Teddy Tran wrote:
A friend of mine brought up a interesting question about my avatar. The question is it is against the law to shoot a minor in a implied manner. My avatar has a model that is underage. In the original photo, the model is covered wearing boy shorts and a bra. I then made a water dress and covered her in it, at no point was the model ever nude. I would like some info to shed light on this subject.

Miley did it with whatsherface.  And she apparently was nude.

Christopher Hartman wrote:

Miley did it with whatsherface.  And she apparently was nude.

Exactly what I was thinking when he brought it up

Son Appareil wrote:
Very, very unwise to be displaying an underage Model that in any way inplies she was or may have been nude at the time of the shoot.

Possibly illegal, but with no doubt poor judgment.

I disagree.  And based on the style of the shoot, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that she COULD have been nude and our justice system wouldn't care.

Teddy Tran wrote:
Exactly what I was thinking when he brought it up

I wanna see a bigger version though.  The small version looks very well done though.

Teddy Tran wrote:
A friend of mine brought up a interesting question. The question is it is against the law to shoot a minor in a implied manner. I work with a model that is underage. In the original photo, the model is covered wearing boy shorts and a bra. I then made a water dress and covered her in it, at no point was the model ever nude. I would like some info to shed light on this subject.

It Depends.

Threads about Minor Models

General Industry > Question on shooting minors...
General Industry > 17 = trouble?? WTF!!
General Industry > Photographing minors without a consent release (4+ pages)
General Industry > shooting underage models (NON-nude, not implied)
General Industry > shooting a minor????
General Industry > So this underage girl wants a shoot.. (3+ pages)
General Industry > Photographing minors
General Industry > OH no. Minor's parents left!
General Industry > Under Age Models (Why are they even on MM?)
General Industry > Shooting Models Under 18....
Model Matters > Underage Models (3+ pages)
Model Matters > working with minors
Model Matters > Underage models for implied shoots?!
Model Colloquy > Legalities, Being a Minor, and General Ignorance
Photography Talk > Shooting an Underage model - Rules and Regulation (Casual/Old Navy)
Photography Talk > Ever feel baited by a minor?
Photography Talk > Minor situation...
Photography Talk > Legal issues while working with minors?
Photography Talk > Shooting with minors (Laws)
Photography Talk > Minors and other legal issues. Criminal vs. Civil
Photography Talk > underage models
Photography Talk > Underage models? Never again.. (6+ pages)
Photography Talk > One Minor Model Thread To Rule Them All...
Photography Talk > Models underage... (who works with them?)
Photography Talk > 17 Year old Models (Headshots, portraits, etc.)

Nude, Suggestive, Risque, Sexy, or Similar
Photography Talk > Need advice for underage shoot (Miley Cyrus/Vanity Fair-style)
General Industry > Minors shooting lignerie? General Industry > Underage models. (“sexy” photos requested by model)
General Industry > Suggested nudes (…of an underage model)
General Industry > Underage Model (Suicide girl-style, 5+ pages)
General Industry > Implied nude with minors? (5+ pages)
General Industry > Photographing Nude Minors...... (5+ pages)
General Industry > Under-age models & "implied"
General Industry > Dilema..!! (Art nudes w/16 y/o model in UK)
General Industry > What state in the US is underage... (…nude images acceptable?) (5+ pages)
General Industry > Shooting a 16 y/o nude, but covered sparsely? (6 pages, locked)
Model Matters > Underage models. How sexy is too sexy?
Model Matters > Underage model nudity? (3+ pages)
Model Matters > Underage models & glamour/pin-up/lingerie?
Model Matters > Minors working implide
Model Matters > Underage Lingerie Shooting
Model Matters > how young is to young?? (“…sexy pics done hand bras…”) (3+ pages)
Model Matters > Underage sister posing nude for pro photogs! (8+ pages)
Photography Talk > Underage lingerie modeling (3+ pages)
Photography Talk > Another Question about Minors!!! (Semi-nude)
Photography Talk > Legal age to shoot nudes (3+ pages)
Photography Talk > When I work with minors... (lingerie requested by parent)
Photography Talk > isn't teen glamour illegal? (Trueteenbabes.com) (4+ pages)
Photography Talk > Implied and underage model (7+ pages)
Photography Talk > Am I being set up? (2+ pages)

General Industry > Underage Fashion Models posing Nude for Euro Vogue (5+ pages)
Photography Talk > T Magazine & Paolo Roversi & Underage nudes

State Laws regarding Child Pornography or Nudity (USA)
State Child Pornography Statutes (PDF document)

Federal Laws regarding Child Pornography (USA)
All are part of Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 110 (Index)

Note that nudity is not automatically included, and that clothed images can be included.

2251. Sexual exploitation of children
§ 2252. Certain activities relating to material involving the sexual exploitation of minors
§ 2252A. Certain activities relating to material constituting or containing child pornography
§ 2256. Definitions for chapter
§ 2257. Record keeping requirements


One excellent rule to follow is to avoid making--or listening to--proclamations about things where you don’t understand the facts

It helps a lot if you:

Understand the society under discussion.
Understand the laws in that society.
Understand the reasons for both of the above, and the penalties for violating either cultural norms or the law, while recognizing that the laws are not the same as the cultural mores.

There are many instances where unlawful activities are widely accepted (e.g. speeding, changing lanes without signaling, tax evasion, copyright violations), and many instances where lawful activities are anathema (or are proclaimed to be anathema...) to many (e.g. adultery, adult pornography).

This is an area where many peoples' beliefs are at odds with the law, yet many of them insist that There Is A Law, apparently because they feel there should be one.

Some kinds of photography of minors are unlawful--some clothed, and some unclothed.
Some kinds of photography of minors are lawful--some clothed, and some unclothed.

Photons 2 Pixels Images wrote:
Talk to a lawyer. Only a lawyer can answer your question with the right legal advice.

When you're sick, you see a doctor not a hypochondriac. When you need legal advice, see a lawyer.

No need. There are no laws against implied minor nudity. There no laws against minor nudity. There are laws against depicting minors in a lewd and sexual manner regardless of nudity.

Teddy Tran wrote:
A friend of mine brought up a interesting question. The question is it is against the law to shoot a minor in a implied manner. Hypothetically, if the model below was underage, would it be illegal to photograph her in this way. I would like some info to shed light on this subject.

If you have to ask.. That's your answer.    It doesn't matter if it's legal or not.  Actually it's quite illegal to mess with any sort of minor’s that would be deemed inappropriate. 

I heard of how some pedophiles tried to get around the laws by retouching a child’s face on a woman’s body…sick @#$@#.. they got busted.. it’s illegal. 

How much do you have in your budget for legal funds?

KevinMcGowanPhotography wrote:
Actually it's quite illegal to mess with any sort of minor’s that would be deemed inappropriate.

Please don't use words like illegal and then follow it up with vague words like "mess with" and "inappropriate".

I highly doubt you will find any laws that use those terms.

Teddy Tran wrote:

Exactly what I was thinking when he brought it up

I doubt the model's Miley and he ain't Annie Liebovitz and I'll bet money it's not for Vanity Fair... don't assume anything from THAT situation..

PYPI FASHION wrote:
Please don't use words like illegal and then follow it up with vague words like "mess with" and "inappropriate".

I highly doubt you will find any laws that use those terms.

I aplogize for not being a legal wiz.. but I think you get the point..

It's a very slippery slope.. (edit)

KevinMcGowanPhotography wrote:

I aplogize for not being a legal wiz.. but I think you get the point..

It's a very slippery slope.. (edit)

No I don't get your point. You made a specific statement about something being illegal. If you don't know it to be true, don't state it as fact.

Teddy Tran wrote:
A friend of mine brought up a interesting question. The question is it is against the law to shoot a minor in a implied manner. Hypothetically, if the model below was underage, would it be illegal to photograph her in this way. I would like some info to shed light on this subject.

Depends where you are but in the vast majority of cases, no. Not if it's like the example you posted, it would not be illegal.

M2 Photography Studios wrote:
you are "contributing to the delinquency" no matter if she is nude or not.

You really need to do a little research on the term "contributing to the delinquency of a minor."  It is clear that you don't know the legal definition of the offense.

KevinMcGowanPhotography wrote:
I doubt the model's Miley and he ain't Annie Liebovitz and I'll bet money it's not for Vanity Fair... don't assume anything from THAT situation..

Comparing a model to Miley or a photographer to Annie has little to do with the original question.  There's a vast amount of people who may think Miley & Annie aren't that hot.  Therefore, rather the image gets used for "vanity fair" or if the photographer throws darts at it in his garage is beside the point.  Making comments like the above is a round about way to state in public that you think the image sucks - which is a hit below the belt & has nothing to do with whats being discussed in the forum.

M2 Photography Studios wrote:
If the model has a parent at the shoot, which is law for under 17 in Georgia, then you are fine. If no parent/guardian is present, you are "contributing to the delinquency" no matter if she is nude or not.

This is completely incorrect.

Having a parent present at a shoot will not protect a photographer in any way. If you take a photo of a minor that is deemed to be illegal (for whatever reason), then the presence of a parent doesn't make it legal.

Think of it like this. Say you assault a minor, break her knee caps, and take all her money. If her parent allows it, does that make it legal? No. It makes the parent an accomplice in your illegal act.

M2 Photography Studios wrote:
If the model has a parent at the shoot, which is law for under 17 in Georgia, then you are fine. If no parent/guardian is present, you are "contributing to the delinquency" no matter if she is nude or not.

Scott Aitken wrote:
Having a parent present at a shoot will not protect a photographer in any way. If you take a photo of a minor that is deemed to be illegal (for whatever reason), then the presence of a parent doesn't make it legal.

OK, but what makes you think that the photo he is suggesting would be illegal?

Joshua Sikorski wrote:
how hard could it be to just find an older model ....

This situation wasn't about me not being able to find an older model. The model I photographed is a friend, shes was covered and a guardian was present. I just didn't think about it being implied if I photoshopped a water dress on her until a friend brought it up. I wanted her to have a water dress image as the girl above received. It seems bit controversial so we decided not to edit her pictures.

KevinMcGowanPhotography wrote:
I doubt the model's Miley and he ain't Annie Liebovitz and I'll bet money it's not for Vanity Fair... don't assume anything from THAT situation..

Yet you claimed that it was "quite illegal"; are you now saying that it's not illegal if the people involved are famous? Or would it only be 'slightly' illegal? 'Just barely' illegal? Or is it, in fact, not illegal at all?

I'll paraphrase a section of my earlier post:

One excellent rule to follow is to avoid making proclamations about things where you don’t understand the facts.

It helps a lot if you:

Understand the society under discussion.
Understand the laws in that society.
Understand the reasons for both of the above, and the penalties for violating either cultural norms or the law, while recognizing that the laws are not the same as the cultural mores.

There are many instances where unlawful activities are widely accepted (e.g. speeding, changing lanes without signaling, tax evasion, copyright violations), and many instances where lawful activities are anathema (or are proclaimed to be anathema...) to many (e.g. adultery, adult pornography).

This is an area where many peoples' beliefs are at odds with the law, yet many of them insist that There Is A Law, apparently because they feel there should be one.

Kevin Connery wrote:
There are many instances where unlawful activities are widely accepted (e.g. speeding, changing lanes without signaling, tax evasion, copyright violations), and many instances where lawful activities are anathema (or are proclaimed to be anathema...) to many (e.g. adultery, adult pornography).

This is an area where many peoples' beliefs are at odds with the law, yet many of them insist that There Is A Law, apparently because they feel there should be one.

So, are you suggesting that there is or is not a law that prohibits the type(s) of photography and photographic displays that the OP asked about?

M2 Photography Studios wrote:
If the model has a parent at the shoot, which is law for under 17 in Georgia, then you are fine. If no parent/guardian is present, you are "contributing to the delinquency" no matter if she is nude or not.

Citation? What law(s) in Georgia require a parent to be at a photoshoot? What laws make it permissible to shoot a minor differently when a parent is present?

Kevin Connery wrote:
There are many instances where unlawful activities are widely accepted (e.g. speeding, changing lanes without signaling, tax evasion, copyright violations), and many instances where lawful activities are anathema (or are proclaimed to be anathema...) to many (e.g. adultery, adult pornography).

This is an area where many peoples' beliefs are at odds with the law, yet many of them insist that There Is A Law, apparently because they feel there should be one.

Stephen Markman wrote:
So, are you suggesting that there is or is not a law that prohibits the type(s) of photography and photographic displays that the OP asked about?

That is correct: I am suggesting that there is OR is not a law that prohibits the type(s) of photography and photographic displays that the OP asked about.

I did not indicate whether there was or was not such a law. I stated that there are instances when people's beliefs are different than what the law indicates.

Please accept my apologies if it was unclear.

Christopher Hartman wrote:
Miley did it with whatsherface.  And she apparently was nude.

actually, she was wearing a backless dress...

Teddy Tran wrote:
A friend of mine brought up a interesting question. The question is it is against the law to shoot a minor in a implied manner. Hypothetically, if the model below was underage, would it be illegal to photograph her in this way. I would like some info to shed light on this subject.

Dude!  Get away from any implied or nude image of minor!!!  Don't try to manipulate any images that will transform or suggest implied.

  Rather it is legal or not, that is another matter but avoid any hassle later on by not shooting or manipulating images that will suggest implied or nude of minor.

  All it takes is some one (might not be her family member) that make big deal out of it and blame, all the sudden you are being watched bye police.

Here are some crazy minor links:  Might not be related to yours stuff though.

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/1 … faces.html

http://kaganof.com/kagablog/2009/01/16/ … hemselves/

Doug Swinskey wrote:

actually, she was wearing a backless dress...

But, Brooke Shields was 14 and topless for Jordache Jeans many years ago...and it was a National Campaign