Select Models wrote:

Nah... ain't fallin for that excuse.  Moderators here are IN YOUR FACE on this kind of action and they don't let that kind of stuff get out of hand here.  The brig is sparatically populated with the bashers you're referring to...

This is incorrect.

VikyL wrote:

It's not an excuse.  It is literally why I do not participate in the forums.  The general vibe is toxic, and the advice given is often enragingly incorrect.  Moderators only brig for unsolicited critiques and personal attacks, not the often expressed ugliness against models in general.

This is correct.

Select Models wrote:

Can you post a link to just one of those samples for me?...

This is a joke, right?

Azimuth Arts wrote:

Just to be clear there are absolutely no rules that prohibit anyone from participating in ANY of the forums.  Sure, some people come into this forum in particular and are disrespectful to models as a group, but the behaviour of some should not preclude other from participating in friendly exchanges, even if we sometimes disagree.

The description of this forum is "Conversations on...well...modeling."  It is not, "conversations among models".  This forum is no more the "models" forum than Photography talk is the "photographers forum".  All may join.

There are frequently insightful comments posted by photographers that are clearly of benefit to models and those should be permitted.  After all on model mayhem it is quite often the photographers who hire the models and know a bit about what happens when casting and shooting with models.

I personally don't have anything to add to threads about topics on grooming (for example) so I stay away, but when models have questions about what photos to post, or information they should include on their profile as someone who uses those to cast models I feel my insight could help them.  As always anyone reading a thread can choose it ignore the comments posted by someone for whatever reason they like.  If they don't believe a photographer's input can help them they should skip to the next person.

One should also keep in mind that a reasonable number of photographers here also are or were models at one time (I am not one such person).

Just my $0.02

I didn't say that photographers were not allowed here. I agree that some photographers have valuable input.  The problem is that many don't, but it doesn't stop them from spreading misinformation, being condescending to models or participating for the sake of poking fun.

As an example from today, there's a thread today where a photographer's input was to post "first world problems" in a thread started by a model.  This is the sort of crap that seems to persist.

salvatori. wrote:
This is incorrect.

Actually this is NOT incorrect.  Over a dozen of the bashers currently in the brig are there for crass, insulting, rude and boorish behavior.  Checkit out and see for yourself...

https://www.modelmayhem.com/probationlog.php

Dekilah wrote:
I will agree with those that have said they have booked work, especially paid work, due to a forum presence. When I was modeling more a lot of people traveled to my area (East TN at that time) and I got offered paid shoots specifically because of my positive forum presence, or at least that is what I was told. I would hope that my look and skills as a model factored in as well ^_~ Similarly, there are people I sought out to work with when I moved because I met them on the forums. And on the other side there have been people who were local to me, or otherwise convenient to shoot with, who I declined shooting with because of their negative presence here on the forums, so it does work both ways.

I like a positive forum presence and will avoid those with negative posts.

Lynn Elizabeth wrote:

Like this?

Just peeking in to say "hi"

Hi!   

GeorgeMann wrote:

Beautiful image, but if you got all those stuffed animals in one of those crane/claw machines this is one heck of an expensive shot.

You're right... it's a very expensive shot... cost me about $5000 in 'claw machine money' to hookup all those stuffed animals... ... JUST KIDDING!... bought around 400 of them at a local thrift store for $50...

Lynn Elizabeth wrote:

Like this?

Just peeking in to say "hi"

Hey LE... thanks for chimin in... nice port!...

Nelia wrote:

Here is an example of a recent post that I felt was particularly insulting to not only "Newbie" Models but also to Amateur / Hobbyist Photographers as well.  You know, if you are not a "Professional" Photographer like me then you must be a perverted "GWC" and you have no skills or talents so of course you work sucks!

https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=898162

Im mean COME ONNNNN... it's a post calling for all GWCs... what more could you expect?...

MoRina wrote:
In my opinion, most models stay out of here because the photographers CAN'T seem to.

bahahaha. c: +1

VikyL wrote:
Here's an excellent example: https://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thre … 719&page=1

3 pages and counting of photographers telling a model she is being too sensitive for being offended about another photographer using a racist term.  Most admit they are unfamiliar with the term, but instead of taking 2 seconds to google (1st hit wikipedia, yup it's racist!), they just decided they knew better.

It was helpful for providing members I would never want to work with....
she's right though, participating in the forums is almost not even worth it, too many trolls, model bashing and ignorance.

VikyL wrote:
I post infrequently because a lot of the threads just devolve into the same handful of photographers bashing models (whom they always define only as young women) in one way or another and there's very little point in trying to get a word in between their diatribes.

The same holds true for models bashing photographers and painting us all with the same brush as lecherous creeps and potential rapists thereby justifying their perceived need for escorts on shoots.

ElisAbEtH wrote:
...I have too much other things to do other than fight and listen to drama.

Same for me except that I have too many things to do.

MoRina wrote:
In my opinion, most models stay out of here because the photographers CAN'T seem to.

This.

It's sad, but the forum started as a place for models and has turned into a place to bitch and moan about models.

Axioma wrote:
Why should they if they do not feel the need? Some amazing models never post, they seem to be doing just fine. They're probably doing some productive shit .

What happened to letting people handle their own business/hobby the way they seem fit?

Btw, if you want to discover new models, there's a neat little thing called 'browse'.

+1 (and +1 to the many others who have said the same thing)




Andrew Thomas Evans
www.andrewthomasevans.com

Herb Way wrote:

Same for me except that I have too many things to do.

Haha, yes that

Select Models wrote:
Do you not realize just how much more exposure your MM port and bio page can receive if you just jump in here (or on any other forum) once in awhile and say HI?

Hi!  I'm Michelle.  I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK.

VikyL wrote:
I post infrequently because a lot of the threads just devolve into the same handful of photographers bashing models (whom they always define only as young women) in one way or another and there's very little point in trying to get a word in between their diatribes.

+1

I not only agree, and support this comment, but, would also assert that it doesn't just apply to models. If you aren't part of the niche' group (there are several), you're nothing.... You could have fantastic ideas, images, etc... Ignored, dismissed... Not ELITE. Quite a few(not all) of the MODS fit this quorum as well. IMHO

~Regards
{|}ichael

salvatori. wrote:
VikyL wrote:

It's not an excuse.  It is literally why I do not participate in the forums.  The general vibe is toxic, and the advice given is often enragingly incorrect.  Moderators only brig for unsolicited critiques and personal attacks, not the often expressed ugliness against models in general.

This is correct.

+++1

Or the fact that there is favoritism... I'm only a member a month and it's blatant.

ElisAbEtH wrote:
Seriously? For someone who has over 30,000 forum posts (OP), you must have stayed away from Soap Box-

I've been on this site since 2005, use to post in forums all the time- now I rarely do.

Yep... never wasted time in Soapbox... and nope... according to your profile... you've been here since 2006... while I have been here since 2005.  A large percentage of posts I've made on these forums have been in the MM 'Events Forum'... where I've hosted hundreds of events in the past 8+ years... including the largest ever event thread on MM... the Sept 2nd 2012 'Cruiseboat Photoshoot'...

Select Models wrote:

Yep... never wasted time in Soapbox... and nope... according to your profile... you've been here since 2006... while I have been here since 2005.  A large percentage of posts I've made on these forums have been in the MM 'Events Forum'... where I've hosted hundreds of events in the past 8+ years... including the largest ever event thread on MM... the Sept 2nd 2012 'Cruiseboat Photoshoot'...

On mine it says member since November 14, 2005.
I can name you tons of models who never post in forums, yet are extremely successful at modeling.
Congrats on holding the largest event thread too btw. Sounds like it was a blast!

Select Models wrote:

VikyL wrote:
It's not an excuse.  It is literally why I do not participate in the forums.  The general vibe is toxic, and the advice given is often enragingly incorrect.  Moderators only brig for unsolicited critiques and personal attacks, not the often expressed ugliness against models in general.

OK... I'm gonna call your bluff on this one girlfren... cause from the huge amount threads I've participated in, I'm not seeing all this 'expressed ugliness, toxic vibes and enragingly incorrect advice'.  Can you post a link to just one of those samples for me?...

1: Count the number of threads in Model Colloquy by models vs the number of threads started by photographers.

2: Count the number of posts here by photographers vs posts by models.

3: Do a spot-check of the posts, and see how many of the posts are by a photographers telling a model that she just doesn't understand.

While few of the posts, by themselves are outright rude (though quite a few are borderline), the sum does make it much less pleasant in general, and I'd suspect it's even more so to those being put on the defensive most of the time. It doesn't have to be the same number of negative as positive: bad 'vibes' can come across with just a small fraction of the positive or neutral posts.

salvatori. wrote:

Select Models wrote:
Can you post a link to just one of those samples for me?...

This is a joke, right?

I do not believe he thinks it's a joke.

Select Models wrote:
Yep... never wasted time in Soapbox... and nope... according to your profile... you've been here since 2006... while I have been here since 2005.  A large percentage of posts I've made on these forums have been in the MM 'Events Forum'... where I've hosted hundreds of events in the past 8+ years... including the largest ever event thread on MM... the Sept 2nd 2012 'Cruiseboat Photoshoot'...

If you're actually trying to get more models to participate, you might listen to what they're saying, and not provide more examples of what they're complaining about.

I can't tell if you're trying to annoy the models, or if you simply cannot see how certain behaviors are perceived, no matter how many models tell you.

I suspect insulting someone for a paragraph or two, but finishing up with a 'just kidding' or a smiley might also be perceived as written, rather than as a joke; the lack of inflection, tone, and body language is quite significant in online forums. Perhaps all the models are misreading the posts of a insistent set of photographers, while having no problem with models' posts and most photographers. Or perhaps some photographers need to learn to communicate without being disparaging, rude, and condescending but 'saving it' with an emoticon.

Samantha Hauxwell wrote:
I'm new I post...such as "Comment for comment" etc....don't get a reply though

Hi by the way

Same. Usually when I start a thread I don't get a reply for a few hours and no more than 3 people comment in it but others start threads and they get pages of replies.....

spencer udell wrote:
Hello, My name is Spencer and it is wonderful to meet y'all!

Hi Spencer nice to meet you too!

Nick record wrote:

Same. Usually when I start a thread I don't get a reply for a few hours and no more than 3 people comment in it but others start threads and they get pages of replies.....

It's ALL about the thread participants Nick.  The OP is just the snowball that starts the avalanche...

Michelle Genevieve wrote:

Hi!  I'm Michelle.  I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK.

The word on the street is that you are apt to 'sleep all night and work all day'.

Samantha Hauxwell wrote:
I'm new I post...such as "Comment for comment" etc....don't get a reply though

Hi by the way

Hi Samantha, I do like your PF.

Theresa Manchester wrote:
Been on here since 2007 and only 80 some posts. Apparently my portfolio is well circulated "enough" lol but you're totally right, now I'm trying to get more exposure for when I hit the road again. Taking my first "break" since being basically a full time traveler for 3 years!! Plenty of time to promote, am i right?

You're RIGHT... and guess what?... you've been here SIX years and this is the first time I've ever viewed your MM port... guess it pays to post in forums huh... ... great work by the way...

ASYLUM - Photo wrote:
I'm of the opinion that the specific forums should be limited to the profile types. So, models only posting in the model forum, but still have it readable by members. That way Photographers can *learn* from model discussions, and vice versa. Keep General Industry for topics that pertain to all profile types.

I can understand your point of view RE 'learning from discussions'... BUT... what you're recommending here is a form of censorship... something that NEVER goes over well on MM...