ontherocks wrote:
regarding date rape drugs, how long do they stay in your system? seems like you would have to hit the hospital asap to get checked?

Depends on the drug and the health of the person who ingests it. Most aren't inherently life threatening, you don't HAVE to seek medical attention if you've been drugged. Most people wind up in the hospital because someone around them notices they've been drugged and takes them, not because they were coherent enough during to take themselves in or willing to check themselves in after the fact.

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
Why do people keep accusing him of alleged improper behavior 20+ years afterwards? He is a beloved figure and certainly a better role model for young black men than they have these days. Nothing was ever proved and I assume no real evidence either. And when Janice Dickinson chimes in I feel I can only assume people are just after his money.

I wouldn't say he's a better role model then the rest. If any of these allegations are true then he's no role model and there's plenty out there who are and have way more to offer.

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
And when Janice Dickinson chimes in I feel I can only assume people are just after his money.

Definitely agree. If it really mattered they would had something RIGHT after it happened.

Laura UnBound wrote:
Depends on the drug and the health of the person who ingests it. Most aren't inherently life threatening, you don't HAVE to seek medical attention if you've been drugged. Most people wind up in the hospital because someone around them notices they've been drugged and takes them, not because they were coherent enough during to take themselves in or willing to check themselves in after the fact.

ontherocks wrote:
ok but if you think you are a drug rape victim shouldn't you zip to the hospital (or have someone zip you if you aren't coherent enough) for drug and rape tests? seems like it's much better to have some evidence so it doesn't become just he-said, she-said.

There are many unreported cases of rape due to guilt/embarrassment/shame.

ontherocks wrote:
ok but if you think you are a drug rape victim shouldn't you zip to the hospital (or have someone zip you if you aren't coherent enough) for drug and rape tests? seems like it's much better to have some evidence so it doesn't become just he-said, she-said.

Yes, that would be better.

welcome to victim blaming 101. Welcome to rape culture.

Yes, they should go to the hospital, yes they should go to the police, no they don't always do that, no it's not so that they can make shit up or lie about it later. It's because they're hurt, and scared, and in shock, it's because they just had an unthinkable violent crime committed against them, they've been violated and it's probably going to scar them for the rest of their lives. they want to crawl into a hole and die, not go be questioned and poked and prodded and examined, making them feel even more violated and exposed. They're especially woried that people won't believe them, and a common feeling post-sexual assault is that it's the victims fault. You really don't see how maybe for the first few days post-attack when it's most crucial to gather evidence and file a report, it's also the most difficult times for the victims to do anything even remotely close to rational and clear-headed? They're busy going over in their head every second of every day what they could have done differently to not get raped. Seriously, teach yourself something about survivors before saying stupid things like "wouldn't it be a good idea to go to the hospital?"  Yes, it would be a fantastic idea to get checked out and make sure they stay alive....except many wish they weren't alive after that. They don't want to sit in a hospital bed and have someone tell them they're lucky to be alive, or that they're perfectly fine now that they drugs have passed their systems, when they were just raped.

Laura UnBound wrote:

Yes, that would be better.

welcome to victim blaming 101. Welcome to rape culture.

Yes, they should go to the hospital, yes they should go to the police, no they don't always do that, no it's not so that they can make shit up or lie about it later. It's because they're hurt, and scared, and in shock, it's because they just had an unthinkable violent crime committed against them, they've been violated and it's probably going to scar them for the rest of their lives. they want to crawl into a hole and die, not go be questioned and poked and prodded and examined, making them feel even more violated and exposed. They're especially woried that people won't believe them, and a common feeling post-sexual assault is that it's the victims fault. You really don't see how maybe for the first few days post-attack when it's most crucial to gather evidence and file a report, it's also the most difficult times for the victims to do anything even remotely close to rational and clear-headed? They're busy going over in their head every second of every day what they could have done differently to not get raped. Seriously, teach yourself something about survivors before saying stupid things like "wouldn't it be a good idea to go to the hospital?"  Yes, it would be a fantastic idea to get checked out and make sure they stay alive....except many wish they weren't alive after that. They don't want to sit in a hospital bed and have someone tell them they're lucky to be alive, or that they're perfectly fine now that they drugs have passed their systems, when they were just raped.

This.

ontherocks wrote:
ok but if you think you are a drug rape victim shouldn't you zip to the hospital (or have someone zip you if you aren't coherent enough) for drug and rape tests? seems like it's much better to have some evidence so it doesn't become just he-said, she-said.

You're thinking with "logic", and some things in life you just cannot apply logic to. If you ever walked a mile in their shoes, you'd know better than to say something like that.

KelliOnLineGlamourNude  wrote:

I wouldn't say he's a better role model then the rest. If any of these allegations are true then he's no role model and there's plenty out there who are and have way more to offer.

What are the alternatives? Kim Kardashian's husband, Tracy Morgan who is a walking stereotype (respectfully since I know he's recovering), Steve Harvey who is a game show host largely? I'm a white guy so can't assume a white rolemodel will do but who do young black guys have to look to besides rappers?

I know sexual assault is devastating and it might not immediately occur to get checked out and collect evidence, but still waiting decades to push for a lawsuit? Rape is unfortunately very common and as I understand it there are large rooms full of rape kits that are a long way from being tested so it isn't like nobody takes the same to get checked.

I just think it is horrible to accuse anyone of such a horrible crime without proof that anything happened. If some people are bought off that is their ethical problem. But no matter ones wealth or power proof is proof and I'm not aware of any.

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:

What are the alternatives? Kim Kardashian's husband, Tracy Morgan who is a walking stereotype (respectfully since I know he's recovering), Steve Harvey who is a game show host largely? I'm a white guy so can't assume a white rolemodel will do but who do young black guys have to look to besides rappers?

I know sexual assault is devastating and it might not immediately occur to get checked out and collect evidence, but still waiting decades to push for a lawsuit? Rape is unfortunately very common and as I understand it there are large rooms full of rape kits that are a long way from being tested so it isn't like nobody takes the same to get checked.

I just think it is horrible to accuse anyone of such a horrible crime without proof that anything happened. If some people are bought off that is their ethical problem. But no matter ones wealth or power proof is proof and I'm not aware of any.

Why are we so bent on making pop culture figures role models in the first place? I mean there are plenty good people working in showbiz and I understand that it's so easy to soak up music and TV and movies and sports instead of like...read a book on history...but why on earth are we so insistent that these people be shining beacons of light for us?

Robb Mann wrote:
The court of public opinion has already found him guilty. That may be the closest to justice his alleged victims ever get. I don't see anyone 'winning' here.

Why do alleged victims need justice? I'm of the opinion that only victims need justice (not that it helps them recover any) and the only way to actually make them victims is to find the alleged perp guilty in a court of law. Waiting 20-30 years to report these things doesn't exactly help do that.

R80 wrote:
I'd hate to believe it was true.  As a kid, a buddy and I would rush out and buy his latest comedy record then rush home to listen to it, usually rolling on the floor in laughter as we did.  Later, I watched him diligently in "I Spy" with Robert Culp.

He built a reputation as being one of the few comedians to never use fowl language and later had that "fatherly image."  Heck, I remember reading about him having a shit fit when the hot actress that played his daughter Denise, did a topless scene in a movie.  (I'm gettin' old...can't remember her name right now.)

I just saw tonight that TVland has canceled all upcoming reruns of his show and whatever he had in the works, movie or whatever, is gone.

Lisa Bonet in the movie Angel Heart.

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
who do young black guys have to look to besides rappers?

Keegan-Michael Key (Key & Peele)
Kevin Peele (Key & Peele)
Wyatt Cenac (Daily Show, etc)
Jaden Smith (Karate Kid remake, etc)
Dayo Okeniyi (The Hunger Games)

Just off the top of my head...

HOWEVER... I strongly recommend NOT making this about Cosby's race and/or making it a "black people" issue. This is about a famous person being accused of rape. Let's keep it about that.

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
who do young black guys have to look to besides rappers?

I heard that the president of the united states and the leader of the free world is black.

But don't quote me on that.

Kickfight is right.  This isn't about race.  This is about privilege and those with it who think they can do anything they want.  And how our society is sick of this practice.

Eventually, it'll filter all the way up to our politicians and government, but for now, we're vilifying actors and sports players.

Good Egg Productions wrote:

I heard that the president of the united states and the leader of the free world is black.

But don't quote me on that.

Kickfight is right.  This isn't about race.  This is about privilege and those with it who think they can do anything they want.  And how our society is sick of this practice.

Eventually, it'll filter all the way up to our politicians and government, but for now, we're vilifying actors and sports players.

Did the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" go out the window because he is a celebrity?  From what I've seen so far, the accusers come across, imho, as a bunch of money-grubbers.

Laura UnBound wrote:

Why are we so bent on making pop culture figures role models in the first place? I mean there are plenty good people working in showbiz and I understand that it's so easy to soak up music and TV and movies and sports instead of like...read a book on history...but why on earth are we so insistent that these people be shining beacons of light for us?

I agree they shouldn't be. Ideally our politicians should be worth looking up to but clearly they aren't up for the task. The pope has said and done some promising things but I don't think most want to achieve the standards  as high as is of the clergy. lol. Who that is know isn't a celebrity of one kind or another?

Good Egg Productions wrote:

I heard that the president of the united states and the leader of the free world is black.

But don't quote me on that.

Kickfight is right.  This isn't about race.  This is about privilege and those with it who think they can do anything they want.  And how our society is sick of this practice.

Eventually, it'll filter all the way up to our politicians and government, but for now, we're vilifying actors and sports players.

I don't think people look up to the president as much as in previous generations. And I fear due to racial reasons this president hasn't been as effective as he could have been when working with so many white republicans as he could have had it not been their primary goal to defeat him no what of their ideas he may agree with but I digress. Getting back to celebrity in general there aren't many that inspire people to do better. They just mostly make their millions and push photographers away. lol. Hugh Jackman I hear is pretty  awesome though. lol.

mikell wrote:
Soap Box is close and another thread on this subject was locked for going there

Let's keep this one open.

The word is closed, d at the end. Mr. Soapbox is closed Nazi.

Mad Hatter Imagery wrote:
Why do people keep accusing him of alleged improper behavior 20+ years afterwards?

Because that shit doesn't go away with time. I'm not saying that he did it because we don't know until he is proven guilty but, in general, time doesn't make doesn't make terrible things right. If those women were raped I imagine how they would want to speak up before the rapist dies.

When you ask question like that I wonder about what all the mercury did to your brain.