Chase West wrote:
Any advice? Anyone know the law around this stuff?

First piece of advice: don't ask about shooting minors on a MM forum unless you want premature hair loss or a good laugh.

Second, it's not up to us to know the law. I would advise you to seek it out yourself, as the law varies from state to state. Do your research, or consult with those whose job it is to know the law. Because a huge majority of the answers here proclaiming to know "the law" will probably know jack about the law in your specific jurisdiction.

Third, search function. This has been covered before. And it'll be covered again. And I'm betting that this thread will end up like every other thread on this topic: off-topic and full of paranoia and misinformation.

Chase West wrote:
I get the feeling though that the girl is looking for kind of a Miley Cyrus / Vanity Fair type of thing.

Perhaps you should ask what she wants to shoot instead of having just a feeling/assuming?Discuss it with mom,as well. There are far more revealing things shot by fashion models her age and even younger in magazines and such every day.

Chase West wrote:
...the girl is looking for kind of a Miley Cyrus / Vanity Fair type of thing.

Any advice? Anyone know the law around this stuff?

There was nothing illegal about the shoot, the media just blew things out of proportion. As long as the shoot is not sexual in content you are in good standing.

KookingProductions wrote:
Don't do it! Go as far as swimsuits and that's it.

If the girl gets some sort of exposure later, and your photos surface. If the mom and daughter decide to say that you pressure them into doing it just to save-face and career, and you dont have any sort of big rep. to back you up. You'll be in deep doo-doo, not necessarily sued but you'll have a bad rep. and not a lot of people will want to work with you after that. Let's just say you dont want to ruin your rep.

LOL nice. Alex can I buy a clue.

Michael R  Kihn Studios wrote:
Best advise
Don't ask her to take off her bra or panties

Crikey, I guess that means the fashion industry is in big trouble then?

Chase West wrote:
A 17yo model contacted me for a TFP shoot. She's wanting to build her port and says her mom is supportive and would come along. I get the feeling though that the girl is looking for kind of a Miley Cyrus / Vanity Fair type of thing.

Any advice? Anyone know the law around this stuff?

Lot of good advice here; some bad, too though.

1. Talk to an attorney and learn the law.

2. Have her signature, her mother's signature, and a copy of her ID attached to the model release.

3. Have her mother present at the shoot.

4. Keep it tasteful and age-appropriate.

5. If mom objects to anything, the shoot is over.

6. Relax and have fun. Kids are nice to work with.

Oh, and don't touch; but that just professionalism.

SLE Photography wrote:
BTW, WHY is this in "Model Matters" and not General or Photography?

Because I figured they'd ask why it was in Photography since it was about Models. Sorry to be pushing so many buttons with this topic!

SW Hanna - So Cal wrote:
There was nothing illegal about the shoot, the media just blew things out of proportion. As long as the shoot is not sexual in content you are in good standing.

But that is the sort of thing a photographer has to consider - even if it's totally innocent, it can (and sometimes does) get blown out of proportion.  It's not something that just might happen, it's something that has happened a few times.  It's one of those things where if nothing happens, all is cool...but if it does get misunderstood, etc. - it may be a real hassle.

It's only smart to consider all the possible ramifications before making a decision.

Chase West wrote:
Because I figured they'd ask why it was in Photography since it was about Models. Sorry to be pushing so many buttons with this topic!

Photography is for asking for advice from photographers.
This forum is for models to ask advice.

Chase West wrote:
A 17yo model contacted me for a TFP shoot. She's wanting to build her port and says her mom is supportive and would come along. I get the feeling though that the girl is looking for kind of a Miley Cyrus / Vanity Fair type of thing.

Any advice? Anyone know the law around this stuff?

Use common sense, and talk to them about what they want out of it. Nothing too different than shooting a 26 year old model for regular fashion stuff really, other than most of MM thinks every single model needs to be posed in thongs and with their butt up - which more than likely wouldn't fly here.

Shit, I shot a model who was 17 (or maybe 16 at the time, I forgot) with her shirt unbuttoned and just wearing black underwear bottoms (black shirt too). Not a big deal at all, they didn't turn out, but I'm not in trouble either.

Again, just use common sense, keep it in a more fashion style, and you should be fine.

Chase West wrote:
A 17yo model contacted me for a TFP shoot. She's wanting to build her port and says her mom is supportive and would come along. I get the feeling though that the girl is looking for kind of a Miley Cyrus / Vanity Fair type of thing.

Any advice? Anyone know the law around this stuff?

Don't do it.  Even if her mom says, "Yes, you have my permission," you'll end up in trouble.  And don't even think of working with the 17 year old alone.

KookingProductions wrote:
Don't do it! Go as far as swimsuits and that's it.

What do you mean "go as far as?" There is more to photography than getting a model naked, or getting them undressed, or shooting them in sexy clothes...

KookingProductions wrote:
If the girl gets some sort of exposure later, and your photos surface. If the mom and daughter decide to say that you pressure them into doing it just to save-face and career, and you dont have any sort of big rep. to back you up. You'll be in deep doo-doo, not necessarily sued but you'll have a bad rep. and not a lot of people will want to work with you after that. Let's just say you dont want to ruin your rep.

LMAO it's this type of advice that's going to drive me away from here.

Personality Imaging wrote:
Forget it.  Just not worth the risk.

LMAO - NEXT!

Kelly Von Kay wrote:
Trust you gut.  not everything should be solved with others' opinions.

which is why this is the WORST topic to ask on here...

okbyme wrote:
Don't take this wrong, but you really need to be a LOT more experienced in shooting models before jumping into such a situation.
TOO many negatives for too few positives.

What do you mean? All you have to do is not act like a dirty old pervert, make the model do really sexual poses, and keep your dick in your pants... I'm sure that does take pratice for some, but for others it's natural.

Through Garys Eyes wrote:
But that is the sort of thing a photographer has to consider - even if it's totally innocent, it can (and sometimes does) get blown out of proportion.  It's not something that just might happen, it's something that has happened a few times.  It's one of those things where if nothing happens, all is cool...but if it does get misunderstood, etc. - it may be a real hassle.

It's only smart to consider all the possible ramifications before making a decision.

You should watch the South Park episide where they were running from global warming... It's about as funny and sad as the doomsday advice given on here.

ashowpeh wrote:
DON'T DO IT DON'T DO IT DON'T DO IT DON'T IT DON'T DO IT DON'T DO IT DON'T DO IT DON'T DO IT DON'T DO IT DON'T DO IT DON'T DO IT DON'T DO IT DON'T DO IT DON'T DO IT DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're right, I didn't take your post seriously.

Joe WoW Photos wrote:
Make the Mom get naked instead!  That's usually the driving force behind parents that 'allow' (IE Push) their minor children into Nude or Sexy Modeling, Laff.

I like you!

Xpozure wrote:
Yep....What they said. DON'T DO IT. To many opportunities to get in a big pile of legal s**t down the track if the photos surface and they want to create any dramas.

You felt unsure about the shoot to start with..Go with your instinct and stay away. Wait till she's 18.

Rod

Again, there is more to photography than getting someone naked, doing sexual poses, and thong strings in asses. Again, (not really poitning fingers) a lot of MM hasn't got this memo.

Plus you can get in just as much trouble shooting a 23 year old who makes up a story about you trying to rape her while doing a bondage shoot.

Ruben Sanchez wrote:
Don't do it.  Even if her mom says, "Yes, you have my permission," you'll end up in trouble.  And don't even think of working with the 17 year old alone.

LMAO, whatever man.



Under 17, alone with her, and nothing happened!

Through Garys Eyes wrote:

But that is the sort of thing a photographer has to consider - even if it's totally innocent, it can (and sometimes does) get blown out of proportion.  It's not something that just might happen, it's something that has happened a few times.  It's one of those things where if nothing happens, all is cool...but if it does get misunderstood, etc. - it may be a real hassle.

It's only smart to consider all the possible ramifications before making a decision.

Its always smart to consider all the angles in any business, that being said 70% of all general "portrait" photographers make a good portion of their living doing kids and seniors, I'm sure the majority of them are "minors".

Not to mention all the commercial chain portrait studios that almost exclusively do "minors"...

I cant believe people take this and run with it like that, mention a photograph and "underage" in the same sentence....wow... makes you wonder about all the people that immediately attach "sexual" to it.

Send her to me, I'll do all the miley cirus'ish shots she wants, the girl was fully clothed and looking pretty, man ever see any Calvin Klein ads?

Kevin_Connery wrote:
Threads about Minor Models

....

I'm not going to go though them tonight, but how many of those were actually on topic and free of a lot of the doomsday sky is falling stuff?


I love this thread!

Makes me really feel like a pervert when I shoot this 13 or 14 year old in a few weeks!

CGI Images wrote:
Its always smart to consider all the angles in any business, that being said 70% of all general "portrait" photographers make a good portion of their living doing kids and seniors, I'm sure the majority of them are "minors".

But from what the OP is saying - she's not asking for "portraits".

Not to mention all the commercial chain portrait studios that almost exclusively do "minors"...

And they are "commercial chain portrait studios" with public access studios - not free-lance photographers on the internet shooting out of their homes" [Note: with this statement I'm not trying to infer that there is something wrong with "free-lance photographers on the internet shooting out of their homes" - but the general public does not perceive them the same way as portrait photographers at the mall or with free standing "glass front" studios.  I'm not saying that their perception is right - I'm just saying it's reality, and saying they shouldn't feel that way is not going to change their perceptions.]

I cant believe people take this and run with it like that, mention a photograph and "underage" in the same sentence....wow... makes you wonder about all the people that immediately attach "sexual" to it.

Send her to me, I'll do all the miley cirus'ish shots she wants, the girl was fully clothed and looking pretty, man ever see any Calvin Klein ads?

Tell me one thing in my statement that is NOT true.  You can't help that people overreact, and if they overreact strongly enough - it's not going to be pleasant for the photographer.  You simply cannot tell me that it HAS NOT happened!  All you have to do is pick up a newspaper or watch the news.

CGI Images wrote:

Its always smart to consider all the angles in any business, that being said 70% of all general "portrait" photographers make a good portion of their living doing kids and seniors, I'm sure the majority of them are "minors".

Not to mention all the commercial chain portrait studios that almost exclusively do "minors"...

I cant believe people take this and run with it like that, mention a photograph and "underage" in the same sentence....wow... makes you wonder about all the people that immediately attach "sexual" to it.

Send her to me, I'll do all the miley cirus'ish shots she wants, the girl was fully clothed and looking pretty, man ever see any Calvin Klein ads?

CGI,

I can't believe the amount of bad information and myths circulating on these forums (not to mention the complete spinelessness) - one of the biggest one's being that underage models are "kryptonite" for a photographer!

OP - yes, why don't you send that model to me or CGI if you're feeling weak-kneed about this?

Andrew Keshan wrote:
Is it my imagination, or are all the threads on photographing underage models coming from America?   Makes me wonder, what the hell is the problem over there?!  The rest of the world realises and knows that a large percentage of fashion models start out under 18.  Get with the rest of the world America and wake up!   

Of course you can't shoot anything sexual or with full nude, but that's just common sense.... So I don't understand the constant stupid questions about it.

And if the scenario being discussed here was fashion - you would be completely correct and I'd agree with you.  It IS accepted in the fashion world.

[And part of why it's less of a problem in the fashion world is that you are much more likely to have a "team" involved in the shoots: photographers, stylists, MUA's, clients, etc.  The problems usually come in when it's just a model and a photographer shooting "sexy" pictures on spec.]

Dixie Lux wrote:
I started shooting when I was 17.  I brought my mother along, and she signed the releases with me.  It worked out fine.  Unexpectedly, I've actually had photographers request my mom's presence even now that I'm legal, just because she was so helpful during shoots (helping me dress without messing up my makeup, assisting the photographer, making sure no one disturbs the shoot)!

How do you know the Miley Cyrus-esque shoot is what the girl is looking for?  You wouldn't be doing anything illegal by taking non-sexual, slightly risque photos of her, but if you're worried about that, just shoot her fully clothed.  Talk to her mother, maybe?  I used to schedule meetings between me, my mother and the photographer beforehand to discuss the details of the shoot.

Very good advice!