed and when-required. Therefore, I *can* provide direction right down to the last mm. But then again, my style is such that I merely generally direct with generalities, allowing model to be/feel creative when she 'nails that pose', and allows for models of mine to have varying poses than other models of mine. Yet, I shoot with a poop-load of noobs. They are competent and we make it to the pose every time, but they desire a quicker pace so 7/10 times what do I hear? This: "Just...POSE me! GAHHH!". So I do. Read my tags, and you'll see what they think of me "just pose"(ing) them  It's a pain at times, but it gets the job done and done right. I'd rather pose her and create images that we/*the client* wants, than be very very hands-off and have a disc full of stiffness and flat captures due to standard posing and half-dead expressions  IMHO alone, as always; ~Danny http://dbiphotography.co.cc https://www.modelmayhem.com/1983551 Nov 13 11 08:12 am Link Miss Anthrope 1007 wrote: At MOCA Gala 2011 I was a center"gazing head"piece -> http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/11/13/moca-gala-2011-marina-abramovic-debbie-harry-and-more-photos.html -> and all patrons abided by no touch rules Nov 13 11 10:26 am Link That's why I have someone else to it. If the model is fine with me adjusting hair and clothes, I'll do it. Otherwise I have someone else stand near to make adjustments. Regardless... there will be touching. Nothing I hate more than getting a near perfect shot, need a slight adjustment, and the model can't return to the pose naturally. Which on a comical note, we could always use one of those grabby reach things old people use to pick shit off the floor with to make adjustments. Nov 14 11 10:24 am Link Making hair or wardrobe adjustments is sometimes necessary, before approaching a model I tell them what I need to do and ask if it's OK. If a photographer just grabs a handful of boobage, take one of his expensive lights and smash him over the head with it two or three times and tell him, "Bad photographer!!" The idiot deserves it!!:-)) Nov 14 11 10:35 am Link descending chain wrote: I. Love. You!!!! Nov 14 11 09:56 pm Link Well there are some things that can't be adjusted by the model because of perspective, such as hair or long dresses/hanging fabric from outfits. Nov 29 11 07:41 pm Link I think the models are implying they don't want creepy photographers touching them in a joking around/we're becoming friends way. Nov 29 11 07:54 pm Link Working in a different part of the world may offer some perspective to this dilemma you all seem to be having. The more I read this thread, the more I only shake my head in frustration over how stupid some people can get. And here is why: 1) Modelling is a profession much like everything else we do in life. As stated earlier, Fashion Models are not touched, they are manhandled, and they have to live with it. The same for Agency models that are pure professionals. Why wouldn't this go for MM models or Internet models as well? Are they a different breed? It makes one wonder.... 2) I usually have atleast a make-up artist with me on the set when I shoot, especially when doing glamour or pin-up because of the extreme make-up involved. However, rarely do I ask the MUA to do shit other than keep an eye on the make-up. Adjusting is something I do myself, as I know exactly how I want it. This goes for almost everything, except their pubic area. I have never had issues, always returning models, and no problems. But then again, I never do TFPs. Always paid work, and mostly from Agencies. 3) Being a model is more than just standing there and look pretty and hope for the best. Some of the model behavior in here flat out grosses me out. Why the hell are you models in the first place? The personal space thing is null and void the MOMENT you show up for a shoot. I never ask permission to do anything. I always say: "excuse me...." and do what I need to do. Simple. But even then, its very important to have a 10 minute meeting ahead of the shoot explaining the rules. It works wonders. Personal space be damned. I agree with the OP that models like that have no future in the industry. What really bugs me the most is that the models here actually have most of the photographers agreeing with them that "never touch me." I agree that perhaps they have met a few too many GWCs, a few too many gropers for other reasons than professionalism, but hey, met a few very unprofessional girls too. Same thing, just different reasons behind the unprofessionalism. I dont say that its ok to "grope" a model. Of course it isnt. I never touch a model for other than getting my pictures perfect. Period. Feeling up a model never even occured to me to do. And most models know this already, especially the professionals. But models coming into this business with the idea that they will be left alone is sadly mistaken. Its a rough business, and survival of the fittest. If you prove not worthy to work with, then you lose work. Strange that last time I saw Dean Johnson being photographed (was videod by the magazine, just cant for the life of me remember which one), she was both touched and GROPED by the photographer, and it was like a normal part of the day for her. As long as its not meant in any sexual way, and is for professional means, it shouldnt bother the model at all. Maybe I am a bad communicator then. Maybe I need to visualize. Who cares? My advice to photographers who encounter issues with this. Use professionals. Doesnt cost THAT much to hire them, if you keep away from the supermodels. Bottom line is that I have done this for a few years now and never ever had issues. NEVER. I touch my models as I see fit to get the images I need. They know this BEFORE we start shooting, as I dont have to lose focus by asking later on. But, I never grope their pubes or boobs. Thats a big no no for me too. But anything else is fair game. And the models are fine with it. And unless you work with amateurs, they know this already. If they dont, they have some issues themselves. Get used to it or get out. Easy as that. Now, flame me too, I couldnt care less. EDIT: realized this is an old thread. I humbly apologize. Jun 29 12 04:57 pm Link  Moderator Note!This thread was done six months ago. Jun 29 12 05:04 pm Link Shiva Photo wrote: Depends on the model's skill, and how literally they mean it. I've had models I never needed to get within six feet of, and models how said "no touching" who were fine with it once they understood the need, and if asked / warned. Jun 29 12 06:15 pm Link Augustine York wrote: In the shots with my cloak the photographer made slight adjustments to the cloak and pointed for hand positions. It made sense for him to make that adjustment as if I did, I would have wrecked the rest of the pose. Jun 29 12 06:58 pm Link I just was reading this thread after reading some material on bodycasting and I realized I'm going straight to hell, or jail, or the poorhouse, or somewhere bad. I mean I'm actually educating myself about something that would require touching a model's breasts and genital areas. I'm damned. Jun 29 12 07:40 pm Link I can touch myself, thank you very much.  Jun 29 12 08:27 pm Link MelissaAnn wrote: OK! Jun 30 12 02:44 am Link I don't mind touching. o_O Jun 30 12 02:57 am Link It is strange how designers never get this problem. We have to touch fitting models. Even working with a seamstress I have to make adjustments constantly. But that is the difference probably. Designers generally wouldn't be working alone and the model wouldn't generally be nude. There is absoloutely no way a photographer has any need to touch a model. The model has hands; and can do it herself. And often the model is nude or semi nude. Because of the activities of the odd perv photographer - which many models will have had - models will often be nervous about a photographers approach. In addition; while I may have to do it 30 times during the course of a fit; I never do it without telling the model what I am about to do when near to her waist, chest etc. and have managed to avoid any kind of touching of a model's or client's flesh in 5 years. So if we can manage it; photographers certainly can. So it shouldn't even be an issue; indeed for the vast majority it isn't with a bit of common sense when and if adjustment is required. If you want to see how it is done with correct decourm yet lots of tugging and pulling; spend a day with a designer. But I think most photographers wouldn't be the lunge and grope type; but unfortunately one or two are and it is these that models will invoke a no touching rule to set the ground rules out for. Jun 30 12 03:06 am Link Neil Snape wrote: Alabaster Crowley wrote: Neil lives in Paris and shoots fashion for a living on both sides of the Atlantic... you don't. Jun 30 12 03:22 am Link Rule 1. Don't touch the model If you do need to break Rule 1, ask first. Jun 30 12 05:27 am Link It is interesting to watch well known professiionals at work. Watched this video of Peter Hegre recently and noticed a fair amount of touching. http://vimeo.com/43653809 Jun 30 12 09:06 am Link I'm curious about nude great-granny models - What if you need to flip her breast back around to her front side? Jun 30 12 09:12 am Link Shiva Photo wrote: It's so crazy to me that all these "models" are reluctant to fully participate in a shoot. I think it may just be individuals who are calling themselves models that have this problem. I certainly know how to strike a pose, and what my good angles are, but I definitely don't know if my hair is falling in the proper place, or if I have flyaways on top of my head, and if I'm in a pose where my head is tilted back, then common sense dictates that I can't see what's not in my peripheral vision. Just change my position. Whether I like being re-positioned or not is irrelevant. It's my job. I'm there to make this process as efficient and productive as possible. Jun 30 12 09:33 am Link I guess that's the difference between models who see the job as a job, or as something latently sexual. Jun 30 12 10:40 am Link Venessa M Baez wrote: +1 Jun 30 12 02:20 pm Link MelissaAnn wrote: When you think about me do you touch yourself? Jun 30 12 02:28 pm Link  Jun 30 12 02:45 pm Link Rik Austin wrote: Obviously, it wasn't... Jun 30 12 02:49 pm Link Likely to be diva but perhaps from a bad experience. I like I have asked most models I have worked with if I could adjust their hair or something and every one has no had an issue with it and hugged me when we have said goodbye. There should be no problem if respect is involved. Jun 30 12 02:55 pm Link |
